Phoenix lights...

Is anyone else on this forum from the Phoenix area and have experiences with the "lights"?

I'm in Phoenix. I didn't see the lights but I did see they are having a UFO photograph exhibition at the art museum.

There was a show on last night about the Phoenix lights. It does seem that it was another rerun but I watch because you usually find that you miss something.

Jim Dilettoso from the Village Labs there in Phoenix who I believe has great credientials tested them and said the lights didn't match any known lights that he compared them to including flares. This man I feel is very honest and trustworthy. They had another Lab look at the pictures and they said flares going behind the mountain. The guys looked and seemed like they were bought if you know what I mean.

The Council woman I give credit to, she tried. I noticed she even went to the meetings with the observers and Jim.

The Council woman said the Council did nothing and she asked her friend John McCain to look into it and he distanced himself from her and this subject. As she said she thought he was a friend.
Now isn't it amazing this man is running for Pres. in 08 I wouldn't vote for him.

There has been things I have heard on the news about McCain and the President being at odds but you know they are buds because when Katrina happened the Pres. was with McCain in Arizona celebrating I believe McCain's birthday.

As Jim Dilettoso said it is truly an unknown.

I have been to Arizona a few times for vacation and I have seen things, I stayed in Scottsdale.

[edit on 10-3-2007 by observe50]

I went to the exhibit on UFOs at ASU when it opened and was surprised at how good it is. There was a thoughtful selection of enlarged photos as well as an interesting slideshow with facts and stories. They included many of the popular UFO shots that remain very hard to disprove.
I talked to the professor who put it together—I think he’s trying to focus on societal belief systems (what people choose to believe, etc.) by raising the question rather than trying to show the public that UFOs are real.
I also talked to a Channel 3 producer interviewing people at the gathering on camera. I asked if he was going to be editing the piece too—he said yes, and I asked him to be fair on the subject and not show believers to be kooks. He agreed, so we’ll have to see when the piece shows tonight.
I also got a chance to talk to Dr. Keiti about her book on the Phoneix Lights. She is an amazing woman and very well spoken. She was interviewed on camera as well. Then they interviewed some students who were merely curious about the showing—the said the usual “I don’t know, but I don’t think they are real” kind of stuff—which I’m guessing is going to be on the air.
Overall I think this exhibit is a step in the right direction, it gives validity to the subject and shows examples of UFO proof that is almost impossible to dismiss out-of-hand. However, just like on the internet, you need to look into it a little and think about it for yourself.

You are right this subject has to be looked at seriously.

I will say that the news have been a little more open lately and somewhat more serious.

We that know just have to wait until people have there own experiences. Trying to share information and talk about it sometimes/mostly is useless.

Many decades have been wasted because people were to closed minded. You can see how people are here on ATS they take every word look it up and dissect it.

I don't think people will ever change there ways and this is what will do this planet in.

Originally posted by observe50
I don't think people will ever change there ways and this is what will do this planet in.

Its not a matter of being narrowminded, people are logical. You cant ever change that, no. If we dont employ logic to everything we do, civilization as we know it would probably grind to a halt.

Take the infamous Pheonix Lights:

There is a like a 99% chance that the second sighting (and the one everyone associate the event with) was flares. Why deny it? No point. Spot lights that fall down slowly and dissapear behind a mountain. They look like flares, they behave like flares, we got quite a bit evidence they where flares. They exhibit absolutely no characteristics of an "alien controlled" UFO.

The first sighting is another matter though. We have no footage, only witnesses. What they say they saw couldnt possibly have been flares. What was it? No one knows. But the chances of it being military (ie airplane/planes) is infinitely more likely than it being an "alien controlled" UFO. It was truly a UFO though, yes. But there's little point in digging deeper into that too, cause we simply have to little to go on.

So its got nothing to do with being closed minded. Its cold hard logic.

[edit on 10-3-2007 by merka]

I agree, the lights on the videos are most likely flares. Bruce Maccabee and others looked pretty closely.

However, the first events are certainly strange and I do not think military exercises adequately explain them.

Steven Greer as you all know,did offer us some insight of this incident.In his work "The shadow government's hidden agenda on UFO's", where there are few paragraphs say:

"One of the operative said: you can use our figital labs t oput together all the videotapes for this meeting for Congress..."

