but what you don't understand is that the government operates like the scientific community. In the United States there is a separation of church and state. The church and state being talked about is a religious state based upon Christianity - not New Age Metaphysical proclamations. This is where congress, the senate and the white house will crush Greer's movement. I don't understand how you fail to realize that.

Already responded to this same exact point many times. Congress, senate and the white house are a SIDESHOW to the MIC. Many of them WANT to fight for Disclosure, but they are TERRIFIED of the MIC. And there's tonnes of evidence to support the existence of the MIC.

And it's interesting how you keep ignoring the existence of the MIC and how they factor into EVERYTHING, and just keep going "the government won't take Greer seriously.....". Maybe because you're employed by the MIC?

To ME it is VERY scary that YOU and OTHERS follow Greer without QUESTION. That says something about you...

Nope, not without question. And I have listed all the various sources and points of research before. The DP witnesses, Eisenhower, JFK, Senator Inouye, William Cooper, Aaron Russo's work..... they all give evidence that support and corroborate things that Greer says.

Now of course, people can claim just about anything and say that they know it by means of remote viewing and astral projection - and Aronolac's post is a perfect example - so of course all such testimony has to be taken with a grain of salt. Trust me I am acutely aware that Greer makes a lot of fantastic claims.

But that is the nature of remote viewing and astral projection - assuming they are real and they work, they open up this whole new WORLD of information and experience! Where's it possible to "know" all kinds of things but have absolutely no way of proving them to others. So that puts people like Greer in a very awkward position - how much information should they divulge that they can't back up with tangible evidence?

I think for a long time he did a good job of walking that tightrope and he was very careful about how much he said, but eventually he decided that the clock is ticking, we don't have that much time left so caution be damned....

I am sorry but you are just unbelievably ignorant and uneducated about this.... how much are "they" paying you to constantly and relentlessly attack Greer and try to turn people away from him?

OH MY GOD - I WAS JOKING UP ABOVE IN MY PREVIOUS COMMENT!!! HAHAHAH I AM SERIOUSLY LAUGHING OUT LOUD RIGHT NOW...

;-) Good I'm glad you had a good laugh.

But you know, according to people like Daniel Salter of TDP, there really are teams that are paid to do everything they can to harass, mock, ridicule and discredit people who are a threat to the MIC - and those kinds of operations have been in place since the beginning. And Greer is quite possibly the biggest threat of all.

So it actually makes perfect sense that there are people who are paid to ridicule and discredit Greer on a continual basis. And on a very large and popular conspiracy site like this one, it's not unreasonable to assume that there are one or two paid Greer Debunkers around - just like there are a few "9/11 Truth" Debunkers, NWO Debunkers, etc....

Now I see a lot of posters just popping into the thread and going "yeah, I think Greer's a nut" and they leave it at that.

But then we have YOU, who quite clearly spends HOURS A DAY, EVERY DAY, FOR WEEKS NOW, doing everything you possibly can to attack, mock, ridicule and discredit Greer! Engaging in these absurd point-for-point battles for Greer's credibility....

Why you would devote SO MUCH TIME AND ENERGY to attacking Greer if you are not being paid to do it? I mean do you really hate Greer SO PASSIONATELY that it's worth spending COUNTLESS HOURS OF YOUR TIME mocking and ridiculing him and attacking his credibility?

Millerman,

You write:
Now of course, people can claim just about anything and say that they know it by means of remote viewing and astral projection - and Aronolac's post is a perfect example - so of course all such testimony has to be taken with a grain of salt. Trust me I am acutely aware that Greer makes a lot of fantastic claims.

Ron: I know you are not implying anything whatwoever about methods such as remote viewing and astral projection. I've never had any experience with them.

It bothers me that the choice to learn something new is so easily dismissed as a "grain of salt." You have no idea what is truly involved with the subject of life taking origin outside the boundaries of earth and what is done with it. I take it you are also just as well satisfied that it remain so. Otherwise, I thought there would have been some exchange of ideas in the concepts introduced in my post awhile back. Real concepts are not grains of salt.

