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The Knights of Columbus

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posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor

Originally posted by corsig

Let's keep civil and take the high ground. I sense Henry is getting the wrong idea of our little SS group here and want him to feel welcomed.

Cory


Why do you keep calling me Henry??? My name is John, lol.


LOL too funny I thought your signature was your name, I guess not.




posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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Hon. Edward Dormer Assembly is the 4th degree K of C assembly I belong to....I can see where the mix up is now. LOL



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Hon. Edward Dormer Assembly is the 4th degree K of C assembly I belong to....I can see where the mix up is now. LOL


Can I still call you Henry?

It could be our special nickname



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by corsig

Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Hon. Edward Dormer Assembly is the 4th degree K of C assembly I belong to....I can see where the mix up is now. LOL


Can I still call you Henry?

It could be our special nickname


Oh goodness gracious....if you really feel you must!!! LOL



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 05:54 PM
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YES!!!!!

I have a new KofC friend.

All the other guys are going to be so jealous.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by corsig
Yeah I didn't know that- I spent an hour or so on Google/Yahoo trying to find something at all and nothing was there.

Very interesting that it's that hard to come by. What do you make of that??


Here is the Knights of Columbus First Degree

Knights of Columbus Second Degree

Knights of Columbus Third Degree

[edit on 19-3-2007 by Masonic Light]


Ditto what the other KCs said. The ceremonials listed are not entirely accurate. Some parts are missing entirely in the 1st-3rd degrees, and one portion of the 1st Degree is shown in the 3rd Degree.

I also noticed that the date is listed as 1968. I received my 1st-3rd Degrees in 2001 and my 4th in 2005. The rituals were revised circa 1977-1983 to make them less physical and strenuous, so I've heard. There was a recent revision of the 1st Degree, which I think is a bit silly, but I guess its to limit liability.

I can't directly comment on the ceremonials from 1968, but my father received his 1st-3rd in 1969 (?), and gave me the run-down after I received mine, and the rituals described are nowhere near like they were back in the day. They more closely resemble the current ritual, but, as I mentioned above, they are incomplete.

Fr. McGivney was not a Mason, but a member of the Ancient Order of Hibernians. Its been said that any Masonic resemblence came via that order, not the Masons directly.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Zhenyghi


Fr. McGivney was not a Mason, but a member of the Ancient Order of Hibernians. Its been said that any Masonic resemblence came via that order, not the Masons directly.


Excellent point Zhenyghi

"According to Albert C. Stevens, "It may well be doubted whether it met in lodges, with systematized private means of recognition, a ritual, an initiatory ceremony, lectures, and the like modeled (but not copied) after those of Freemasons and the Odd Fellows"

Click here for more info

Every org in one way or another is modeled after the Masons. When you are the first and the largest it's only natural.



posted on Apr, 13 2007 @ 11:40 PM
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You guys are seriously ignorant. Refrain from commenting on things you know nothing about. The Knights of Columbus are an organization that was founded in direct response and opposition to Freemasonry. Father Michael J. McGiveny in New Haven, CT founded the Knights in 1882 (before information about Columbus and his brutality to the Natives surfaced). Father McGiveny was a parish priest who died when he was 38. He realized the plight that young Catholics were dealing with. Many had to lie about their religion in order to feed their starving families. Remember Irish need not apply? Italians need not apply? Catholics need not apply? Father McGiveny (who is up for sainthood) saw this and started a fraternal organization devoted to Charity Unity Fraternity and Patriotism. McGiveny also saw Catholic men dying at their jobs and Catholic families starving without their breadwinners. Thus, the Knights of Columbus formed a critical part of the community in providing for Brother Knights families if they perished. No good Catholic can be a Mason. It is true that some people who think they may be Catholic, but are definitely not in accord with the precepts of the Church, are Masons. The Knights are an organization that is devoted to all that is good in this world and furthering those causes. Our rituals are secret to protect the workings of our order but the things we accomplish are highly visible for their genuine charity. Anyone who challenges the patriotism of the Knights only has to look at WWI. The KOCs created the USO organization. The slogan "Everybody Welcome and Everything Free" was the slogan the Knights had while giving out food, blankets and goods to our soldiers over seas. A more recent example is the marching in the 4th of July parade every year. The Knights of Columbus are a whole-hearted and loving organization of Catholic males devoted to good works and defending the faith.