"We had collected videotapes and photographic images of UFOs from all over the world.Neil Cummingham was going to help us put together the best-ever images to show.Of course, we knew who this man was and we knowingly walked right into Spook Central."

"I had flown into Phoenix on a US Airways flight, and as we were landing I began the CE-5 protocols.I went into a expanded state of conciousness and into space and began vectoring extraterrestrial vehicles into the Phoenix area.I told the ETs: It'd be great if you can do something undeniable while we are here that we can put into this footage to share with the Congress,whom we will be briefing in a couple weeks......This was on March 13th,1997,and the briefing for Congress was in early April."

"The lab is in Tempe, Arizona, and while we were working there someone ran in all excited. He said, there are enormous UFOs in trhe skies over Phoenix and they are being filmed!...It was the Phoenix Light! And the event was a CE-5"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, from this article, if the information this operative gave was good, then the Phoenix Light incident was clearly staged " in between". Someone obviously has the knowledge of this incident 3 months beforehand.

[edit on 11-3-2007 by manlyphall]

Fife Symington- the same governor who joked about the lights by having a staff member dress up like an alien at the press conference now admits that he saw the UFO craft himself, and is sure it was an alien spacecraft!

Check out the video on YouTube: www.youtube.com... . Quoting him “I suspect, unless the Defense Department proves us wrong, that it was some form of an alien spacecraft. “(!!!)
By the way, in case you did not know, the video they keep showing of the seven or so blinking lights in the video is actually showing the flares dropped that night, the actual UFO event occurred much earlier—if you look on the net for it, you can see the REAL video of the craft—there is only one that I know of that shows the triangular shape and real craft.

Jim Dilettoso from the Village Labs there in Phoenix who I believe has great credientials tested them and said the lights didn't match any known lights that he compared them to including flares. This man I feel is very honest and trustworthy. They had another Lab look at the pictures and they said flares going behind the mountain. The guys looked and seemed like they were bought if you know what I mean.

Almost every serious researcher has denounced Dilettoso's "analysis" as you cannot accurately analyze the spectrum of light captured on film and then compare it in that fashion, and expect to get a match. There are FAR too many variables, and it's a fool's errand. You could have two different cameras film the same object, and you'd not match up the light analysis...possibly even with the same exact aperture settings, etc.

Forget the other lab, find the footage on the web, and look for yourself. If you have the means, superimpose (or even look side by side) with the daylight footage of the same area. You'll get the same result. The flares disappear behind the mountain just as they should, in the order they should, and do fall, and do only stay lit for less than 4 minutes, i.e. perfectly in line with flare duration.

Now, the first event, the 8pm one, that's a completely different ballgame...and is still debatable, but the 10pm event, captured on at least 6 different video cameras, has been fairly conclusively shown to be flares, specifically flares dropped by the visiting MD National Guard, Operation Snowbird, by A-10's.

The 8pm story is the real event worthy of investigation here. Sadly, all we have to go on is one highly grainy video with no reference points, and eyewitness testimony only.... The real thing that hurts the 8pm event though, is where were all the video cameras during that event if it a) lasted longer, and b) was more spectacular....? Perhaps that's the greatest mystery...or perhaps it helps the solution...

[edit on 28-3-2007 by Gazrok]

People need to understand that the Phoenix Lights were indeed two different events that occured close together.

Here is a video about the large triangle UFO that was seen by many. There is no way it was flares.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Gazrok
[

Almost every serious researcher has denounced Dilettoso's "analysis" as you cannot accurately analyze the spectrum of light captured on film and then compare it in that fashion, and expect to get a match. There are FAR too many variables, and it's a fool's errand. You could have two different cameras film the same object, and you'd not match up the light analysis...possibly even with the same exact aperture settings, etc.

Forget the other lab, find the footage on the web, and look for yourself. If you have the means, superimpose (or even look side by side) with the daylight footage of the same area. You'll get the same result. The flares disappear behind the mountain just as they should, in the order they should, and do fall, and do only stay lit for less than 4 minutes, i.e. perfectly in line with flare duration.