The UFO subject is mostly fed by observation, but like observing a constellation in the night sky, one has no idea how or why it got there or the meaning of its presence. I can not overly fault researchers for taking the path of least resistance, but I find it very hard to understand the resistance to knowledge that would enlighten the very people who are entranced by the presence of a mystery.

I have not separared myself from the facts of science, but without overly discussing through what I perceive the universe, it is very effective and available to most people. You are certainly free to your opinion about facts that lie outside of the garden variety observations about UFO's, but it must occur to many that when viewing an iceberg from the top only one hardly ever knows the extent of the object. That is exactly what we are dealing with about UFO's. The body of knowledge surrounding them is huge and undiscovered mainly because so few are open to concepts new to them. Part of being unable to investigate new facts is the attitude that our eyes will tell all. Far from it.

Dr. Greer is not out of his mind, and he certainly is knowledgable about his subject. I do not know why he plays the politcis he does, but I do not take them as something that offends the community that supports him. As a matter of fact, he is likely to gain allies with his approach that WILL make it possible for his organization to participate in the coup of truth finding of this century.

Our visitors are not in our space by chance. There is both a humanitarian and scientific motive to their presence. They are as a class, intelligently directed by organizations in deep space that I have characterized in the earlier post. Al Gore publically called the situation on our planet as a dire emergency. Well, he hardly knows the depth of that pronouncement, and many lives are at risk because of a situation we are, mostly, unaware of as planetary citizens of earth.

My hope is that many who have posted on this thread, and elsewhere, that there be a softening of attitude so that the situation can be summed up without fear attending the lesson. Nothing need be lost by listening and following up with concepts that are hardly emerging just yet, but I have mentioned a few to toss on the table.

I am open to questions if I can answer them. Somethings are so new there is hardly anything known about them except by name and I recognize how shallow the information is, but in others there can be much more made availabe that will help view the subject of UFO's, Greer's disclosures, and the spiritual and scientific interest in such, with greater clarity.

Ron

Originally posted by millerman

but what you don't understand is that the government operates like the scientific community. In the United States there is a separation of church and state. The church and state being talked about is a religious state based upon Christianity - not New Age Metaphysical proclamations. This is where congress, the senate and the white house will crush Greer's movement. I don't understand how you fail to realize that.

Already responded to this same exact point many times. Congress, senate and the white house are a SIDESHOW to the MIC. Many of them WANT to fight for Disclosure, but they are TERRIFIED of the MIC.

I can't really believe that you are going this route - its kind of off the wall. At this point I don't know what MIC stands for - but I am going to google it...
So, I get: Motorcycle Industry Council, Modular Industrial Computers, and of course microphone...
MIC - Military Industrial Complex? (remembering from a Greer vid).
This is like saying Greer is paying YOU to defend him. Just because you believe in something doesn't automatically make you working for 'the man' or 'Greer' for that matter. You have replied many many times to this thread to - and I don't even assume you know Greer - This topic peaks my interest - its just common sense to me that Greer is not on the up and up - I am not going to convince you of anything -I am just here presenting my opinion and some facts. Its SO easy to blame someone or something else as an excuse to derail a topic of conversation. I wish someone was paying me some money for this - my wife, my baby that is on its way really need it haha. I have a Job - and I make OK money - I just got home from work, and it wasn't from a military base either - it was working on a construction project down town Chicago. I have a collage degree in Computer Science - but I hate working in offices: people are such back stabbers. But, enough about ME -I do this as a hobby - I investigate UFOs - sometimes there is a cog in the wheel and I want to know what it is about - so, in my investigations of Greer I got angry at the fact that he had to bring spirituality in to the mix.

And it's interesting how you keep ignoring the existence of the MIC and how they factor into EVERYTHING, and just keep going "the government won't take Greer seriously.....". Maybe because you're employed by the MIC?

