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A Question to Masons

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posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 09:59 AM
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I apologize in advance since this is not exactly a conspiricy, but I was wondering if I could get some of the Masons on ATS to shed a little light on something.

I have recently been doing research on Freemasonry and I am a bit confused in regards to Prince Hall Masonry. What is the difference between PHA and PHO? Also, I read that they don't recognize each other as Masonic Lodges. What is the basis for that?

While I'm at it and since I have your attention (hopefully), could you also to clarify the difference between 3 letter Masons and 4 letter Masons (F&AM and AF&AM)? Any insight would be appriciated!




posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 04:31 PM
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F&AM and AF&AM. Ancient Free & Accepted Masons and Free & Accepted Mason are the same. There is a little history behind it but these days it is just a matter of preference. There is a grand lodge for every state, and each does things a little differently.
As for Prince Hall, there is a thread about this you can read here. There are a few southern Civil War states that are a little in the past. These states are the only ones where black masons and white masons aren't getting along, although I believe this will eventually change.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 04:36 PM
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Well, I can't comment on the Prince Hall part.

As far as the AF&AM and F&AM difference... modern Masonry began in London in 1717 when four lodges joined together and called themselves the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons. In the process, they claimed jurisdiction over all Masons. Some other lodges got on board with this new idea, but others did not.

The ones who didn't said that the new idea of a grand lodge was "modern", and against the "ancient" principles of the order. To spite em, they formed their OWN organization, calling themselves the "Antient" Freemasons.

Lodges that were formed under the Antient's grand lodge took the initials AF&AM for "Ancient Free and Accepted Masons". Lodges that formed under the "Moderns" took the initials F&AM, for "Free and Accepted Masons".

Eventually (within the next 20 years)The modern era of Masonry began in London England in 1717 when four old lodges joined together and called themselves Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, and claimed jurisdiction over all Masons. Some other lodges (in London and elsewhere in England) joined in with this new grand lodge plan, but others did not.

The ones who didn't said that the new idea of a grand lodge was a "modern" invention, and against the "ancient" principles of Masonry. But eventually, they formed their own rival grand lodge, called themselves "Ancient" or "Antient" Freemasons, and called their rivals the "Moderns". If you can't beat em, join em.

Lodges that were formed under the Ancient's grand lodge took the initials AF&AM for "Ancient Free and Accepted Masons". Lodges that formed under the "Moderns" took the initials F&AM, for "Free and Accepted Masons" (without the Ancient).

Soon after, Masonry came from jolly old England to the USA. Some of the new grand lodges got their charters (permission to form and work) from the Modern grand lodge, and some from the Antient. Eventually, each state in the US had its own grand lodge, descended either directly or indirectly from those two feuding grand lodges.

Then, the two grand lodges kissed and made up, becoming the United Grand Lodge of England -- so now all English lodges take the initials UGLE.

In the US, there was a reconciliation between the ancients and moderns after the Revolutionary War... but anti-England sentiment was high. The idea of taking the newfangled UGLE initials was abhorrent... so, they snubbed their noses at England by keeping their roots, and the initials that they were born with.

So, what does that all amount to? Just history. There is really no difference between the 'types'.



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 09:35 AM
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Red Pill and Hobbes,

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up. Appreciate the info. Ill make sure to read the thread on Prince Hall as well. Thanks again!



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by Hobbes

Lodges that were formed under the Ancient's grand lodge took the initials AF&AM for "Ancient Free and Accepted Masons". Lodges that formed under the "Moderns" took the initials F&AM, for "Free and Accepted Masons" (without the Ancient).


Just a quick comment:

The Antient Grand Lodges actually called themselves A.Y.M. : Antient York Masons. It was not until the reconciliation that "A.F.&A.M." and "A.F.M." popped up.

One of the major issues was the Royal Arch degree. The Antients conferred the degree in the Lodge, which the Moderns did not. Upon the reconciliation, it was agreed by all parties to still recognize the degree, but to transfer it from the Lodge into the Chapter.



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 03:45 PM
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Sounds very 'Dodgy' indeed.



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