Guantanamo Detainee Calls Home

A while back they showed a news video of this kid and how his family reacted. His older brother also was in the Taliban, he joined for a few years and came home. I believe that was this childs function at the time...to join and return after being in his military of choice. The war began and he was caught after he returned to the Canada I believe. They harassed his family for months and eventually took the child when he came home to visit his family. The U.S. said they had evidence to hold him but never said what.

This video was shown a couple years ago but I had no idea the U.S. government had such rain in Canadian Territory.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere
SO he HIS a prisoner of war then? Make up your mind!

I never said he wasn't. He is a prisoner of war. Someone else here may have called him an Enemy Combatant. But as far as I'm concerned he is now, and has been since being caught, a POW.

What the government calls him ... that's another story.

Sorry, my bad.. I mixed up some posts... retracted!

still, my point still stands.. how can he expect a fair trail from a country that doesn't even recognise is legal status as a POW?



[edit on 9-3-2007 by nowthenlookhere]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Different situation. That 'broke out' quickly and unexpectedly. Also, the people were fleeing .. not caught on a battlefield with an enemy all the while holding and using weapons against coalition forces. Afghanistan has been going on for many years and it was widely known to be forthcoming when it did happen.

Have you ever seen pictures of Afghani villages? Lebanon is a modern country, but even up in the mountainous areas there is no TV , Electricity is spotty and maybe even no telephones. Afghanistan is even worse especially in the mountain regions as well as the villages dotted all over the place in the middle of nowhere.He may not even known a war was about to break out or that they were under attack. Its very possible that he was stuck there, held there, shanghai'd or he could very well have done what he's accused of. Its not like he could hop on a bus, or call a cab and leave when he wanted to if he was in one of those remote villages. Believe me, I've been in the same situation.

I too have seen this family interviewed on Canadian television. Or at least the surviving female members, swathed from head to toe in chadors, so the faces angrily spewing the idea that all infidels are enemies of God and need to be destroyed remain hidden. Hidden from view while they advocate the destruction of my country. The hysterical ant-westernism matched only by the shrill demand for free medical treatment and housing.

Originally posted by Here Now
A while back they showed a news video of this kid and how his family reacted. His older brother also was in the Taliban, he joined for a few years and came home. I believe that was this childs function at the time...to join and return after being in his military of choice.

Was it compulsory conscription during the Talibani reign for all citizens do you know? Then its possible if he was a dual citizen that when he went there to visit they snagged him and made him serve in the army there.Its also possible he went to serve his country too. It happens to dual citizen US/Israelis. Compulsory conscription.

Compulsory in the sense that what child has a choice but to adopt their parents values. Other than that, they're self-righteously fighting satan and the West is the lusty little imp himself.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

If he is 20 years old now and was arrested in 2002 that means he was 15 years old when they nabbed him. Thats attrocious. Holding a 15 year old kid is nuts. If he actually did fight it is doubtful that he had any choice in the matter.

Agreed. And he's at Guantanamo bay when he probably was just fighting for his country... which all soldiers do. This is just stupid, now it's a crime to be a soldier and defend your country?

It sux.

IMO the Taliaban are just that Taliban. It means "student" but because of the countries political system they are a perfectly valid militia. So why they have to be taken to 'black' sites is beyond me. I don't understand.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Selmer2]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Holding a 15 year old kid is nuts.

That 15 year old 'kid' was old enough to get on an airplane, find the Taliban, fight for the Taliban way of life, fight against an international coalition, and attempt (or even succeed in) KILLING those international troops.

There is nothing 'nuts' about it. He's a soldier for the enemy .. by his choice.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
he probably was just fighting for his country

He's CANADIAN and he was in Afghanistan fighting with the Taliban.
It's not HIS country.

back

Well said. I wish I would have beat you to it though. I was wondering how long it would take for me to run accross someone with intelligence in this thread. I was about to vomit reading the posts of people feeling sorry for this idiot. He made a choice, killed a good man, now send in the reaper!