Yes, again - you got me. THE MIC is behind a lot of things, its common sense - but are they behind me typing these messages? COME ON DUDE.
You are really losing credibility by stating that. I have posted tons of things in other topics about UFOs - and usually its supportive unless I can detect CGI - or notice its something else... like a bird, or Venus being strung up by weather balloons and carted around earth.

Now of course, people can claim just about anything and say that they know it by means of remote viewing and astral projection - and Aronolac's post is a perfect example - so of course all such testimony has to be taken with a grain of salt. Trust me I am acutely aware that Greer makes a lot of fantastic claims.

Yes, and that is all I am pointing out. I don't want to restate any previous statements I said from before. So, if such testimony can be taken with a grain of salt: what is there left to believe? If he makes fantastic claims - doesn't that just add fuel to the secret government's cover-up?

But that is the nature of remote viewing and astral projection - assuming they are real and they work, they open up this whole new WORLD of information and experience! Where's it possible to "know" all kinds of things but have absolutely no way of proving them to others. So that puts people like Greer in a very awkward position - how much information should they divulge that they can't back up with tangible evidence?

Dude, I had an out of body experience once - I was floating above myself and it scared the hell out of me and I woke up as soon as it happened. No, I can not prove it, nor could anyone - but I am not going to bring that to a scientific board of study when my focus should be about UFOs and Aliens. So my point is this: since I want disclosure, wouldn't I talk about UFOs or would I talk about my OBE? And yes, it happened...

I think for a long time he did a good job of walking that tightrope and he was very careful about how much he said, but eventually he decided that the clock is ticking, we don't have that much time left so caution be damned....

Ok, well tell him to hurry up - because I want to wake up and see a headline that says US Gov says UFOS REAL and Aliens REAL.

;-) Good I'm glad you had a good laugh.

But you know, according to people like Daniel Salter of TDP, there really are teams that are paid to do everything they can to harass, mock, ridicule and discredit people who are a threat to the MIC - and those kinds of operations have been in place since the beginning. And Greer is quite possibly the biggest threat of all.

How am I harassing anyone? If you think I am - lets get a Mod in here. I was actually given some points for discussing this topic... so in a way I guess I was 'paid' LOL.

it's not unreasonable to assume that there are one or two paid Greer Debunkers around - just like there are a few "9/11 Truth" Debunkers, NWO Debunkers, etc....

What your seeming to forget here - is that not everyone believe what you believe.
Now I see a lot of posters just popping into the thread and going "yeah, I think Greer's a nut" and they leave it at that. As for name calling, so far I have been called a clown, an MIC agent, and a Debunker... boy, all because I don't agree with Greer... how is that for open minds?

But then we have YOU, who quite clearly spends HOURS A DAY, EVERY DAY, FOR WEEKS NOW, doing everything you possibly can to attack, mock, ridicule and discredit Greer! Engaging in these absurd point-for-point battles for Greer's credibility....

Its absolutely NOT hours, I can type REALLY fast (government training and all...)
You might think my points are absurd - but many people agree with me - and they also think your points are absurd... so?
BTW, this only took me 15 minutes to reply too... not to much damage on my government watch... crap - now I will only get $5

Already responded to this same exact point many times. Congress, senate and the white house are a SIDESHOW to the MIC. Many of them WANT to fight for Disclosure, but they are TERRIFIED of the MIC.

At this point I don't know what MIC stands for - but I am going to google it...
MIC - Military Industrial Complex? (remembering from a Greer vid).

Bingo!

And it's not just from a Greer vid, it's actually a quote from the famous speech by former US President Eisenhower where he referred to the shadow government. The same speech that's quoted on the home page of disclosureproject.org.....

I thought I'd abbreviate it to MIC since I get tired of "shadow government" all the time... NWO, MIC and "shadow government" are all pretty much interchangeable.....

I can't really believe that you are going this route - its kind of off the wall. This is like saying Greer is paying YOU to defend him. Just because you believe in something doesn't automatically make you working for 'the man' or 'Greer' for that matter. You have replied many many times to this thread to - and I don't even assume you know Greer -

Well, as I said my motivation is that I see Greer as an important public figure, the ONE man who managed to stand up to MIC and made the NPC disclosure conference happen, the one who's been leading the battle for disclosure on THREE different fronts - CSETI, TDP and SEAS - for 15 years.