Now, the first event, the 8pm one, that's a completely different ballgame...and is still debatable, but the 10pm event, captured on at least 6 different video cameras, has been fairly conclusively shown to be flares, specifically flares dropped by the visiting MD National Guard, Operation Snowbird, by A-10's.


[edit on 28-3-2007 by Gazrok]

I apologize if this link has already made the rounds, the Bad Astronomer yesterday pointed to a 1998 in-depth analysis of the Phoenix Lights by one Tim Printy. He pretty much rips Dilletosso a new one, makes a compelling case for the flares in the second event, and casts a lot of doubt on the witness to the 08:00 event. Buried in there is a lot of valuable advice on what NOT to believe about nocturnal lights.

In my view, we can't reach any firm conclusion on the earlier event, but there isn't much to go on.

Originally posted by edwardthe8th


Check out the video on YouTube: www.youtube.com... .

that video by 'running with sissors'
had little to do with Phoenix Lights....(after the first 2 minutes or there abouts)

but there was an important point made in the interview with
an eyewitness residing in Chandler (a suburb/adjacent city to Phoenix)

the eyewitness stated that he saw the object/lights North of his backyard location!

He knew the surrounding cities clustered around Phoenix,
& i infer he knew their situate locations also,
Scottsdale, Mesa, Tempe are also more directly due north of his Chandler
eyewitness site...

the interesting point about His viewing the object/lights to the North
is that the distant Goldwater target range is mostly Due West or WSW
from his vantage point...
which therefore negates the theory of 30-50 mile away 'flare drops'
that some offer is the explaination of the PhoenixLights,

so, if we can believe a group of eyewitnesses about the direction they observed the 13March1997 incident, a reporter or analyst could triangulate
& come to a reasonable assumption of just where the craft/lights phenomena was in the AZ sky

go to any MAP source & see about Chandler & downtown Phoenix
&the AZ bombing range

Remember...two different events and sighting periods...

And yes, Printy is pretty much usually on his game...when dealing with the facts, but when it comes to witnesses, he tends to make a lot of generalizations. Still, his analytical work is always very good, and great reads....

For example, his generalizations that the 8pm event witnesses are overblowing their accounts, or getting the times wrong doesn't jive when looking at the times of the NUFORC reports, etc. Such records clearly show two different events, regardless of what you think is responsible for either event... However, I do concede that it is indeed puzzling that so many would video tape the flares event, and NOT the slow moving triangular craft sighting... Suspiscious? Yes. Conclusive that nothing was there for the 8pm event? Certainly not.....

[edit on 28-3-2007 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by St Udio

but there was an important point made in the interview with
an eyewitness residing in Chandler (a suburb/adjacent city to Phoenix)

the eyewitness stated that he saw the object/lights North of his backyard location!

He knew the surrounding cities clustered around Phoenix,
& i infer he knew their situate locations also,
Scottsdale, Mesa, Tempe are also more directly due north of his Chandler
eyewitness site...

the interesting point about His viewing the object/lights to the North
is that the distant Goldwater target range is mostly Due West or WSW
from his vantage point...
which therefore negates the theory of 30-50 mile away 'flare drops'
that some offer is the explaination of the PhoenixLights,

so, if we can believe a group of eyewitnesses about the direction they observed the 13March1997 incident, a reporter or analyst could triangulate
& come to a reasonable assumption of just where the craft/lights phenomena was in the AZ sky

go to any MAP source & see about Chandler & downtown Phoenix
&the AZ bombing range

We know that eyewitnesses can be wildly wrong about such things, so I wouldn't let one eyewitness account change the basic conclusion. We also don't know if this eyewitness saw the same lights.

Many people - even smart, educated people don't know which way is North from their own house, especially at night. It's rare that astronomy is a required course.

I did a quick mesurement of the distance of the lights between each other and found out that that are almost exactly apart. the quality of the image and blurness does not permit to do an exact mesure, however, what are the possibilities to duplicate these distances with flares?





[edit on 28-3-2007 by canceredge]

Hello.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a video that shows the craft from the Phoenix lights "blockng out" the stars or a video where you can see a distinct shape. All I have seen is what appears to be flares from afar. But eyewitnesses say that there was a distinct L shape to it, and it was HUGE.