I left this debate with these words.

Originally posted by Seeker PI

Eloquent words and well scripted.

Appreciate your prospective. Outside of the first paragraph, I agree with much of what you have written.

Out of respect to your point of view, I won't belabour the point further.

Thanks again.

The very first post in response to the OP, ended with this statement.

Originally posted by kroms33

I know many will attack my views about this - but look at it from a scientific level. I believe UFOs exist - but for the public to accept this as fact - you don't make it spiritual - you make it scientific and present facts.

MAN AM I DISAPPOINTED.

[edit on 3/11/2007 by kroms33]

I'am still unclear all this time later, as to why the UFO phenomina can not be viewed from a Scientific level with available facts and evidence presented for scrutiny.

If there is a Cosmic Secret that can only be accessed through the teachings of Dr Greer. Then thats just great. But give it FREELY to the rest of humanity.

If financial backing is the issue. There must be many foward thinking multi millionairs who would jump at the opportunity to save the world and charge it as a tax deduction. But I guess they just wouldn't get it would they.

I'am back off to the cone of silence.

Precisely, Seeker...

My disappointment is not so much in the way Greer behaved as an individual. I am just as much a believer in remote viewing, etc, as the next guy. He can have all the esoteric, New Age experiences he wants. He's entitled. He can even make money off of his CSETI love-ins, books, and everything else. I'm ok with all that too.

It's just that for a while there I thought we had a "Disclosure Spokesperson" that fit the mold expected in mainstream circles of government and the media. Alas, it was not to be...

Before I get blasted, let me say right off that I don't necessarily condone or subscribe to that "image" myself and respect completely Greer's right to act any way he wants.

Don't you see the difference? Compare the video of his famous News Conference with this latest fruitcake display. Hate me if you must - but there is a HUGE, ENORMOUS difference in the way these two displays can be interpreted.

At the news conference, Greer was conservative, serious, disciplined. He and most of his witnesses were dressed-for-success, behaved business-like, entirely non-nonsense. Isn't it obvious? THAT is the behavior/demeanor/attitude that will get the attention of Congress, the media, etc.

All arguments for casual dress and behavior aside: when you address the public, in a public forum - particularly if you see that the event is being filmed, the media are present, it will have a lasting impact, etc. - you have to walk-the-talk! Nobody trying to get the attention of Congress, CNN/FOX/BBC, etc. will do so unless they stay consistent in theme and presence.

If you're demanding no-nonsense disclosure - especially regarding a highly controversial and secretive topic - you had better be consistently non-nonsense yourself. Those are not my rules - they are just the rules of society - the rules of the game.

I just hate seeing us lose the game...

Well, maybe it's time for people to wake the heck up. Don't you think.
Stop expecting stuff the format that makes you feel good about yourself and beliefs. And take it the way things are really.

If Steven is coming out with all this out of this world stuff, it's probably because it's time that this comes out, whether people like it or not.

People might consider reviewing their cultural background...
I did and yes, it was quite a cultural shock.

Originally posted by tock
Well, maybe it's time for people to wake the heck up. Don't you think.
Stop expecting stuff the format that makes you feel good about yourself and beliefs. And take it the way things are really.

If Steven is coming out with all this out of this world stuff, it's probably because it's time that this comes out, whether people like it or not.

People might consider reviewing their cultural background...
I did and yes, it was quite a cultural shock.

You keep telling people that (wake up) - perhaps it is you that is taking a nap?
I think that people are looking at things the way that they are - and have woken up and are tired of being duped.
Many think (and I am not their spokesperson by any means) that Greer is doing this for profit and perhaps as a disinformation campaign. He can come up with as much "out of this world stuff" he wants - it makes sales. Is it time for him to come out with all this 'stuff'? NO. He needs to focus on getting those 450 people in front of congress instead of making fools of them by going New Age Spiritualist on them.
IF he really wanted to get this information out to the public - he would have, and he wouldn't be charging $800 per person for it either. Its a circus act at best right now.
"Come one come all - look into the magic box - but first give me what you have in your wallet and then you can see."
What a load of crap.

If Greer is for real (and that is doubtful) - then he is an elitist who is focusing only on educating a certain portion of society: the rich.

Originally posted by Outrageo

Don't you see the difference? Compare the video of his famous News Conference with this latest fruitcake display. Hate me if you must - but there is a HUGE, ENORMOUS difference in the way these two displays can be interpreted.

At the news conference, Greer was conservative, serious, disciplined. He and most of his witnesses were dressed-for-success, behaved business-like, entirely non-nonsense. Isn't it obvious? THAT is the behavior/demeanor/attitude that will get the attention of Congress, the media, etc.