And his message is one of great hope for the world: The ETs are NOT hostile, but are peaceful and social and spiritual beings, who want to help us deal with the MIC and end all the senseless wars on this planet, end the proliferation of WMDs and space weapons, who want to help us with our transition to the Space Age so that we can be welcomed into the greater galactic community. All good news for us!

Now I know there are a lot of real truth seekers on this site, and the reason I engage in these debates is more for their benefit, because I don't want to see you turning people away from Greer when he has done so much good and he has such a positive message. And I don't want to see you turning people away from the spiritual gifts of telepathy, remote viewing, telekinesis etc, as they are also a source of great hope and joy and wisdom - and critical to understanding the ET reality since the ETs use these gifts, and even their technology makes use of them. [According to Greer and many other contactees]

Yes, again - you got me. THE MIC is behind a lot of things, its common sense - but are they behind me typing these messages? COME ON DUDE.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. If they are, you'd certainly never admit it. But as I said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were at least a few paid debunkers on here, since this site is naturally a focal point for real truth seekers on the Internet - and the MIC has a vested interest in keeping people from knowing too much of the truth. They would certainly have a vested interest in damaging Greer's credibility as much as they possibly can....

Trust me I am acutely aware that Greer makes a lot of fantastic claims.

Yes, and that is all I am pointing out. I don't want to restate any previous statements I said from before. So, if such testimony can be taken with a grain of salt: what is there left to believe? If he makes fantastic claims - doesn't that just add fuel to the secret government's cover-up?

Well as I have said, due to the mass of disinformation and conflicting testimony, and due to the fantastic nature of astral projection etc - yes it makes it pretty much impossible to figure out the truth, at least by "normal" means of research.

As they say "seeing is believing". And that is one of the major reasons for CSETI. It's not enough to just tell people and expect them to believe, they need to EXPERIENCE it.

And I know you're going to complain that he charges people to go on these contact expeditions, but look at it as a natural filter. It filters out the people who are too cynical, skeptical, immature, afraid.... and draws in those who are mentally, emotionally and spiritually ready to take that step, who have opened their minds to the possibility of telepathy etc and who are willing to pay a bit of $$$ to experience contact firsthand.

Ok, well tell him to hurry up - because I want to wake up and see a headline that says US Gov says UFOS REAL and Aliens REAL.

LOL!

So you want to be able to sit by your TV and be spoonfed while Greer does all the fighting for you! And no matter how hard he fights it's just not hard enough I guess! Nice..... I love how people can simultaneously call him a kook and yet have impossibly high demands and standards for him....

And while the US Gov hasn't come clean yet.... it looks like France has.

As for name calling, so far I have been called a clown, an MIC agent, and a Debunker... boy, all because I don't agree with Greer... how is that for open minds?

Well I don't enjoy calling people names, but the reason I called you an ignorant clown is that you have an annoying habit of making up arguments against Greer off the top of your head WITHOUT HAVING DONE THE RELEVANT RESEARCH.

Like reading ALL of his newest book where he tells the whole story of his life and his efforts at Disclosure and all the ins and outs of the MIC. Listening to all his radio interviews. Going through all the DP witness testimony and briefing material. Reading all the articles he has written that are posted at disclosureproject.org.

I have done all these things, so at least I can say that I'm approaching this from an informed, educated position. Whereas you keep saying things like "The US government and the mass media will never take Greer seriously" - you would KNOW better if you were to do the research!

You might think my points are absurd - but many people agree with me - and they also think your points are absurd... so?

So, at least I am coming from a position of having done all the relevant research, and I can back up everything I say by directing people to that research, and I don't just make up spurious arguments off the top of my head just for the sake of arguing because I hate someone.... ;-)

Originally posted by millerman

And his message is one of great hope for the world: The ETs are NOT hostile, but are peaceful and social and spiritual beings, who want to help us deal with the MIC and end all the senseless wars on this planet, end the proliferation of WMDs and space weapons, who want to help us with our transition to the Space Age so that we can be welcomed into the greater galactic community. All good news for us!

