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Court Rules Burning Pot Smell Does Not Justify Police Entry

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posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by JamesMcMahn

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
What about the overwhelming majority of people who wear patchouli oil that are pot smokers? Should that also justify a search? Why or why not?


I can tell the difference in patchouli oil and marijuana.



Care to test your theory? I'm not gonna lie I don't like you... your a *removed* cop who thinks the government should protect us from ourselves... you don't believe in the freedom of privacy, that every citizen in this country has... Hopefully someone can find your home and set up closed circuit cameras on you... maybe then we'll see if you think the government should protect your from yourself.

ohhh... Please contact the University of MARYLAND Sense and Smell Center... They're the ones who did the marijuana study, they will prove to you you don't know the diffence... at least between burning oil and pot...


P.S. the only way to truly know what pot smells like is to be around it... ALOT... *removed*



Coven OUT


P.P.s.s I respect cops who focus on protecting the community from violence and crime, Not harassing citizens who smoke pot in their own homes...

so get your # straight, and maybe the next citizen you pull over won't be scared/pissed of/at you.

(oh and I love how you think the NARC on your NEIGHBORS is a GOOD PLAN... ORWELLIAN AT IT's BEST... POLICE YOURSELVES SO WE DON'T HAVE TOO....)

Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on 12-3-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:31 PM
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Woah coven, that was a bit harsh. I'm with you on the general idea (leave the nonviolent criminals alone and such) but no need for such harsh personal attacks.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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Ouch...

I think someone needs to take a deep breath and step away from the computer before making their next post. I have a feeling a disagree with James as well coven. But... Maybe we can keep this discussion civil?



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:52 PM
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Don't get a wrong view of me, I am just talking from experiance. I never said that the government should protect us from ourselves, I said that is the base of the drug laws. I used to smoke pot when I was about 16, so yes, I do know what it smells like. Drug bust's arent my thing, but as an officer you will have to deal with drugs more than anything nowadays.

I havent used insults and name calling, I do hope that you will engage in civil conversation from now on.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
I havent used insults and name calling, I do hope that you will engage in civil conversation from now on.


If he doesn't you can just taser the little bastage!!


I smok(ed) a lot of grass in my time and I have no Idea what pachouli oil is. Is it like Old Spice?

Peace



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 03:11 PM
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Dr. Love,

Have you ever smelled a hippy? Smell past the BO, and into their soul. That is where you'll find the petchouli.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 03:14 PM
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heres how it should work...

prior knowledge in addition to the smell should work, If it is a known drug house then yep they should be able to enter the residence.

however, I think that a persons olfactory senses allone should not be grounds to enter a home. A persons sense of smell can be off via the flu or a cold to where they are mestakenly thinking they are smelling pot when in fact they could be smelling something else.

Just my 2 credits...



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Dr. Love,

Have you ever smelled a hippy? Smell past the BO, and into their soul. That is where you'll find the petchouli.


What?



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Have you ever smelled a hippy? Smell past the BO, and into their soul. That is where you'll find the petchouli.


It's true... It is also known as hippy sweat.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
heres how it should work...

prior knowledge in addition to the smell should work, If it is a known drug house then yep they should be able to enter the residence.

however, I think that a persons olfactory senses allone should not be grounds to enter a home. A persons sense of smell can be off via the flu or a cold to where they are mestakenly thinking they are smelling pot when in fact they could be smelling something else.


Would apply this if the officer was there for another reason like serving a warrant or checking a complaint.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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JamesMcMahn,

what police department do you work for? in your entire carrier of working with the police department. have you observed, been informed, or have been involved in using absurd reasons as probable cause in order to conduct a search by yourself or other officers? have you observed, been informed, or have been involved in distorting evidence and testimony by yourself or other officers in order to make make their case? please answer truthfully as any answer you give will not be a surprise.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 08:09 PM
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Stepping in here for a reason. Pot is usually a taboo subject as we stray from the issues and into the areas that the T&C have a problem with. 11 pages of decent discussion? Excellent.

Let's keep it clean folks. This is a good discussion. Let's not mar it with personal attacks.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by coven
P.S. the only way to truly know what pot smells like is to be around it... ALOT... SMOKE MUCH PIGGY?

Coven OUT


P.P.s.s I respect cops who focus on protecting the community from violence and crime, Not harassing citizens who smoke pot in their own homes...

so get your # straight, and maybe the next citizen you pull over won't be scared/pissed of/at you.

(oh and I love how you think the NARC on your NEIGHBORS is a GOOD PLAN... ORWELLIAN AT IT's BEST... POLICE YOURSELVES SO WE DON'T HAVE TOO....)


i understand your rage, i had encounters with police where they were just absurd as far as being respectful, "peace keepers", law enforcers. i have learned not to make the same mistake as them as far as "profiling" goes, just because a few of them act a certain way. not all of them are corrupt, i have met some that i really like. but in the end, they are all trying to protect their "brothers", they understand each other.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by coven

Originally posted by JamesMcMahn

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
What about the overwhelming majority of people who wear patchouli oil that are pot smokers? Should that also justify a search? Why or why not?