Matthew 7:5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. "



posted on Apr, 14 2007 @ 08:16 AM
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Hi KoC

Thanks for your post, which I found very interesting. I can quite understand the formation of the KoC as a 'response' to Freemasonry (from a catholic perspective) but I don't see any indication in your post of 'opposition'. In fact I see many parallels, and the snips from your post below could just as easily apply to freemasony as to the KoC.


...fraternal organization devoted to Charity Unity Fraternity...

...Thus, the Knights of Columbus formed a critical part of the community in providing for Brother Knights families if they perished...

...The Knights are an organization that is devoted to all that is good in this world and furthering those causes...

...Our rituals are secret to protect the workings of our order but the things we accomplish are highly visible for their genuine charity...

...The Knights of Columbus are a whole-hearted and loving organization of (Catholic) males devoted to good works...


I think freemasons should be proud and flattered that the idea has been imitated by so many good organizations like the KoC, who have found for one reason or another that pure freemasonry doesn't wotk for them in its present form.


Originally posted by KnightofColumbus
You guys are seriously ignorant. Refrain from commenting on things you know nothing about.

Welcome to the world of ATS. Unfortunately this is 'par for the course' here, freemasonry being a particularly favorite topic but other like KoC fall under the radar too. Your best approach is patience and to answer questions and correct misinfo based on your own experiences.

[edit on 4/14/07 by Trinityman]



posted on Apr, 14 2007 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by KnightofColumbus
You guys are seriously ignorant.


To whom, exactly are you referring to??? I'm a 4th Degree KC, and formerly held two offices at my last council. I've said nothing about the KCs or Fr. McGivney that wasn't true, and have defended them from the anti-KC/anti-Mason/anti-Catholics who frequent ATS.

Try not to make such sweeping comments without thinking first. It can be easy for anyone to made to look the fool, try not to put on the trappings of a clown.



posted on Apr, 14 2007 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Zhenyghi


I can't directly comment on the ceremonials from 1968, but my father received his 1st-3rd in 1969 (?), and gave me the run-down after I received mine, and the rituals described are nowhere near like they were back in the day. They more closely resemble the current ritual, but, as I mentioned above, they are incomplete.


Much the same can be said of the Masonic material on that website, but they all give at least the general gist of it. I've seen various versions of the Kof C ritual also.

Of course, I've never seen a KoFC ritual that would be considered offensive by non-Catholics. Some conspiracy theorists use bogus KofC oaths, talking about ripping open the stomachs of pregnant Protestant women, etc. As you know, that's all nonsense, and I'm sure that the material posted is at least much closer to the real thing.



posted on Apr, 14 2007 @ 02:30 PM
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I recommend anyone interested in this topic to pick up a copy of Parish Priest - a book that discusses the life of Father McGivney, the creation and early days of the KofC, and the reasons why he worked so hard to make it happen.

Honestly, there isn't that much here besides Good Works. I think that all groups that limit membership have that effect on 'outsiders' - they all want to know what we are hiding.



posted on Apr, 15 2007 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Of course, I've never seen a KoFC ritual that would be considered offensive by non-Catholics. Some conspiracy theorists use bogus KofC oaths, talking about ripping open the stomachs of pregnant Protestant women, etc. As you know, that's all nonsense, and I'm sure that the material posted is at least much closer to the real thing.


Ah, yes, the Bogus Oath. Also falsely attributed to the Jesuits (Okay, who's is it, the Jesuits or the KCs?). To my knowledge, the KCs vigorously prosecute for libel those who publicly spread/perpetuated this myth.

I received my KC 4th Degree in the Fall of 2005. I discussed it with an uncle who's a 4th Degree KC and also a 32nd Degree Mason, and we both agreed that it was very anti-climactic. Indeed, I was just waiting for the blood oath to be administered and think, "A-ha! Those anti-Catholics were right!", but sadly for them it was not the case. The whole affair was rather ho-hum, really, and with an unusually hot heat wave at that time, I didn't like being stuck outside in the afternoon heat in that tux! That being said, I wouldn't discourage any 3rd Degrees from taking it, but it just doesn't have the impact that the 1st-3rd have.

William Harper Bennett, who authored the 4th Degree did a better job with the ceremonial for the Order of Alhambra, originally intended to be the 5th and 6th Degrees of the KCs. I was honored to be asked to be on the ceremonial team this last time around and got a kick out of the whole thing, both as a particpant and (past) neophyte (actually was a Novice). Since the Alhambra is so similar to the Shrine, I wouldn't doubt at all that there are quite a few similarities between the two.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 09:55 PM
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I mean absolutely no offense to the Masons here, but the as the RCC church frowns on Freemasonry, and the tenets of being a Knight forbids candidates who are Freemasons, I have to ask - did those gentlemen who claim to be Knights and Masons lie in order to join the KofC?