This is the thing that I don't get - how do you know the ETs are not hostile? Because Greer told you so? That, for me is not sufficient to put the whole of humanity on the line. No one knows their agenda but the government - and perhaps they might be confused about it too. You know about the old story of the 'Trojan Horse' don't you? Well, that is what this all could be - deceit.
OR they could very well be peaceful - but just on one mans word? There is plenty of evidence to the contrary of his claims - even by abductees themselves. I know we went over this before, and I am sorry I bring it up again, but I don't KNOW if they are peaceful and I am definitely NOT going to trust ONE mans OPINION

Now I know there are a lot of real truth seekers on this site, and the reason I engage in these debates is more for their benefit, because I don't want to see you turning people away from Greer when he has done so much good and he has such a positive message. And I don't want to see you turning people away from the spiritual gifts of telepathy, remote viewing, telekinesis etc, as they are also a source of great hope and joy and wisdom - and critical to understanding the ET reality since the ETs use these gifts, and even their technology makes use of them. [According to Greer and many other contactees]

That is fine - people can believe what they want to believe, I don't care. I just asked some questions and felt that people were being misled - now we have this huge debate: how grand is that? The way I look at it, its how things should be - instead of beating each other up or killing one another. Just because I speak out against something doesn't mean I hate people, or am trying to steer anyone away from what they want to seek, people have the right to 'change the channel'... your blowing this way out of proportion.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. If they are, you'd certainly never admit it. But as I said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were at least a few paid debunkers on here, since this site is naturally a focal point for real truth seekers on the Internet - and the MIC has a vested interest in keeping people from knowing too much of the truth. They would certainly have a vested interest in damaging Greer's credibility as much as they possibly can....

Hey, if 'they' want to pay me to debate you about this - 'they' can LOL - I REALLY NEED THE MONEY... but alas - 'they' won't, because if I got involved with 'them' I would expose them for what 'they' are... and 'they' know it.

And I know you're going to complain that he charges people to go on these contact expeditions, but look at it as a natural filter. It filters out the people who are too cynical, skeptical, immature, afraid.... and draws in those who are mentally, emotionally and spiritually ready to take that step, who have opened their minds to the possibility of telepathy etc and who are willing to pay a bit of $$$ to experience contact firsthand.

No, not complain - but just nod my head up and down in understanding of the elitism involved. I don't make that kind of money, I can't afford it. I think I am pretty smart (well, yeah that is my opinion - and I am sure you disagree and are making comments under your breath about it) and I know I could handle the mental, emotional yadda yadda - and I just can't understand why this is only available for people with that kind of money if it's such a 'tangible' breakthrough... it rather makes me sad then anything else - because it all goes back to the MIC - yeah, thats right. The MIC is also big corporations - who keeps people down? Both the government and big corporations. Big oil over charges everyone for gas and lies to them... the government overtaxes its citizenry and lies to them...
So, without making you angry - isn't Greer kind of leaving people without the funds out of the limelight? Can you see where I am coming from at least?

LOL!

So you want to be able to sit by your TV and be spoonfed while Greer does all the fighting for you! And no matter how hard he fights it's just not hard enough I guess! Nice..... I love how people can simultaneously call him a kook and yet have impossibly high demands and standards for him....

You obviously don't read any other thread then this one... I have done my share of the fighting - and even called upon Greer and others to band together under one united flag. Read some of my other topics and posts - seems you haven't done YOUR research...

but the reason I called you an ignorant clown is that you have an annoying habit of making up arguments against Greer off the top of your head WITHOUT HAVING DONE THE RELEVANT RESEARCH.

making up arguments huh? State some of these please - I am really curious about these 'made up' arguments. Just because I haven't read his book(s) does not mean I have not researched HIM.
I have listened to his interviews, I have watched the disclosure project vids, read everything on both his sites...

