Harsh Reality of Iraq. ** warning image may disturb

Originally posted by marg6043
So connected I am to trust Google then and how do you call it?

research?

Hum, give me some juicy links, and trust me we will digest them very fast.

Seriously... are you ok? Is there something wrong with you? I gave you a link that shows 100+ links that you ask for...

BBS, MSNBC, CNN, and more! Go for it, click it.

Originally posted by marg6043
...............
Casualties, terrorist [depending which side you support], sectarian violence and is all Iraqis fault for not been more agreeable after the liberation

You call the insurgents and terrorists "just people who didn't agree with deposing Saddam's regime?...

The same insurgents/terrorists that bombed the buildings where millions of iraqis went to vote....

The same insurgents/terrorists who even the mention of them among Iraqis have caused the death of 1,000 people from an stampede?....

the same insurgents/terrorists who use civilians as shields, and strap bombs to children and tell them to go where coalition forces are that they would be given candy?...

Or the same insurgents/terrorists that brainwash children and adolescents into strapping bombs to kill coalition forces?...

The same insurgents/terrorists that have killed, and keep killing more Iraqis than they have killed coalition forces?.....

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Muaddib]

I bet marg and those people who are blaming the U.S. for the pictures seen in the original article did not take a look at those sites i gave with the pictures of what Saddam regime was doing to the Iraqi people....

Is ok people the argument between Saddam killings and the mass killing after the liberation is justified because now is not Saddam doing the killing anymore . . .

Is the liberation the one killing now and that is justified . . .

Unbelivable.

An estimated 655,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion, according to a survey by a US university.
The research compares mortality rates before and after the invasion from 47 randomly chosen areas in Iraq.

news.bbc.co.uk...

liberation can be so bloody but is worth it, right.

I bet that way of thinking make the happy war people and the bush administration sleep better at night . . .

Originally posted by Muaddib
I bet marg and those people who are blaming the U.S. for the pictures seen in the original article did not take a look at those sites i gave with the pictures of what Saddam regime was doing to the Iraqi people....

Yeah I bet.... They have one agenda, and see things only one way. They think everything that is happening in Iraq wasn't happening before USA showed up, because their controlled media source had no reason to report about it. Now that USA is there taking care of business, and the media is all over it, they think its all of USA's fault.

They see some blood in Iraq, and they automatically think it is the USA's fault. They are sheeple, with no real insight as to what is really happening.




[edit on 9-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by marg6043
Is ok people the argument between Saddam killings and the mass killing after the liberation is justified because now is not Saddam doing the killing anymore . . .

Is the liberation the one killing now and that is justified . . .

Unbelivable.

An estimated 655,000 Iraqis have died since 2003 who might still be alive but for the US-led invasion, according to a survey by a US university.
The research compares mortality rates before and after the invasion from 47 randomly chosen areas in Iraq.

news.bbc.co.uk...

liberation can be so bloody but is worth it, right.

I bet that way of thinking make the happy war people and the bush administration sleep better at night . . .

marg seriously you are pissing a lot of people off with your nonsense. You have no clue what you are talking about...

You are throwing a number of 655,000 and you are not telling people HOW they were killed. Most of those deaths were NOT by the hand of USA soldiers... GET A CLUE.


B.T.W. "Peace in the mid-east" was a term highly used for many many years, as an ultimate wish. Now, it will soon become true, and the lost lives are worth it.

Soon Iraq will be a USA allie. Just like USA and Japan.

Originally posted by tombangelta

You have voted Agit8dChop for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

oil runs thicker than blood.

one day they will pay for there actions.

I wish that were true tombangelta but the sick reality is those bas***** won't. It will take an entire revolution from the citizens and not by the legal system BTW. We've seen both our governments not give a rats behind about the legal system.

How can the government actually be stopped?

[edit on 9-3-2007 by leafer]

Mod Note: WOT Posting Conduct – Review Link.

Mod Edit: Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

I suggest members review the above links before posting.
I'd hate to see Agit8 excellenct posts go by the wayside as members go off topic and get personal instead of debating the OP.
War is ugly.
But let's be courteous to the OP and each other.

Please!

"They are sheeple, with no real insightinsite as to what is really happening"

Are you living on the same planet? Oh my god! Ok, the media lied that there wasn't bombs going off on a daily basis in Iraq before we invaded.

Iraq an alli, you are dillusional.

The shia miltia goverment is going to be our alli, Sadr given diplomatic status. Would you like to buy some beach front property in New Mexico?

[edit on 9-3-2007 by rich1974]

Originally posted by marg6043
Is ok people the argument between Saddam killings and the mass killing after the liberation is justified because now is not Saddam doing the killing anymore . . .

Is the liberation the one killing now and that is justified . . .

Unbelivable.

Where did i say the deaths are justifiable?...

No death of regular civilians is justifiable... but Saddam's regime did worse...

Now the remnants of Saddam's regime, plus the help they are getting from Iran, Syria and others are going on killing sprees, they kill more Iraqi civilians, ambush coalition forces who have to fight back, and are in a constant state of alertness and paranoia, because the insurgents/terrorists disguise themselves as civilians, which unfortuately causes some civilians being mistaken as insurgents, and the coalition gets all the blame for these deaths?....

Perhaps if you take a look at the bombings, and attacks the insurgents and terrorists have been doing, you will find that they are killing more Iraqis than they are kiling coalition forces.... For very coalition force they kill, probably 40-100 Iraqis are killed by insurgents.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Connected are you playing games with me?

From your sources,

A Pentagon official who confirmed the findings said that all the weapons were pre-1991 vintage munitions "in such a degraded state they couldn't be used for what they are designed for."

www.breitbart.com...

The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.