I have several Catholic friends who are Masons; I have a number of Mason friends. Personally, I have nothing against Masons - the Lodge activities I have seen are not only benign but often of service to their communities. As a practicing Roman CAtholic, I am bound by the Holy See. Declaration on Masonic Associations

Once again - please don't take this as an anti-Masonic rant. But if you are a practical Catholic gentleman who has joined the Knights while a Mason, you are in violation of the precepts of the KofC and the RCC.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by shantyman
I mean absolutely no offense to the Masons here, but the as the RCC church frowns on Freemasonry, and the tenets of being a Knight forbids candidates who are Freemasons, I have to ask - did those gentlemen who claim to be Knights and Masons lie in order to join the KofC?

I have several Catholic friends who are Masons; I have a number of Mason friends. Personally, I have nothing against Masons - the Lodge activities I have seen are not only benign but often of service to their communities. As a practicing Roman CAtholic, I am bound by the Holy See. Declaration on Masonic Associations

Once again - please don't take this as an anti-Masonic rant. But if you are a practical Catholic gentleman who has joined the Knights while a Mason, you are in violation of the precepts of the KofC and the RCC.



How about a man who doesnt let his religious life interfere with his secular life and vice versa ?



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 07:22 AM
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In regard to my uncle, I really don't know if he was a Mason or KC first. He did tell me that he was a Mason before he was married, and the priest asked him if he was a member of any "secret society" to which he replied, "Yes, the Masons". At that time the priest balked about performing the marriage, but my uncle then said he'd quit the Church before he quit the Masons, at which time the priest relented.



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 07:27 AM
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I honestly admit that I dont know much about the Knights of Columbus, but I do know this.

They have some pretty good fish frys back home.


[edit on 17-4-2007 by JackCash]



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by shantyman
I mean absolutely no offense to the Masons here, but the as the RCC church frowns on Freemasonry, and the tenets of being a Knight forbids candidates who are Freemasons, I have to ask - did those gentlemen who claim to be Knights and Masons lie in order to join the KofC?


I certainly did not lie. In fact when the insurance salesman came to recruit me (which is exactly what happened) I told him I was a very active Mason and asked if that would be a problem. He indicated that it would not and that several members of the various Councils in this area are Masons. (Strangely I haven't met any of them yet) But I wear my 33rd Degree ring everywhere I go including Mass several times a week and every KC meeting I attend. I few weeks ago I grabbed a sport-coat to wear on a chilly night to a Masonic meeting and it had my K of C lapel pin on it. I wore it and no one said a word.

To what "tenets" by the way are you referring? I read and re-read the KC Constitution and Laws and cannot find Masons mentioned anywhere, and I have copies of the 3 Degrees and Masons are not mentioned. (Unless you want to count the near ver batim theft of Masonic lecture in the First Degree)
Yep. There's a line in the KC 1st that is taken directly from the Entered Apprentice Degree of Freemasonry. I nearly choked when I heard it.

I think too many people get far too hung up on such things really. Personally, as a Christian, I'm more concerned with my own soul.

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Appak]



posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 11:41 PM
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I actually wrote to the Supreme Council via their website and asked if you could be a Mason and a Knight at the same time. Their response to me was you can not. To be a Knight of Columbus you need to be in good standing with the church, which you are not if you join the Freemasons, and therefore you can not be a Knight and a Mason at the same time. That is coming from Supreme council.

I do know that in some jurisdictions it does go on, and there are ATS members that are both Knights and Masons. Again, it depends on the DD and those in charge of the area. But from the top authorities in the K of C (Supreme Council) It is not supposed to go on.



posted on Apr, 22 2007 @ 04:06 PM
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Once again campers - I wasn't trying to offend anyone; I was simply stating the rules. I know some outstanding Masons. I also know what the RCC has stated as policy. If you are a practicing Catholic, part of the deal is to obey the doctrine - this is why some people are so vehemently anti-Catholic.

As far as seperating your religious life from your secular life. If you truly practice your religion, there is no difference. If you are not going to live your faith, either find another one or don't bother. One of the problems I had with Kennedy was his public renunciation of his Cahtolic values. Kerry danced the same dance. I never heard anyone asking Lieberman when he was running if he would set aside his faith. I never heard anyone ask Bush or any other candidate for that matter. It's the ol' Aemrican prejudice towards Catholics at work here. Remember the only reason for the Know-Nothing party was to drive out the Catholics. The only reason. That's it.






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