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Court Rules Burning Pot Smell Does Not Justify Police Entry

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posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
I will also conceed that laws were made/passed for a reason--and to break them is wrong.



Good now that you have established that breaking the law is wrong, you are left with no other argument. This is not about making laws it is about enforcing those we already have.


Let me ask you Shots, what if they made something that you really liked to do against the law and there was no just cause and you were not hurting anyone else doing it, would you not be just as upset? Take anything that you would be pissed about if it your god given right was taken away from you. Would you not question the basis and reasoning of the law?

The funny thing is, I and my friends talk to police all the time in passing, and it has come up about how they personally view marijuana, and you would be surprised at the answers we have gotten. Many find it a waste of time to enforce marijuana laws and most of the time will let people go and just take whatever paraphernalia they had on them away, which to me is better than arresting them and throwing them in the slammer.




posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by Tyranny
The funny thing is, I and my friends talk to police all the time in passing, and it has come up about how they personally view marijuana, and you would be surprised at the answers we have gotten. Many find it a waste of time to enforce marijuana laws and most of the time will let people go and just take whatever paraphernalia they had on them away, which to me is better than arresting them and throwing them in the slammer.


that is correct. most coppers just take what ever you have away and let you go. some of them, this is true, just like to take it away because they smoke it. this happened to a friend...yeah a friend.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 12:43 AM
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No it isn't any different. I'm your neighbor. I smelled pot coming from your apartment.

How is that any different than, I'm your neighbor, I heard violent screams?


Well for one thing, in one case there is a reasonable amount of evidence that a person is being violently harmed or about to be violently harmed.

In the other there is a reasonable amount of evidence that someone is smoking a mildly intoxicating plant.

That's a pretty major moral difference.

[edit on 3/11/07 by xmotex]



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
No it isn't any different. I'm your neighbor. I smelled pot coming from your apartment.

How is that any different than, I'm your neighbor, I heard violent screams?

As was earlier posted, the cops are at your door for a reason.

This isn't about pot. It's about reasonable suspicion. Probable cause.


Right. I think any reasonable person (or cop) can pretty clearly distinguish the difference between a smell, and "violent screams". One doesn't signify anything at all, as many things could smell like pot, or maybe your nose just doesn't work too well. Violent screams on the other hand are a pretty good indicator that a violent crime is being committed, and that a person is actually in danger. And this is about probable cause to enter...hearing violent screams is a clear sign of a criminal act, or at least a sign that someone needs help. Simply smelling something, that, to you, smells like pot, is no probable cause at all. Maybe someone was burning incense that smelled like it. A smell is not an indicator of anything, unless you are a police dog who has actually been trained (and is capable) of detecting specific smells that mean criminal activity is present. It seems that this court agrees with me.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 12:59 AM
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You roll your own cigarettes. A cop stops you for a traffic violation and sees a stub in your ashtray. It looks just like a roach.

Probable cause?



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 12:59 AM
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I know some people might disagree with me, but I have a reason to believe our founding fathers were dope smoking witches (or warlocks). They werent christian at all and practiced occult magic, plus they were all freemasons or belong to some sort of secret society. I believe many of them cultivated hemp as well. I think that they knew what they were doing when they made the constitution and the fourth amendment that was supposed to protect us within the privacy of our own homes. That point should never be infringed upon.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by Tyranny
I know some people might disagree with me, but I have a reason to believe our founding fathers were dope smoking witches (or warlocks). They werent christian at all and practiced occult magic, plus they were all freemasons or belong to some sort of secret society. I believe many of them cultivated hemp as well. I think that they knew what they were doing when they made the constitution and the fourth amendment that was supposed to protect us within the privacy of our own homes. That point should never be infringed upon.



As a farmer, Washington grew marijuana on his farm and promoted it's growth. (In the 1790s, the crop was grown mainly for its industrial value as hemp and for soil stabilization. It was many years later that the recreational and illegal use of marijuana became popular.)


link 1


* Make the most of the Indian hemp seed, and sow it everywhere!
o George Washington in a note to his gardener at Mount Vernon (1794), The Writings of George Washington, Volume 33, page 270 (Library of Congress)
o Washington also recorded his concern that the male and female plants be seperated:

May 12-13 1765: Sowed Hemp at Muddy hole by Swamp.
August 7, 1765: —began to seperate (sic) the Male from the Female Hemp at Do —rather too late.

Some assert his interest in separating the male and female plants is an indication that he may have used Indian hemp medicinally to treat his chronic tooth aches. Others note that fiber of the male and female hemp plants have a different optimum harvest times.


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and this one . although i just discovered the site and don't know the sources. just verifies the use of marijuana by founding fathers.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 04:36 AM
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My dad does acupuncture, and the incense that he burns (moksha?) to heat the needles smells like weed.. no it smells like a commune full of hippies blazing like there's no tomarrow. I was upstairs and all of a sudden the smell hit me.. "WTF? Are my parents getting stoned or what??" Worse, he was doing acupuncture on my mom.