All arguments for casual dress and behavior aside: when you address the public, in a public forum - particularly if you see that the event is being filmed, the media are present, it will have a lasting impact, etc. - you have to walk-the-talk! Nobody trying to get the attention of Congress, CNN/FOX/BBC, etc. will do so unless they stay consistent in theme and presence.

Thank you outrageo.

I do see the difference.

Please understand that an effective speaker is going to tailor the speech to the participants involved.

Had I gone to the expo, I wouldn't have wanted to see the witnesses, I would not have wanted to hear a bunch of policy wonking stuff. I would really want to dig into his spiritual stuff, but on the other hand, that would have never flown at the 2001 Disclosure Event, however, if you will read Greer's first Disclosure book the Spiritual stuff is in there and is part of the executive briefing document that Greer hands out to these people.

Allow me to pontificate.

At the disclosure event, he was in DC and he was briefing important people in power, and he was also on camera all over the world.

The DC enviornment is conservative, as you say in dress and manner. If you are in Rome you act as a Roman. If you are in Washington and are going to be rubbing elbows with people in power, you look nice.

The Life Expo was a different venue.

First of all, wasn't it held in CA? Out west anyway. That is a more conservative venue anyway.

What kind of people would go there?

In short, the modern day 'hippy' if I may, but let me elaborate-more spiritual in nature, less conserative...all of the things that Dr Greer presented himself at this conference. Furthermore, the Life Expo was not nationally televised.

In fact, according to a brief comment he made during the talk, it seems as if he didn't really approve of the taping, but he must've changed his mind about it because the video is now linked from his website.

In my opinion, he's an excellent speaker, and if we're are left with nothing to say about his speech than what he wore, well, he did good.

Steven Greer doesn't have millionaires behind him.
Heck, the National Press Club conference almost got canned, if it wasn't for Another Medical Doctor saving the day with a last minute donation.

Did you check how much money it cost to get a certificate in computer programming or as a Graphic artist?
I've seen programs running between 3000-15000 dollars for week long training.
You find that acceptable?

Stop spitting out all this crap if you have no idea what you're talking about.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by tock]

I find the arguement that Steven Greer is in this for the money to be completely ubsurd. Before he started the disclosure project he was a successful Emergency Room Doctor. I'll bet that his income from one year as a doctor was more money than he has personally made from Disclosure Project and CSeti since their beginnings.

CSeti Costs so much money because it costs money to make it happen: Logistics, equipment, staff, etc.. Ever sent a kid to summer camp? The cost will blow your mind. And thats what Cseti is, a summer camp for open-minded spiritual adults. Also I don't exactly think that his book is on the best sellers list.

I feel like the " New Age" attitude he displays is an inevitable transformation that happens when one dives into the topic as deep as he has, with an open mind. But I can't argue that it isn't hurting his credibility. But I also think he has realized that the fight is futile, that he can't win with the disclosure project, and that the only way to force a disclosure is to raise the conciousness of the public.

All well and true.

These days, every employer will 'google' a prospect, check him/her out, see what the emperor looks like in different clothes - or no clothes. No decision will be made until the candidate is 'vetted' in this respect.

Let's say I'm a conservative, stick-in-the-mud congressman. A legislator. I'm approached by an individual who claims to have indisputable proof that the 'Big Cheese" - the congressman's superiors and contemporaries - have been lying to the public and to the congressman himself for decades about a matter of profound and earth-shattering importance.

Well - I must consider whether I should give this individual an audience. He's asking me to help him parade his group in front of one of the most powerful political institutions on the planet so he can air his claims.

The first thing I'm going to do is get my staff to 'check him out'. After the Washington news event, I might think, "hmm - this guys sounds legit. He's got some credible witnesses. He presents well. Sounds convincing." Now I must weigh whether or not to support his attempt to at legitimacy in front of my fellow congressfolk. My staff then shows me a video of the LA abduction-levitation-spaceship-fest. Immediately my alarm bells go off and I advise my staff to firmly but courteously distance myself from this guy ASAP.

Is that fair? No. Should we all, congressmen included, learn to lighten up and 'accept new ways of thinking and enlightenment', etc. I absolutely think we should -especially stuffed shirts like congressmen!

But reality sucks. Greer can tiptoe in the tulips all he wants. But my fear is that he will lose legions of supporters now that his message is inconsistent, his 'image' is embellished, and his motives are less clear.

Blame me for thinking this way if you wish, but put yourself, just for moment, into the shoes of the stuffy congressman he was trying to persuade to support him. He has his own reputation to consider. I believe he would have been much more likely to support someone who has a clean, consistent, message. That message has now been 'rainbowed' beyond the level said congressman would be willing to "stand by Greer".