I have done all these things, so at least I can say that I'm approaching this from an informed, educated position. Whereas you keep saying things like "The US government and the mass media will never take Greer seriously" - you would KNOW better if you were to do the research!

it still irks me that you still do not understand that argument. Others have tried to rephrase it for your better understanding but you just don't get it.
I don't know how else to tell you they WONT. Mass media still makes fun of UFOs from time to time - imagine, putting Greer on who says he can communicate with 'them'? They would fry him and you know it.

I don't just make up spurious arguments off the top of my head just for the sake of arguing because I hate someone.... ;-)

I really want to know how you came to the conclusion I make stuff up, and when did I say I hated Greer? seems you fall into that category. Reference where I said that.

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by millerman

And his message is one of great hope for the world: The ETs are NOT hostile, but are peaceful and social and spiritual beings, who want to help us deal with the MIC and end all the senseless wars on this planet, end the proliferation of WMDs and space weapons, who want to help us with our transition to the Space Age so that we can be welcomed into the greater galactic community. All good news for us!

This is the thing that I don't get - how do you know the ETs are not hostile? Because Greer told you so? That, for me is not sufficient to put the whole of humanity on the line. No one knows their agenda but the government - and perhaps they might be confused about it too. You know about the old story of the 'Trojan Horse' don't you? Well, that is what this all could be - deceit.
OR they could very well be peaceful - but just on one mans word?

Nope. Don't assume that all I do is just spout Greer's opinions verbatim just because I support him.

It's called multiple independent corroborating witnesses. The more credible witnesses you have saying the same thing, the more likely it is that they are telling the truth.

Greer testifies that in all his contact experiences he has never encountered a hostile species, and that the abductions are actually done by MIC to demonize the ETs.

Clifford Stone also testifies that the ETs are peaceful and spiritually advanced beings.

Dr. Carol Rosin testified that there would be a planned progression of "enemies" in order to justify keeping the permanent war machine running - Rogue Nations, Asteroids, Terrorists, then Aliens... and sure enough, she testified at the NPC conference in May 2001, and the War on Terror began in September 2001! Which helps to support the notion that it is MIC doing the abductions - to set up the ETs as the Next Enemy.

Then there is the fact that the whole mass wave of UFO sightings only really began when we started developing Nuclear weapons and other WMDs - which suggests that the ETs are not themselves hostile, but they are concerned with OUR hostility and development of WMDs. And several of the DP witnesses have testified that at times the ETs have even disabled our nuclear missiles and prevented us from launching nukes into space.

And then there's plain and simple logic. We have thousands of years of recorded history where we have never once been invaded or subjugated by ETs.

Also, there's the fact that as technology advances, weapons get more and more deadly - to the point where you can develop weapons to destroy whole planets, or possibly even star systems. So as a civilization advances in technology, the likelihood that it will self-destruct increases, UNLESS it VOLUNTARILY abandons the ways of weapons and warfare and becomes peaceful. And indeed we have been right on the brink of "nuking ourselves back to the stone age" since the 40s.

And I know you're going to complain that he charges people to go on these contact expeditions, but look at it as a natural filter. It filters out the people who are too cynical, skeptical, immature, afraid.... and draws in those who are mentally, emotionally and spiritually ready to take that step, who have opened their minds to the possibility of telepathy etc and who are willing to pay a bit of $$$ to experience contact firsthand.

No, not complain - but just nod my head up and down in understanding of the elitism involved. I don't make that kind of money, I can't afford it.
...
So, without making you angry - isn't Greer kind of leaving people without the funds out of the limelight? Can you see where I am coming from at least?

So, what, you expect CSETI to come right to your door, drag you off to a contact event, vector in UFOs for you, then drop you off at home again all for free??

Obviously they can't cater to everyone that's interested in the experience. They need funding for EVERYTHING that they do, and not just CSETI but TDP and SEAS as well. So, yeah they charge an arm and a leg for it and that's not about to change any time soon. I'd love to go too but I can't afford it either. We just have to deal.