[edit on 3/11/2007 by ViolatoR]



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by souls

and this one . although i just discovered the site and don't know the sources. just verifies the use of marijuana by founding fathers.

Great link! souls.

Anyone who questions the benefit of cannabis or have serious interests in ecology should read it.

... ..or anyone looking for plausible ways to save the planet for that matter.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 06:41 AM
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Regardless of the illigality of marijuana (please, this is NOT the issue here), I'm leaning towards agreeing with the courts decision. Like others have said, cigarette smoke and incense could be mistaken for marijuana.

The issue I have with it is the potential abuse of the courts or the police department, who may not have probable cause otherwise to search a suspicious home (perhaps for something unrelated to marijuana) and then say "they smelled marijauna" as an excuse to search. I'm definitely NOT implying that the courts or police actually do this (I really have no idea), but it COULD happen.

Jsobecky, you do bring up a good point with this:



Originally posted by jsobecky

It could just as easily been about the distinctive smells given off from a meth lab.

Would you all be cheering it on so loudly in that case?


I'm wondering though, is there any type of electronic device the police might use in order to detect if the chemicals used to produce meth are present?

The other thing with meth labs is, unlike marijuna, they produce a very large concentration of very toxic chemicals which is not only an enviornmental hazard for the surrounding area, but also a huge risk for a fire or explosion.

Something to think about, anyway.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by shots


This ruling could be a set back for law enforcement agencies around the US. Up until now police were allowed under probable cause to search vehicles, now drug dealers and users will be able to get away. It is s shame.

www.sltrib.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Are you dumb??? You must be. You don't need a warrant to search some ones car
There is nothing wrong with marijuana any way. Get with the time you god fearing americans(offence intended)



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 07:10 AM
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My opinion is that many LEO are corrupt enough to lie about what they smell anyway, so unless they can bottle that supposed cannabis odor and present it at the court date however many months later it may be, they should not be able to base their actions on "evidence" that cannot be reproduced on demand and the recognition of which is highly subjective.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 07:46 AM
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My point is, you're taking away one of the 5 senses as a discovery mechanism.

What's next, taking away sight, because not everybody has 20-20 vision?



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 07:50 AM
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I think the issue here is that the dangers of using marijuana smell as PC to search a residence. As was stated above, there is ample ability to abuse this it. It's too easy for an officer to say, "I smelled marijuana, and proceeded to search the house. I found a gun in his bottom dresser drawer. I found no marijuana." It's too much of a subjective judgment that is in no way verifiable after the incident. It's not like a gun being in plain sight on the coffee table.

From the direction of this thread, it looks like Shots and Jsobecky want to enthusiastically enforce every law on the book, including Throwing pickle juice on a trolley in Rhode Island, or selling hollow logs in Tennessee. Should we question anyone we see eating a pickle, for fear their juice made it's way onto a trolley.


Remember guys, if you had your way, and every pot smoker was arrested, you'd have very few interesting people to chat with here on ATS. Then what would you do with yourselves?



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 08:46 AM
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Waow, the U.S. are going easy on drugs...haha. Keep aware, cause someday they'll send cops to check if your cooking is not too burnt !



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 11:05 AM
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I had a brother that was always in trouble with the law. One night while he was away, two police officers knocked on my door. They claimed a "woman's scream" was heard from my home and needed to conduct a search.

They didn't have a search warrant and I knew they were really looking for my brother(he had an arrest warrant). I lived in a nice residential neighborhood with wide streets and the officers were in their cars. I was home alone and there were no females around.

In many cases cops also use the "marijuana smell" excuse to justify searching someone's car or home without a warrant. Government employees will abuse their authority if given the opportunity.

[edit on 11-3-2007 by simonmagus]



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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Here all you advocates should educate yourself, you are being duped by the use of false statistics


Drug advocates often select only those portions of the available data that support their position, ignoring facts and context that would point to a very different conclusion.


Untagling the statistics

Take the time although I doubt you will. it is very interesting reading.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 11:31 AM
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I'm not a smoker or even a drinker but I support marijuana legalization. Here is an interesting web site from a former narcotics officer/trainer. I encourage everyone to check out his opinion and customer reviews.

www.nevergetbusted.com...

[edit on 11-3-2007 by simonmagus]



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 11:34 AM
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Yeah shots,

To me it looks like people can pick and choose which statistics they believe and disbelieve. And both sides seem to be doing the same thing.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by shots

Here all you advocates should educate yourself, you are being duped by the use of false statistics


Drug advocates often select only those portions of the available data that support their position, ignoring facts and context that would point to a very different conclusion.


Untagling the statistics

Take the time although I doubt you will. it is very interesting reading.


just by the fact that it comes from the white house is enough to dismiss it as unreliable. to many chances of suppression of real numbers, and real facts.



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