Greer may not have been addressing Washington when he was in L.A. - but with the internet and today's rapid telecommunications/vetting technology, he may as well have been. You can bet EVERYONE in a position of importance will be taking a look at that video. Most, sadly, will be shaking their heads in disbelief.

This is why some of us are frustrated. Not because Greer has gone platinum on us. It's because we feel he may have ruined the best chance we've had in a long time to get powerful folks in government to take serious look at the disclosure issue. After this escapade - they will be able to absolve themselves from taking that serious look via Greer. He's excused himself from further serious consideration. Ironically, some congressmen will be secretly relieved. For a while there they were beginning to think they may have to take this man seriously. Now they don't have to.

Originally posted by tock

I've seen programs running between 3000-15000 dollars for week long training.
You find that acceptable?

Stop spitting out all this crap if you have no idea what you're talking about.

CRAP? ok, so your telling me these $800 sessions will amount up to some type of applicable degree that you can get a job with? Your telling me that with that $800 someone could actually use this in an applied manner for business?
Sorry, but no - $3000-$15000 is way out of MY price range. It just goes to show how only the people with money can have 'access'.

You want to talk about spitting crap? If I have no idea what I am talking about - and if Greer is sooooo much for DISCLOSURE - why would he be charging THAT MUCH MONEY?
GIVE ME A BREAK - most people are not that gullible - sorry to disappoint you.

Originally posted by Outrageo
abduction-levitation-spaceship-fest.

Oh so funny but OH so true. I laughed when I read that.
I really don't think they will understand what you are trying to say because this has become a religion to them.

I got more out of that single week with him and his team, than in anything i have learned in 20 years of school or university.
And you know what, It was by far the best holiday I ever had, in 35 years. Best investment for my buck, every penny of it.

SO yeah! I know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about my own experience.


[edit on 22-3-2007 by tock]

Outrageo, that's His work, His business, His investment, he sweat for that. He can lead this the way be sees fit.

It's hard to swallow for some, I agree, but still, that's his work. If people are not satisfied with all this, start your own organization and take it where you want it.

That's how i see it.
And krom, well I don't care what you want or think. This beautiful feature calle ignore will save me from hearing your whinning and arguing about the same stuff over and over.


[edit on 22-3-2007 by tock]

Originally posted by tock
I got more out of that single week with him and his team, than in anything i have learned in 20 years of school or university.
And you know what, It was by far the best holiday I ever had, in 35 years. Best investment for my buck, every penny of it.

SO yeah! I know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about my own experience.


[edit on 22-3-2007 by tock]

I am glad you got enjoyment out of it, and that you had a nice vacation. I don't want to down you or your belief system. What I want is for Greer to stop making this into a spiritual quest (for now), and making money off of people to 'enlighten' them. He needs to firstly focus on disclosure - because as I have stated time and time again - the US government will not take him seriously.

You also seem to get upset when I raise the money issue - I don't see why. Since 75% (or so) of the US population believes in UFOs - you don't think that people would donate money to an organization that seemed CREDIBLE?

Greer lost that edge and credibility.

The majority of us can't afford Greer's seminars to find the 'truth' - so he has yet segregated another portion of the 'believer' base. That just strengthens my argumentation further about what he is about and not what he is for.

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by millerman

Well if you have experienced these things - how do you explain them? How do they work? There has to be a scientific explanation for them.... right?

Yes, many do have scientific explanations - but mostly theoretical conjecture.
Science has for researched miracles, ESP, telekinetics, remote viewing, and various other aspects of the human mind for ages.
Many times the only explanation is Mind of matter.

Well, there you go. "Mind over matter". You are admitting that there is an empirical and scientific basis for these things. You may not want to admit that there is a spiritual side to them or that they are gifts from God, which is fine. But you are admitting that these things are real and people can do them and they have been studied.

So if there's a scientific basis for them, it is irrational to get angry at Greer when he talks about using them.

If he wanted this 'technology' or life altering 'spirituality' known, he could easily give it to the public. Don't give me that media biased crap either - there are alternative methods then putting this information on TV. Look at the internet - look at all of the different conspiracy and UFO pages - they are not being as suppressed as TV(yet).

Now you're just rehashing old objections! Yes, there are alternatives to TV - like the internet and alternative radio, and Greer DOES USE THESE. Loads of his evidence is on the internet, and he has done many alternative radio/audio interviews.

I am getting very tired of answering these utterly baseless and uninformed objections and accusations..... anything to keep bitching about Greer and trying to turn people away from him, eh?

I am sorry, if he wanted to get his word out - he wouldn't have to make money doing it.

No, completely and utterly wrong and ignorant and baseless! OF COURSE Greer needs to make money!!! He WALKED AWAY FROM HIS MEDICAL CAREER to fight for Disclosure full time! He has a family to feed and FOUR DAUGHTERS to put through college! His THREE organizations, TDP, CSETI and SEAS all have operating costs and expenses and DESPERATELY need funding! Not to mention the cost of CONSTANTLY TRAVELLING AROUND THE WORLD!