Iraqi Chemical Stash Uncovered
Post-Invasion Cache Could Have Been For Use in Weapons

The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.

Most of the links are news that has been debunked and link to old Saddam cache of weapons prior to 92.

BTW you are using links that you said to me were no reliable when I used them myself.

BTW denying ignorance is what ATS is all about.

Originally posted by marg6043
He didn't have any connected that is why he could not turn them over . . .


Saddam agree in 2002 to have more inspections . . .but the UN inspector found none . . . US didn't believe this . . .

Ummm sorry, the UNSC in Res. 1441 gave Iraq a "final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" and found Iraq still "remains in material breach" of past resolutions. Even after that resolution Iraq was less than forthcomming about information, inspections and interviews regarding it's disarmament. Iraq did not get a "clean bill of health" as you imply. There was still considerable doubt by inspectors that Iraq was not totally forthcoming.

Iraq timeline 2002-2003

UNMOVIC and IAEA inspectors had stated during briefings to the Security Council on January 27 (2003) and February 14 (2003) that Iraq was gradually increasing its cooperation with the United Nations. Yet, both deemed the cooperation insufficient.

Originally posted by Connected

We are still finding WMD's till this day.

SHUUSH

Post a link to support your claim. If you dont, you are only spreading your opinion and not offering one bit of logical discussion. you can call people sheep all you want, but facts are facts. People have posted dozens of links in this thread, and I have yet to see any from you backing up your claims. I have not read a single story (not even on fox) that describes WMD's being found - let alone till this day....

Originally posted by Muaddib


No death of regular civilians is justifiable... but Saddam's regime did worse...

And I rest my case and stand for what I said, just because Saddam was killing his own people it was worse, compare to the death toll that is going on since the liberators got rid of Saddam . . .now the occupation is bringing death and . . .

Is all justified . . . right muaddib?

Originally posted by pavil
Ummm sorry, the UNSC in Res. 1441 gave Iraq a "final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" and found Iraq still "remains in material breach" of past resolutions. Even after that resolution Iraq was less than forthcomming about information, inspections and interviews regarding it's disarmament. Iraq did not get a "clean bill of health" as you imply. There was still considerable doubt by inspectors that Iraq was not totally forthcoming.

Still UN didn't found the MWDs and the case for the war was already in full gear with Collin power at the UN. . .

Still the war went on US invaded Iraq with nothing than speculation and Saddam was not the one that declared war on the US.

Still no MWDs to be found after the invasion.

And yes I was aware of what traspired after Saddam got tire of having the inspectors looking for something that he didn't had after all. . .

Originally posted by Muaddib
Here is another link with pictures of what Saddam did to the Kurds who are now living in relative peace in northern Iraq, and have been thanking the coalition for getting rid of Saddam, which of course you won't hear on the news.

Warning, very graphic pictures!!!

www.kdp.pp.se...


[edit on 9-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Irrelevant as that wasn't the reason we went there. Saddam was a total a-hole - no one is debating that Muaddib. There are a lot bigger a holes in the world that could cause a MUCH larger problem to the US and our interests. China and N. Korea come to mind off the top of my head. You think Saddam was bad? Read up on Kim. He makes Saddam look like a puppy dog. I dont give a damn about what SAddam did before we went in there. I know for a fact that wasn't the reason that was sold to us. The mere fact that we did business with Saddam in the 80's until it wasn't convenient to us any more makes me sick as we supported him and his lifestyle and his way of governing. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Edited by request of moderator.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by rich1974]

Originally posted by marg6043
Connected are you playing games with me?

No, but can I ask why you only read the links that support your anti-war agenda?

Let me clear this up for you....

"in such a degraded state they couldn't be used for what they are designed for."

Means they will not work as they are designed...but will work with simple modifications. Just like a cell phone was not designed for remote controlling Improvised Explosive Devices, but they did it anyway.

Did you miss this quote??

Asked just how dangerous the weapons are, Hoekstra said: "One or two of these shells, the materials inside of these, transferred outside of the country, can be very, very deadly."

www.breitbart.com...

THAT IS WHAT WE WANTED TO PREVENT! PREVENT THESE DEADLY MATERIALS FROM REACHING USA. GOT IT? VERY VERY DEADLY = WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION.


www.defenselink.mil...

"These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.

GET A CLUE, OPEN YOUR EYES!

Originally posted by Muaddib

You call the insurgents and terrorists "just people who didn't agree with deposing Saddam's regime?...

The same insurgents/terrorists that bombed the buildings where millions of iraqis went to vote....

The same insurgents/terrorists who even the mention of them among Iraqis have caused the death of 1,000 people from an stampede?....

the same insurgents/terrorists who use civilians as shields, and strap bombs to children and tell them to go where coalition forces are that they would be given candy?...

Or the same insurgents/terrorists that brainwash children and adolescents into strapping bombs to kill coalition forces?...

The same insurgents/terrorists that have killed, and keep killing more Iraqis than they have killed coalition forces?.....

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Muaddib]

So in your infinite wisdom, what are we to do? Stay there and keep killing "insurgents" until there aren't any more? You will kill everyone in the ME if you go that route. Or would you just prefer to carpet bomb the whole region and then take its resources?? What exactly are we supposed to do there? We cant install a democracy in the middle of people who prefer to be in a theocracy! It just doesn't work. The mindset of that society isn't prepared to accept that. Each group believes that they are in the right and therefore must be in control - you cannot bring democracy to a place like that. They have to reach that point as a people, not by force.

Originally posted by Connected

marg seriously you are pissing a lot of people off with your nonsense. You have no clue what you are talking about...

Right back at ya. You think you AREN'T pissing people off with YOUR nonsense? Dude, get a grip on reality.