I have done all these things, so at least I can say that I'm approaching this from an informed, educated position. Whereas you keep saying things like "The US government and the mass media will never take Greer seriously" - you would KNOW better if you were to do the research!

it still irks me that you still do not understand that argument. Others have tried to rephrase it for your better understanding but you just don't get it.

It is YOU that doesn't get it! Because, among other things, you haven't READ GREER'S BOOK!

He EXPLAINS THIS, IN THE BOOK.

GO READ IT, from front to back. Then come back and have this argument from an EDUCATED position.

I don't know how else to tell you they WONT. Mass media still makes fun of UFOs from time to time - imagine, putting Greer on who says he can communicate with 'them'? They would fry him and you know it.

OF COURSE the mass media makes fun of UFOs - because they are BOUGHT AND PAID FOR. They are CORRUPT. They are ORDERED to mock and discredit UFOs and contactees! Because they are part of MIC's PROPAGANDA MACHINE.

And you would KNOW that, if you would READ THE BOOK!

For the 10000th time..... There are MANY in the government, and many reporters and journalists who do support Greer and WANT to expose this - but they are THWARTED by MIC. He has met with them many times and their answer is always "I don't have access to these projects, THEY won't let me do anything about this, THEY won't let me put this on TV...."

Go and re-read the article at disclosureproject.org that talks about CIA involvement in sanitizing the news media. Go and re-read the article that talks about how in 2005, Greer gave ALL his evidence and testimony to Peter Jennings and ABC, and they used NONE of it but instead produced another complete mockery. (And shortly after that Peter Jennings developed lung cancer and died..... coincidence? Maybe not... maybe he pushed a little too hard to air Greer's material....)

I am trying to tell you.... go and EDUCATE YOURSELF about how the MIC works and how they have infiltrated EVERYTHING - ESPECIALLY the mass media....

[edit on 25-3-2007 by millerman]

[edit on 25-3-2007 by millerman]

you know a lot of this new age stuff he comes out with reminds me of that bit from the bible, that went something like this.

"in the final days, men will have plenty of stupid ideas of what god is, and what god wants."

i think this sums up the new age movement that this guy belongs to. no man can understand these things, and he is so against religion, even though he never gives any respect at all to god.

Hi andy1033,

Did you know that under the Catholic Renewal, Catholics/Christians get to do things like telekinesis, foresight and remote viewing too? They call them the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit".

They get together in little prayer groups and heal each other and have "words of knowledge" (foresight/remote viewing) - and I have witnessed this firsthand.

So there is actually support for all this "New Age Stuff" in at least one of the major world religions.... and come to think of it, Jesus allegedly levitated (walked on water) and did other things with telekinesis - water into wine, the multiplication of the loaves, etc....

Millerman:

I may not agree with all you have to say, but you do have my admiration.

A Titanic struggle to present your views.

Hats off to you, and all the others who have posted so passionately.

It's what makes this site work.

Edit to include:

Special thanks to UNOAPE. I hope your organisation flourishes.



[edit on 25-3-2007 by Seeker PI]

millerman- i am sure that the vatican too, is also into weird stuff. but do you not think that a person may not be able to handle these things. this is probably the reason why people were told not to do these things. each to there own and all that, i would rather just play safe, but i know that people do rationalise what they do for themselves, and catholics may take art in this too.

Originally posted by andy1033
millerman- i am sure that the vatican too, is also into weird stuff. but do you not think that a person may not be able to handle these things. this is probably the reason why people were told not to do these things. each to there own and all that, i would rather just play safe, but i know that people do rationalise what they do for themselves, and catholics may take art in this too.

As long as you are a sheep, they are happy. As long as you are kept entertained, it's good for them. You don't do your homework, don't look into the true nature of our government, or those corporations...
But, is that really what you want to leave behind, to the following generations?

Seeker: Thanks for the props!


andy1033:

millerman- i am sure that the vatican too, is also into weird stuff. but do you not think that a person may not be able to handle these things. this is probably the reason why people were told not to do these things. each to there own and all that, i would rather just play safe, but i know that people do rationalise what they do for themselves, and catholics may take art in this too.