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
He may not even known a war was about to break out or that they were under attack. Its very possible that he was stuck there, held there, shanghai'd or he could very well have done what he's accused of. Its not like he could hop on a bus, or call a cab and leave when he wanted to if he was in one of those remote villages. Believe me, I've been in the same situation.

He managed to find his way to the remote village, didn't he? He could just as easily found his way out.

I cannot believe all the excuses being made for this person being there. He killed one of our soldiers. He deserves to be at Gitmo. The conditions there are much better than Afghanistan anyway. He does not deserve the rights of a POW, since he was not conforming to the ROE's, i.e., wearing a recognizable uniform. He certainly does not deserve the protections of our Constitution, which he was trying to destroy by killing our soldier.

if he did indeed kill an american , then he's where he needs to be . in prison . i see replys about how his family must feel and emotional rollercosters , what about the killed american's family ?

He's CANADIAN and he was in Afghanistan fighting with the Taliban.
It's not HIS country.

Yeah sorry about that.

There is nothing 'nuts' about it. He's a soldier for the enemy .. by his choice.

So what. He's freaking 15 years old. There's different laws when you're 15.

That 15 year old 'kid' was old enough to get on an airplane, find the Taliban, fight for the Taliban way of life, fight against an international coalition, and attempt (or even succeed in) KILLING those international troops.

Yeah? Show me proof of that. Show me that he really killed a US troop. Show me proof that he went there by his own means, volontary to fight for the Talibans.

And don't say that he's at Guantanamo and that is proof because 90% of those in Guantanamo never commited a crime.

A little soda and perspective please....

Guantanamo Bay. A camp that exists solely on the merit that the US holds it on foreign territory and can apply overwhelming force against Cuba if it so wishes to keep it there - and lets be clear on this, Cuba does not want it there at all.

Indefinite detention periods.

Secret trials with no recourse to the full US legal system, where the detainees cannot defend themselves and, in most cases cannot see the evidence presented against them.

A status of "enemy combatant" which nicely sidesteps the Geneva convention.

I thought the Bush administration was supposed to have balls? Whats the "war president" afraid of? If all these people are guilty, then prove it, properly, in a full mandated US Court of law, not hide behind a legal loophole and a black hole camp, acting like the dictators that US service personnel are supposed to be "protecting our freedoms" from.

Is that really "Leading by Example"?

Nope.

There is nothing 'nuts' about it. He's a soldier for the enemy .. by his choice.

So what. He's freaking 15 years old. There's different laws when you're 15.

What do you mean ... 'so what'??? Over there that makes him a man. He was man enough to pick up a gun, enter the battlefield, and blow away coalition troop (s) .... That means he's old enough to suffer the consequences of his actions. And that's what GITMO is .. consequences of HIS ACTIONS.

Also - JSO is right .. I was wrong ... He's not a POW. I have to amend my statement. No uniform = not POW. My bad.



[edit on 3/9/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Also - JSO is right .. I was wrong ... He's not a POW. I have to amend my statement. No uniform = not POW. My bad.
[edit on 3/9/2007 by FlyersFan]

Thats right, he was not in a uniform and is part of a terrorist organization. IF these people want POW status, stop hiding among civilians, wear uniforms, and formerly declare yourselves.

As to the poster who asked why we are fighting the taliban and why they are shipped off to black sites. Is your memory really that short? you cannot remember 6 years back? or are you just a kid?

Anyone here read Esquire magazine? Happens to be one of my all-time favorite periodicals. Superb writing. Aaaaanyway-

The march issue of Esquire has an article called "The American Way of Justice" by Lt. Cmdr. Charles Swift, USN.

It's time for some perspective, please. It's time to close Guantanamo Bay. Yes , I am the military officer who sued my commander in chief and the secretary of defense on behalf of a Guananamo Bay detainee named Salim Hamdan. >snip<

... a friend I had gone through plebe summer with came up to me. After the academy, he had gone into the Marine Corps and done superbly. He made colonel, and everyone expects that he will be a general. When he took me aside, I was a little nervous. I believed in what I was doing, but I could understand why he might not. But what he said was all the inspiration I have ever needed when things got rough. He told me simply, "The rule of law is what I fight for. Men die for this. Don't stop." >snip<

Let's not forget what our heroes are dying for.

