Church restates its stand on Freemasonry

Hey Mahree, you're okay by me.

Yeah, many of the founding fathers were Masons, that's why freedom of religion is such an important part of what makes this country so great.

We don't really care what you believe, as long as you just believe.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Roark:

It is over past feuds.. the Church outlawed Masons because they despise anything different then them selves..

While this is true of many things, the actual reason that the church despises masons is because of their connection with the Bavarian Illuminati which was founded with one of its primary goals being to dismantle the church and organized religion as a whole.

Personally I think religion is the biggest lie ever perpetrated and the church always lives in fear of people waking up to the truth. But thats just my opinion.

The other thing is there isnt one lodge that I have gone past that isn't worn down and scabby looking. They are generally all run down basic halls you wouldnt notice.

It's not so much done on purpose.
It's really because the lodges are maintained by us and funded by us. We receive no government funding, or tax breaks. Churches have the luxury of not having to pay taxes, but we don't (don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, just stating a point of fact.)

Also, considering that many lodges are over a hundred or so years old, it's difficult to maintain, between obtaining materials (which can be very expensive) and the actual repairing of the lodges (heh, how ironic that we come from stonemasons, but only some of us are actually capable of repairing and maintaining...does anyone else see the humor in that?), so yeah, many of the lodges look run down.

But, much like the philosophy we promote, it's not what's outside, it's what's inside that counts.

Originally posted by wu kung

The other thing is there isnt one lodge that I have gone past that isn't worn down and scabby looking. They are generally all run down basic halls you wouldnt notice.

It's not so much done on purpose.
It's really because the lodges are maintained by us and funded by us. We receive no government funding, or tax breaks. Churches have the luxury of not having to pay taxes, but we don't (don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, just stating a point of fact.)

Also, considering that many lodges are over a hundred or so years old, it's difficult to maintain, between obtaining materials (which can be very expensive) and the actual repairing of the lodges (heh, how ironic that we come from stonemasons, but only some of us are actually capable of repairing and maintaining...does anyone else see the humor in that?), so yeah, many of the lodges look run down.

But, much like the philosophy we promote, it's not what's outside, it's what's inside that counts.

The true beauty lies WITHIN the lodge anyway...

To be honest, why would a catholic even want to be a Mason? The two are completely incompatible. From a spiritual perspective.

From what I gather from Freemasonry, you guys share certain Protestant beliefs, such as the belief that man can commune and directly connect with God, and that no other man such as a priest or bishop or pope can do it for you.

The Catholic Church is heavily centralized and regulated, and the state of one's soul is determined by a distant entity: the Vatican, where Masonic Lodges are more independantly run.

One doesn't need to be just Catholic to be Christian. There are other denominations out there too.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
To be honest, why would a catholic even want to be a Mason? The two are completely incompatible. From a spiritual perspective.

Actually (I've said this on ATS before) I was a Mason for MANY years and converted to Catholicism. I did so by being VERY open with my Parish Priest and my Bishop about my Masonic membership. The two questions I was asked were: "Why are you a Mason?" (easy stuff) and "Does Masonry interfere with your personal faith in Jesus Christ?" (again, easy stuff...because Masonry cannot and will not interfere with ANYONE'S personal faith...be it what it may) So, from a spiritual perspective I feel that I have taken many things that I've learned in my Fraternity (Freemasonry) and am applying it to my Catholic Faith.

From what I gather from Freemasonry, you guys share certain Protestant beliefs, such as the belief that man can commune and directly connect with God, and that no other man such as a priest or bishop or pope can do it for you.

In reality if you study what the Catholic Church *really* teaches and not what many *think* that it teaches, exactly what you say is true. Jesus, the Christ is the ONLY intercessor. Certainly we ask the Priests and Bishops as well as the Saints to pray for us....but most of us do the same with close friends. At least I do. When I have troubles I ask my sweet Mother, my dear wife, my best friend and my children to pray for me. Nothing unusual about that, really.

The Catholic Church is heavily centralized and regulated, and the state of one's soul is determined by a distant entity: the Vatican,

Well...the Catholic Church allows "reason" and a thinking individual is actually the one responsible for the state of his or her own soul.

where Masonic Lodges are more independantly run.

Well...actually Masonic Lodges are "centralized" by Grand Jurisdiction, but honestly you're talking apples and oranges here as the Catholic Church is a religion and Freemasonry is a Fraternity. Two VASTLY different things.

One doesn't need to be just Catholic to be Christian. There are other denominations out there too.