Well sure, there are lots of people who have just closed themselves completely away from these things - cold hard empty Science only!

And there are those who are just so caught up in "the grind" - working, raising a family, having a social life - that they just don't find the time to pray/meditate even though they might like to.

That's why I respect what Greer does; because what is needed is not just a technological revolution, but a spiritual one as well....

millerman, you're one heck of a patient person. Voted for Way above already on you, Keep it up.

Google Video Link

Google Video Link

I don't think Tock understands what the debate is about between Millerman and myself... I am not complaining about how Greer was going about the Disclosure project - I am complaining about him going all New Age on everyone which pushed research back, and perhaps put him at a distance to gov. officials. (sorry for the repeat - but I don't think Tock gets it).


I am happy Greer got all this information, I am happy that Greer is pushing forward - I am unhappy that he went all New Age, I am unhappy that he embellishes the facts with exaggerated statements (such as debriefing a CIA director - which he only had dinner with his family and the CIA directors family), and I am unhappy with the fact that Greer is just as bad as the government in covering up the Truth by making people sign Confidentiality Agreements.

My case is published - I don't know what else to tell Millerman or Tock - since Tock has me on ignore because I don't subscribe to his views, it seems that ignorance prevails on his end, and good for him. I may bring up facts and articles but only to be sidestepped by calling me 'Debunker' or 'MIC Agent' and yes, and ignorant Clown... perhaps more - but its not worth my time to research and look at backlogs of the thread.

I just find the tactics incredibly infantile. I have read part of Greer's book - YES! GOOD FOR GREER! GOOD FOR US ALL! I am NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT. IT seems every step I take the tactic to make this about the disclosure project ensues. I was HAPPY with the disclosure project until Greer went NEW AGE. BUT THESE GUYS CAN'T UNDERSTAND MY ARGUMENTS. They can't understand anything about what I have stated OVER AND OVER AND OVER... it just gets derailed and goes back to how I 'hate Greer' and I work for the Military Industrial Complex and I am a disinformation agent.... I mean - how crude of arguments can people come up with if they are struggling for a rebuttal?

What is there left to debate about?

I mean, this thread is reading like some crazy book right now - and there are some spectators that are cheering both sides... its become almost epic in proportion.
Do I concede - no, but I surely don't understand how this topic got so blown out of proportion that it has come down to belittling people by making them into 'government agents' and 'covert debunking agents' blah.

People need to come up with better arguments then "Because I said so" and "Because Greer said so."

At least I post some links and data to back my stuff up. (oh yeah, tock posted some movies about TDP - but - WHO is TALKING ABOUT THAT?) SO WHAT TOCK? Post SOME CSETI Stuff and show the world how Greer steered TDP way off course from actual disclosure... bet you won't.

Kroms33 - Disinformation Specialist and Complex Military Agent of Industrial Debunking
that should be my sig!!!

Love, peace, compassion, understanding, bi-directional encounter, ambassadorial attitude, spirituality, enjoying now, the greatest moment this planet is coming to, the end of this chaotic world and the blooming of 500 000 years of peace, with the acceptance into this galactic council.

Greer can say as much as he wants. But don't be surprised when no one listens.

Disclosure advocates at large, and this is particularly true of the Disclosure Project, lack any political acumen. There is no consistent message. They don't craft their message to meet an audience. There is no strategy.

People aren't going to listen to the spiritual. It is too unfamiliar with them. It is hard enough to get their attention with actual science. Even the original Disclosure Project press conference was a parade of the outlandish mixed with the compelling. No one was going to listen to that.

We need a more organized approach. Frankly, the politically savvy need to come together and openly schism from the spiritualists. Religion is fine, but the spiritualists--including Greer--are never going to make any progress. They're going to continue making fools of us all.

Maybe that's harsh, but history justifies my approach time after time after time. My blog explores my thoughts on this subject in relative depth.