I can tell the difference in patchouli oil and marijuana.



Care to test your theory? I'm not gonna lie I don't like you... your a *removed* cop who thinks the government should protect us from ourselves... you don't believe in the freedom of privacy, that every citizen in this country has... Hopefully someone can find your home and set up closed circuit cameras on you... maybe then we'll see if you think the government should protect your from yourself.

ohhh... Please contact the University of MARYLAND Sense and Smell Center... They're the ones who did the marijuana study, they will prove to you you don't know the diffence... at least between burning oil and pot...


P.S. the only way to truly know what pot smells like is to be around it... ALOT... *removed*





sad a moderator takes out the accusation of smoking... also if you people knew anything about the 60's you wouldn't take out PIG.... IT'S A EUPHEMISM FOR A POLICE OFFICER... SORRY MOD... YOUR WRONG... I didn't say anything offensive, *nobody said anything about donuts or beating/shooting innocent people* hmmm... maybe I should move to that arguement... I guess it's less offensive.



Coven



P.S. Why is everyone listening to a cop from KYOTO, JAPAN??? Last I CHECKED HE KNOWS NOTHING OF AMERICAN LAWS....


(Click on members names to research them)

also funny that you and shots have about a 3 page dialogue about this, yet your listed as buddies... maybe somebody coerced you into coming on to back up there arguements???

ahhh

I guess you guys think ATSER's aren't that bright, and youmight just get away with it.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by souls
JamesMcMahn,

what police department do you work for? in your entire carrier of working with the police department. have you observed, been informed, or have been involved in using absurd reasons as probable cause in order to conduct a search by yourself or other officers? have you observed, been informed, or have been involved in distorting evidence and testimony by yourself or other officers in order to make make their case? please answer truthfully as any answer you give will not be a surprise.


I was a corporal on the Danville Police Department, Then later became a Virginia State Trooper. Yes, I have seen absurd reasons for searching known drug houses and that wasnt very often, usually it was a rookie that wanted to look good, and usually they were griped out by the Captain of Patrol and made to do mall duty for a month(torture). Almost every officer has at least one time when they are in court and change the "facts" a little bit, I did it myself once when a man had beaten his wife, I knew she was stuck in the "domestic circle" anf would never get out unless he went to jail.


JamesMcMahn



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by coven
[P.S. Why is everyone listening to a cop from KYOTO, JAPAN??? Last I CHECKED HE KNOWS NOTHING OF AMERICAN LAWS....


(Click on members names to research them)

also funny that you and shots have about a 3 page dialogue about this, yet your listed as buddies... maybe somebody coerced you into coming on to back up there arguements???

ahhh

I guess you guys think ATSER's aren't that bright, and youmight just get away with it.


I was an officer in the Danville Police Department, then an officer in the Virginia State Police if you would read, I live in Japan now, I was born and raised in Danville Virginia.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 09:25 PM
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also to get back on topic, I am not attacking Mr. McMahn personally, I am attacking his JOB... Police Enforcement worldwide has developed into a paramilitary force, don't do this don't say that, and If you do, we'll put you in jail.
This country was founded on the right of innocence. You think I did something wrong? PROVE IT... That is as American as Apple Pie. our system has changed. It has become, if you have the money, hire the best attorney you can to prove yourself innocent. I was listening to a comic the other day and he did a great skit, basically, he said "what is this DNA S*? back in the day of columbo, dragnet, you could leave anything at the crime scene. Well did ya do it? You got anything that says I did it? No... Well then no I didn't.. and you could leave your ID, and grandmother in the room and never get caught. Now you kill someone,and fart in the room, they take an air sample and two weeks later, We found Brocolli and steak in your trash, your guilty lets go..."

It's a fairly valid point, sent to an extreme, should the cops be able to use any means necessary to criminalize the General Public? I feel they shouldn't, and the constitution says they CAN'T... and better yet we don't have to criminalize ourselves... For some reason cops think they're above this law... When they do, They do themselves and every other American Citizen Harm.

I take this to heart because I have had my rights to privacy stepped on three times, 1 was dismissed because the Judge knew the cop didn't have a right to search my car; the second 2 different judges said it was dismissed but the DA brought it back up (just as bad as cops those bloodsuckers) and got me sentenced by a judge in a felony court (misdemeanor charge). the Third was my mistake, and I was a teenager so I wouldn't have known If I was in the right or not anyways.

all 3 charges were for a 1/8th of an ounce or less. All three Plea bargins were
11months 29days Probation, with one failed drug test 11/29 jail sentence, Basically, a way for the government to fiddle in my pocket one more time.