Absolutely. That's not being denied. Oh, I know there are some old-line crusty old Roman Catholics out there who think the RCC is the ONLY church, but most thinking members do not feel this way. The Church of Christ was once well-known for this type of thinking. I have to chuckle that so many of them believed themselves to be the ONLY TRUE CHURCH and they were founded in the . . . uhm . . . 1800's? WOW! A WHOLE bunch 'a people went to Hell before they came along with the truth, huh?

A good example of the fact that there are, indeed, other denominations is this: Yesterday I attended the Palm Sunday Mass and during the general intercessions, one of the prayers was for (and I quote) "our Jewish Brothers and Sisters as Passover begins" The Priest went on to say "May all Christians learn from their example to love and venerate the one true and living God"

Pretty ecumenical, huh?



[edit on 2-4-2007 by Appak]

Thank you Appak. I suppose you are right in certain respects. There are a number of Catholics who are steering away from Vatican-Only views, so perhaps eventually freemasonry might eventually become more acceptable there.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
From what I gather from Freemasonry, you guys share certain Protestant beliefs, such as the belief that man can commune and directly connect with God, and that no other man such as a priest or bishop or pope can do it for you.

Oh no, definately not!

Freemasonry has no opinion about and makes no judgement on a man's relationship with God. It is entirely outside the remit of the Craft to even think about making such a call. There's a Sikh in my lodge back in England who would be most amused to be described as sharing Protestant beliefs!!

The restriction on Catholics becoming freemasons comes from Rome, not from freemasonry. And (to be honest), no-one has satisfactorily explained to me why Rome has a problem with regular freemasonry (you know, the type that doesn't get involved with politics or religion), other than that they can't differentiate between regular and irregular freemasonry.

Another good point. It doesnt matter what your religon is in freemasonry, as long as you believe in some form of higher power. Obviously, not a religon. But true, it seems Rome does not see it that way, which is sad.

Why don't they hold the same opinion on Boy Scouts then?

Originally posted by NephraTari
While this is true of many things, the actual reason that the church despises masons is because of their connection with the Bavarian Illuminati which was founded with one of its primary goals being to dismantle the church and organized religion as a whole.

This is not the case at all. For example, the Church was opposed to Masonry long before the Illuminati was born.

Nor was it the goal of the Illuminati to dismantle religion. Indeed, the Illuminati's second highest ranking official was a Lutheran clergyman.

Personally I think religion is the biggest lie ever perpetrated and the church always lives in fear of people waking up to the truth. But thats just my opinion.

I would agree, for the most part. Ironically, most of the Illuminati would not.

I think it's all a waste of time, I would hope to see both sectors on a path to self-destruction. Though it seems that is the case already.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Why don't they hold the same opinion on Boy Scouts then?

Don't ask me. None of it makes any sense. Perhaps if someone had perpetrated a fraud against boy scouts proving they secretly worshipped Satan, the apparently easily fooled Catholic Church might ban membership of the scouts too.

Well once again the Catholic Church is showing its true colours.
You add the banning of Freemasons along with the sexual abuse scandals, the Popes stance on the use of Condoms and other historical events to the list.

The Catholic Church certainly has a bad track record is longer then my arm.

Yeah, I always found it quite hypocritical that the (and I've said this on other threads) church, the very same church responsible for nothing less than the Spanish Inquisition among other things, goes on about forgiveness and tolerance, and in the same breath condemns anything not fitting into their framework of how the world should be.

I'm going to take a chance here, and actually quote myself from earlier in the thread:

Originally posted by wu kung
Okay, okay...
So the Catholic church doesn't like Masons.
Fine.
Big freakin' deal.
We're cool with that.

But the Catholic churce doesn't like gays, Jews, Buddhists, Protestants, Lutherans, vegetarians, ice cream, puppies or sunshine either.
And y'know what?
I don't freakin' care about that either.

The Catholic church has voiced negative opinions on lots of things over the years, and the Masons have voiced the ideal of charity, tolerance and brotherly love (not to mention the millions given to charity every day and the Shriner's hospitals where children are treated free of charge.)

And don't forget, that if it weren't for a few men who were Masons, planning strategy in a Masonic lodge, you just might never have even had the freedom to hate us, or even choose your own religion in the first place.

I cana't help but wonder if the stance of the church is due to the freedom of relion we aspouse?

The timing of masonry going public in England was only after the Roman Church was finaly replaced by the Anglican, in an irreverable mannor.

Not to claim credit for that action by Henery the 8th and his decendents.

I'm sure, that the catholic church is very much against our idea of freedom of religion (my opinion, nothing more) because it gives free thinking men the choice of not taking their side.

The whole dynamic of freedom of religion, has taken on the appearance of a war of attrition, and the catholic church is just trying to play the numbers game.
"We have more members, so, by default, we must be right!"
(again, my opinion)