Very good article from the point of view of some people to whom we should be listening.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Also - JSO is right .. I was wrong ... He's not a POW. I have to amend my statement. No uniform = not POW. My bad.
[edit on 3/9/2007 by FlyersFan]

Thats right, he was not in a uniform and is part of a terrorist organization. IF these people want POW status, stop hiding among civilians, wear uniforms, and formerly declare yourselves.

As to the poster who asked why we are fighting the taliban and why they are shipped off to black sites. Is your memory really that short? you cannot remember 6 years back? or are you just a kid?

WRONG!!! Like it or not, the Taliban were the legitimate government of Afghanistan at the time we invaded, we were attacking, he waas fighting for the government. he deserves the same rights accorded to POW's.

Any force that opposes the government of the U.S. could be classified as a terrorist group the way this administration is doing things, and denied their rights as POW's. It sets a terrible precedent for our troops captured in combat. Don't you guys get it? International treaties and accords work because all sides agree to them, any one renegs and it opens up the door for your opponents to do so and it can get ugly.

If so that it doesn't matter. He's not a citizen right??

I seemed to have read somewhere on this thread that The United States has a base in Cuba because we force it on them. Well according to a treaty that the Cuban Government signed back when the United States fought the Spanish and liberated Cuba from Spanish rule; Cuba forfeits that land that the Base is plotted on and it is American territory. It's written in ink people, not because we force it on them, but because it's there indefinitely until we say otherwise.

Anyways, the child went there in 2002 correct? Which means that he was in Canada in the time when 9/11 happened. The Taliban lost its Government status effectively about 1 to 2 months after the United States and the coalition invaded. The Taliban was toppled and we were no longer fighting a national military, but were fighting insurgents/terrorists/militia.

So let me recap, he went there when he knew that the war had started. He went there when the Taliban was no longer in power(keep in mind that there was heavy resistence from a northern alliance that opposed Taliban, but later weakened when their leader was killed in 2000). Picked up a weapon and began fighting for a no longer formal military. Had no uniform. Yeah, I'm surprised he's even getting a trial.

Consider this, I'm positive there are plenty of people from over there who will never see the inside of a court room.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Also - JSO is right .. I was wrong ... He's not a POW. I have to amend my statement. No uniform = not POW. My bad.
[edit on 3/9/2007 by FlyersFan]

Thats right, he was not in a uniform and is part of a terrorist organization. IF these people want POW status, stop hiding among civilians, wear uniforms, and formerly declare yourselves.

As to the poster who asked why we are fighting the taliban and why they are shipped off to black sites. Is your memory really that short? you cannot remember 6 years back? or are you just a kid?

Grover responded well, but just to clarify the "Taliban" are not an internetwork of terrorist cells i.e. "Al Qaeda قاعدة ". They are an authority as but also considered a civilian militia network. This is the case because of the religious government system that was in place I presume.

Originally posted by Selmer2

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Also - JSO is right .. I was wrong ... He's not a POW. I have to amend my statement. No uniform = not POW. My bad.
[edit on 3/9/2007 by FlyersFan]

Thats right, he was not in a uniform and is part of a terrorist organization. IF these people want POW status, stop hiding among civilians, wear uniforms, and formerly declare yourselves.

As to the poster who asked why we are fighting the taliban and why they are shipped off to black sites. Is your memory really that short? you cannot remember 6 years back? or are you just a kid?

Grover responded well, but just to clarify the "Taliban" are not an internetwork of terrorist cells i.e. "Al Qaeda قاعدة ". They are an authority as but also considered a civilian militia network. This is the case because of the religious government system that was in place I presume.

Imo there is no justification for 'hiding' these people and not allowing them to go through a fair process. By fair I don't mean legal.