Zapruder frames show driver killed JFK

Well, I agree. What really looks interesting to me is that in that frame
in the middle of the divider between the drivers and the passengers
you can see an object and what looks like a small flash of light.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by u4itornot]

[edit on 21-3-2007 by u4itornot]

Originally posted by jblaze
After studying frames at about z284 to z330 or so, you can clearly see the driver turn back towards JFK and shoot him at close range with what appears to be a silver .45 cal.

Keep your eye on the driver.

Originally posted by jblaze

I'm sure that anyone of intellect can understand that the integrity of the Zapruder film is at best suspect. There is no way that there would be any kind of proof positive reflected in the aforementioned video, otherwise it wouldn't have been made public.

The reason I tend to lean toward what I believe has got nothing to do with individual frames, it is because of the timing. Look at it in context and the timing of the frames I mentioned.

I am well aware of techniques in video manipulation, that is why the timeline of the events is important.

Maybe I shouldn't of said "clearly showed" etc., that was strictly my opinion
and I am open to any theory that makes sense, and what I've espoused makes sense to me. Anyone that has posted any disagreeing statements I would love to hear what your theory is.

Above quotes have had some content removed to help keep this post short. IMO removed text does not affect context of quotes, please correct me if I am wrong

I believe this is what is known as a flip flop. Or perhaps your stance has changed due to comments made in this thread. In either case, I believe that you are now asking us to judge this film more for what it DOESN'T show (as that is proof of manipulation) than for what it does show. I cannot buy into this idea. Please excuse my sarcasm and hyperbole, but I do not see Castro standing alongside the parade route shooting Kennedy in the head, so he must have done it. Clearly that was cut out. This thinking is ridiculous.

Existing evidence is enough to support the conspiracy theory. Too many wounds for the number of bullets said to have been fired. Offline trajectories from the depository window all shots were said to have been fired from. Etc. Etc.

To go so far as to say that the fact the driver looks back at the President after hearing shots fired indicates that he was a shooter is what causes terms like "crackpot conspiracy theory" to exist. Let's not even get into the fact that your entire thread was predicated on the "clearly visible" gun.

Here's a plausible theory: At least three shooters were in place along the parade route. They all fired at and hit or missed the President and others in his vehicle. The driver, hearing shots fired and being responsible for the safety of his passengers looked back to see who (if anyone) was hit and injured then looked forward again to continue driving.

Witnesses said the limo slowed measurably as the shots rang out. A film of the scene allegedly shows that the car's brake lights came on. And after the fatal head shot, the driver turns his head to the front again and the limo suddenly picks up speed. Obviously the driver was in on it, though not as a shooter.

Originally posted by billybob
you know what i see on the frames mentioned in the first post?
someone standing on the lawn filming the car as it passes.
wonder where that film went?

No offense or anything, but are you familiar with Mary Moorman? That's who you are referring to, and it's a Polaroid still camera that she's using. The picture she took at that moment is quite famous as the source for the Badge Man theories, the Black Dog Man theories, etc. Google for Mary Moorman polaroid and you'll find it.

Also, am I the only one who looks at z318 and is more shocked by the brains and blood in JFK's lap than by the possibility of the driver having a gun?

I am new here, I am an "armchair researcher" on the JFK events, mostly I like just reading all the different possibilities. I wanted to say there are some really good posts in this thread.

Sorry but its a completely insane theory, not only would he have been seen, Connelly would have not only noticed, the report from the shot wouldve blown his eardrums. just my opinion.

What an absolutly amazing debate. I have never once given thought to the possibility that it might be the driver of the limo who was also a "shooter".
I'm going to lean on some of my experience from my past.
Being a former soldier and at times employed as a driver there are basic skills you are taught when you come under contact from enemy fire.
The "holy trinity" of theses points is 1. Never slowdown 2. Never stop and 3. Keep driving until out of the danger zone or you’re in a secure area.
With all of that said the fact that driver of the limo went to a near stop during the shooting is something that amazes me. More to that point the natural human reaction to such things is to do one of two steps 1. Foot to the floor on the gas or 2. slam on the brake. Neither of these two situations occurred. The limo driver went to a crawl, a slow and deliberate crawl. Keep in mind that if the driver was involved with the shooting there is a lot adrenalin going no matter what. Either yes he's going to put a round in JFK's head or he's assisting the other "shooters". Regardless there would be flood of adrenalin going on. This then leads me to the question as to how the driver was able to maintain a slow deceleration of the vehicle.
Was this so that "shooters" can get a proper site picture of their target?
Was this so the driver could force the secret service and Dallas police escort back which would give him time to handle, aim and fire his pistol?
I've looked at the photos the OP provided. I now have questions of my own.
Again due to my background I'm familiar with hand guns, understand ballistics and trajectory.
Holding a pistol in my left hand, driving a car with my right, turning to look at JFK, getting a line of site with a pistol, pulling the trigger, then returning my attention to driving would take the skills of IMO a master marksman.
Things to consider about the line of site with the pistol and JFK: The drivers right arm. It would get in the way and there would be powder burns on either the inside or outside of the jacket. The muzzle flash would be visible to all in the vehicle if the pistol did not have a suppressor on it.
I disagree with the posters who say Jackie and the rest of the pers in the car would be temp deaf. A pistol is loud but it won't make you deaf at that range. Fire it off right beside your ear with no hearing protection, yes indeed you will be deaf either temp or have a ruptured ear drum.

When the phrase "back and to the left" comes to mind again IMO if the limo driver did shoot the impact of the round would cause the head to move back if it was a skull shot. If it was a soft tissue wound like in the throat then the initial reaction is fall back, then slump forward in self protection. So skull shot entry in the front forces the head back, second shot forces the head to the left.
I have a hard time believing that these shots were that perfectly timed that the driver could slow the vehicle down enough, maintain control, shoot and have another "shooter" fire to force the head to the left, to which the driver then looks back to check out his work then speeds off.