2 busts were illegal pull overs, one the officer said he followed me for 3 miles when I had just merged onto the interstate, Luckily my father was following me in and witnessed the entire deal. The other I was leaving work and an officer stopped me saying my vehicle was suspected of being involved in a theft ring at my local mall (across the street from where I worked) Luckily my boss saw everything. I lost my job but he testified on my behalf that the officer did not have reason to search my vehicle. So forgive me if I think the Legal system is a big part of the corruption problems in our overall Government Structure. Oh and I have DETECTIVE FRIENDS... Cops that solve real crimes, not wasting there time writing traffic tickets, busting drug USERS, and wasting tax dollars driving up and down-excuse me- Patrolling our roads.


So that said way back to the original point...



found the article I have been talking about, I will post in full next post...

Smell and Taste Center, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Our findings suggest that the odor of marijuana was not reliably discernable by persons with an excellent sense of smell in either case. These studies are the first to examine the ability of humans to detect marijuana in simulated real-life situations encountered by law enforcement officials, and are particularly relevant to the issue of probable cause.

merry christmas dude... YOU CAN'T PROVE YOU CAN SMELL POT...




COVEN... OVER AND OUT



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 09:44 PM
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k so maybe not actual study, I'm not paying $50 to prove a point right now...
however

This is a link to the Bio of the Doctor who performed the study

www.med.upenn.edu...

His name is Richard L. Doty... (if your having a problem with this topic legally, highly advise writing and asking for a copy of the study, and any other information he could offer of assistance; cool guy and glad to help)



link to center for S & T

www.med.upenn.edu...


Link to Reports done by center for s & t


www.med.upenn.edu...

and finally a basic overview of the study in question taken from ingentaconnect


Abstract:
The 4th Amendment of the United States Constitution protects American citizens against unreasonable search and seizure without probable cause. Although law enforcement officials routinely rely solely on the sense of smell to justify probable cause when entering vehicles and dwellings to search for illicit drugs, the accuracy of their perception in this regard has rarely been questioned and, to our knowledge, never tested. In this paper, we present data from two empirical studies based upon actual legal cases in which the odor of marijuana was used as probable cause for search. In the first, we simulated a situation in which, during a routine traffic stop, the odor of packaged marijuana located in the trunk of an automobile was said to be detected through the driver's window. In the second, we investigated a report that marijuana odor was discernable from a considerable distance from the chimney effluence of diesel exhaust emanating from an illicit California grow room. Our findings suggest that the odor of marijuana was not reliably discernable by persons with an excellent sense of smell in either case. These studies are the first to examine the ability of humans to detect marijuana in simulated real-life situations encountered by law enforcement officials, and are particularly relevant to the issue of probable cause.


Now if a cop wants to argue with science, from the leading people in there field, go right ahead, but don't think you are going to convince me, or any of the other science comprehending ATSer's.


Coven

P.S.

Mr. McMahan do any time at quantico? seems you would've been a prime candidate for their recruitment, being a good state trooper for VIRGINIA...
and Kyoto has a MAJOR military base, doesn't it? are you Upper Echilon Dis Info, or are you that cop that hit the lottery and moved to a country that a regular plane ticket costs 5-6grand, (don't want to ask what the cargo flight cost for you to move to Kyoto...) Also did the VHP train you in Japanese or did you learn on your own?

Kinda confused how an ex cop who understands MODERN drug laws, could've lived in Virginia and then on a BLUE COLLAR SALARY, make a few hundred thousand dollar move... Nice to know some police officers are getting paid properly for their work... My detective Buddy sure isn't.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by coven
Nice to know some police officers are getting paid properly for their work... My detective Buddy sure isn't.


So you bust a guy with a kilo of coke...charge him for a half a kilo, then dump the other half on to the street and make a tidy sum. All part of "protecting and serving" the community. Yes, this has happened in many large city departments, Chicago had a big problem with this recently as I recall.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by coven
Mr. McMahan do any time at quantico? seems you would've been a prime candidate for their recruitment, being a good state trooper for VIRGINIA...
and Kyoto has a MAJOR military base, doesn't it? are you Upper Echilon Dis Info, or are you that cop that hit the lottery and moved to a country that a regular plane ticket costs 5-6grand, (don't want to ask what the cargo flight cost for you to move to Kyoto...) Also did the VHP train you in Japanese or did you learn on your own?

Kinda confused how an ex cop who understands MODERN drug laws, could've lived in Virginia and then on a BLUE COLLAR SALARY, make a few hundred thousand dollar move... Nice to know some police officers are getting paid properly for their work... My detective Buddy sure isn't.


I have a job over here working with the Self-Defense Forces, it ays quite well, not that the State Police didnt. I am a part owner of Baldwin and Associates Realty as well.



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