OF COURSE Greer needs to make money! OF COURSE he's going to do whatever it takes to keep TDP, CSETI and SEAS afloat! OF COURSE he's going to sell books and DVDs and charge for CSETI events!

I am sorry but you are just unbelievably ignorant and uneducated about this.... how much are "they" paying you to constantly and relentlessly attack Greer and try to turn people away from him?

He has 450+ 'whistle blowers' on the sidelines waiting for him to stop goofing around with communicating with the aliens and actually DO something tangible.

Since when do YOU speak for the 450 whistleblowers? Where are all these whistleblowers that are allegedly turning their back on Greer like the critics are saying? Show me some evidence please.

And as for DOING something tangible - what do you call the G8 country planning a major open contact event with him, like he spoke of?

Yeah, OK so he gave up a 200k/year job to become a millionaire, I think I would make that trade off too.

Who ever said he was a millionaire? Evidence??? More COMPLETELY baseless claims and attacks.....

NO, he most emphatically is NOT. TDP is a NON-PROFIT organization. I would be surprised if he's even in the green at all, if he's EVER really made $$$ doing this.

I think I emphatically without a reasonable doubt disproved your point. Whilst TDP is non-profit (oh... caps... whoops) C-SETI IS FOR PROFIT...
Your prophet is lookin kinda weak... (pardon the pun).

Says YOU. But all you did was post what he charges for things, you showed NOTHING of his OPERATING COSTS. Like for example, all the money he would need to funnel into SEAS so that they can do the desperately needed R&D of new energy technologies!

So no, you absolutely did not disprove anything - and once again you made yourself look like an ignorant clown doing anything and everything you possibly can to turn people away from Greer.

Show me a budget report, show me a report with his total income and total EXPENSES AND OPERATING COSTS, show me some real evidence of how he is allegedly making SO much $$$ and pocketing it all and becoming a millionaire.... in fact show us any kind of evidence at all to back up your absurd and baseless and ignorant attacks on Greer.....

Hi Seeker PI,

Originally posted by Seeker PI

If there is a Cosmic Secret that can only be accessed through the teachings of Dr Greer. Then thats just great. But give it FREELY to the rest of humanity.

The entire CE-5 (Close Encounters of the Fifth kind) protocol is spelled out in his newest book Hidden Truth Forbidden Knowledge.

(In fact, pretty much ALL the information needed to rebuke ALL the baseless attacks of all of Greer's critics and naysayers, is in the book. He explains everything in it. He explains all about how the shadow government works, who they are and how they operate, why his evidence isn't all over the major newsmedia, why the US government and the other governments of the world won't do anything about Disclosure....)

If financial backing is the issue. There must be many foward thinking multi millionairs who would jump at the opportunity to save the world and charge it as a tax deduction.

I have wondered about this too, like why he doesn't go to major philanthropists.... I know that "they" are always monitoring everything he does very closely, so I'm sure they actively do things to prevent him from getting access to the kind of funding that he really needs....

Hello Outrageo,

All arguments for casual dress and behavior aside: when you address the public, in a public forum - particularly if you see that the event is being filmed, the media are present, it will have a lasting impact, etc. - you have to walk-the-talk! Nobody trying to get the attention of Congress, CNN/FOX/BBC, etc. will do so unless they stay consistent in theme and presence.

Have you read Greer's newest book?

He has been meeting with governments, Congress, CNN/FOX/BBC etc for YEARS.... and their answer is always the same:

"Yes I want to do something about this, but 'they' won't let me!"

The people that might have the power to do something for Disclosure, are TERRIFIED of the shadow government, or Military/Industrial Complex, or whatever you want to call them.

Now, coming from the position of having read the book, I have made this exact same point many many times now.... why are people not getting this? Or is it that people just don't want to believe it, or think it's a lie....? Can the naysayers explain this to me please?

Originally posted by tock
And krom, well I don't care what you want or think. This beautiful feature calle ignore will save me from hearing your whinning and arguing
[edit on 22-3-2007 by tock]

Oh I see, so if someone disagrees with you - you ignore them. The word IGNORANT stems from the word ignore by the way... so much for debate.

As for me whining and arguing and posting the same thing over and over again... I guess you are one to talk? Or should I pull some of your past posts with various references?
Anyhow - ignore me - but just to let you know, its ignorant.

I think Dr. Steven Greer and his whole operation is full of it. I mean LOL, its so funny listening to the old guys saying, "Give our young people the truth, they want it! Give them what they want," Hahaha, these people have nothing better to do with there lives but dream on.

/7A