IMO again; there was a weapon set up in the driver seat of the limo which was activated by the driver turning around the first time. That weapon fired a round into JFK to ensure he died.
No I don't have proof of this.
One again I state this is in my opinion.

Arcticnull

Originally posted by enshadowed

Originally posted by billybob
you know what i see on the frames mentioned in the first post?
someone standing on the lawn filming the car as it passes.
wonder where that film went?

No offense or anything, but are you familiar with Mary Moorman?

MARY MOORMAN!!!!!
oooo, that offends me.

"The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the Americans freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizen of his plight." -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy speaking at Columbia University, 10 days before his assassination

googlers google "joan mellon" for more offense.

oops. i made a typo. it's mellen, not mellon.

check this article out. really well researched....farewell to justice

THE DRIVER DID NOT SHOOT JFK

It's an illusion of the film, due too its poor quality. What you think is the gun, is actually a flash of sunlight being reflected off the top of the front passengers head (to the right of the driver).

The "hand" on the "gun" is actually the guys forehead..

The assassin/s were on the infamous grassy knoll.

this is more plausable than the 'magic bullet' theory IMO.

Does anyone else think the same as me, that the driver shooting JFK is an illusion?.. i haven't heard anyone say this, but many say that the driver did shoot him.

As has been stated namy times, Bill Greer (the driver of the limo) did not shoot JFK. You need only to watch a high quality version of the Zapruder film to see this. Much of the witness testimony supports more than one shooter in Dealey Plaza that day, but NO testimony suggests the driver did it.

www.youtube.com...

it is clear to me the whole film is a fake

look at this image

shadows of the onlookers

now why is such a horrible and falsified piece of evidence being used to come to a conclusion.

every frame is warped and jigged up. there will never be hard evidence gained from this film.

your government had him killed, no matter how it happened,
and your government will nver admit to it.

so bend over.

if anything his missus blew his head off. take a look at this frame

the red mist


[edit on 24-4-2007 by spearhead]

[edit on 24-4-2007 by spearhead]

Originally posted by spearhead
if anything his missus blew his head off. take a look at this frame

the red mist.

Are you quite serious?

quite.

i thought that the man in front of the president was hit in the back. by frame 315 JFK is very dead and the guy in front is still completely oblivious.

why have none of these men in the vehicle been identified?

[edit on 24-4-2007 by spearhead]

Originally posted by spearhead
quite.

i thought that the man in front of the president was hit in the back. by frame 315 JFK is very dead and the guy in front is still completely oblivious.

why have none of these men in the vehicle been identified?

[edit on 24-4-2007 by spearhead]

The man in front of JFK is Governer John Connally - and by 313 he had been pulled down by the woman next to him: his wife Nellie. He was not at all oblivious - if you watch the Z film at the link I posted above you will see that he is certainly aware of something terrible happening. When he is actually struck is a matter of intense debate to this day among researchers.

As far as identifying all of the people in that vehicle, all 6 people are well known. In the back, Jackie and JFK, in the middle are Nellie and John Connally, and in the front are William Greer (the driver) and Secret Service agent Roy Kellerman.

so you will conclude he wasn't shot by anyone in the car.
what about the motcyclist that is in every frame nearly. any idea who he is?
oh and here's another more than clearly falsified image. look at the front of the vehicle.
car

[edit on 24-4-2007 by spearhead]

in frame 312 the man in front of JFK is clearly sitting, looking in the direction of the camera. clearly.

www.assassinationresearch.com...

and in 313, 314, 315. he still appears to be sitting. not being pulled down by his wife.

Spearhead,

While I have trouble believing that LHO was the assasin, I do not believe that he was fired up by anyone in the motorcade. There is enough witness testimony from the crowd that day that it can be ruled out. Their attention was fixed on the car - certainly if someone in the car fired at him, they would have reported it. It really is that simple. I suppose the response could be that they were coerced into not reporting it, but enough have testified to things that are contrary to what the Warren Report concludes to that I believe this scenario is highly unlikely.

The motorcycle officer I believe you are referring to (there were several) is Bobby Hargis - best known for his testimony of massive amounts of blood and brain matter splattering him and his motorcycle from the fatal headshot.

As far as Governor Connally is concerned, if you will watch the version of the Z film I have posted above, you will see that he is indeed aware of the events taking place, though he likely hasnt made any sense of it, he knows they are being shot at - even his own testimony AFTER the shooting suppports this. His testimony also contradicts the Warren Commission, so no claims of involvement can be made wih regards to Connally, IMO. He claimed until his dying day that he was hit by a shot SEPERATE from the one that wounded JFK before the headshot. At 313, he is still somewhat upright, his wife is tugging at him, begging him to get down. He was wounded at this point, according to his testimony. Directly after the headshot, Nellie succeeds in pulling him all the way down to lie on his side.

As someone who has spent years as a fairly serious armchair JFK researcher, I firmly believe that nobody shot him from the motorcade. There simply is no evidence. There is ample evidence that he was NOT killed as the Warren Report claimed he was, but a shooter from inside the motorcade simply doesnt hold up to scrutiny.

As far as Z-film alteration, I wont get into that debate. I personally believe it to be fully genuine. Many studies have been done on this, some claim it to be faked, some hold it to be genuine. But even without the Z-film, there is too much evidence that he was killed by more than one person. Perhaps LHO was involved, and perhaps not. I believe he is just what he said he was - a patsy.

But the shot, in my very strong opinion, did not come from the motorcade.



[edit on 4/24/2007 by ChiliDog]

[edit on 4/24/2007 by ChiliDog]