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Church restates its stand on Freemasonry

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posted on Mar, 8 2007 @ 10:45 PM
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It's a pleasant thought that I never waited for the Vatican to release that nonsense that they were pushing on the internet years ago regarding a disclosure on alien visitations. Any of you happen to recall reading that garbage? If you did not read it even better since as usual nothing much came from it, as expected. The rumor was designed to show that the Vatican was hiding something. How ironica when it was they themselves who initiated spreading the rumor! Just like the little "RAT-SLINGER" fiasco involving the islamic threats (to rally support) they do this all the time. The homosexual Rat-slinger (who cannot hide his 24 y/o bf) even called G. Bush the Satan in order to Rally support. Anyone with half a brain can see that Bush is too dumb to be Satan.

You might also ask the locals in Italy what they think about the Catholic Church today and why so many of them do not attend mass. Loss of Confession was great loss of communication for Satanists like Peter Hans Kolvenbach, rather also known as Mr. Klovenhoof.

And they are great at theatrics.... do you fella's enjoy watching movies?

Dearth VAdar = Dark Vatican
Luke "Skywalker" = "Walks on Water"
JE DI = Jesus Disciple

and my favorite one of all......

EWOKS = Aiwass(hi cug)

Gee, at least George Lucas made some money off telling you what you should already know. Obviously in the higher degrees KOM, KOC, K.SJ.J etc there are both Freemasons, Rabbis and Monseniors.


Sorry....pls do continue.




posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
I will stop going to Church,


If you choose a fraternal organization, that the Church has condemned, over receiving the Body and Blood of Christ .. that's your choice.

There are plenty of organizations that do good work, that the church not only approves of but encourages memberships to. However, you chose to go to the one that is not allowed instead of all the others. Perhaps you get a kick out of going and saying 'oooooh, I'm Catholic and I'm here. I'm such a baaaaaad boy, ha ha ha.' Who knows..... but there are plenty of others that ARE approved and enouraged, and that a Catholic could join and still receive Christ in the Eucharist.

Oh well, eh?


I will not let my kids touch foot in a Catholic Church as well,


Christ's words - 'do not lead the little ones astray'. :shk: Your choice of course ...


it will die accordingly

Maybe, maybe not. Christ lamented and asked if there would be any faith left when He returned. Well .. when people choose fraternal organizations over His church, the numbers of faithful will indeed be small.


I take it personally.


That's your problem.

At least you finally picked one. You will no longer be receiving Holy Communion while in a state of excommuncation (which is a mortal sin). I give you credit for finally getting off the fence and doing something about it.


Originally posted by Roark
I find the Church's unforgiving nature a little... rough...


It takes the church a very long time to work through the layers of the system. But don't forget ... they might know things and have reasons why they continue this rule, that we don't know about. Conspiracies! That's what this site is all about!



Originally posted by Rockpuck
Masons however have no problems with Catholics in general, except with people like FlyersFan.


Oh I'm so hurt. NOT!
Again .. I don't care.


Catholics in America (Clergy) are much more humane then those in Rome and do not "punish" Masons.


They are not Cathlolic. They are not following the rules of the church, nor the Canon Law. They are protestants through and through.


is not being allowed to take bread on Sundays,


It's not 'bread'. It's the Eucharist. The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. You don't even understand this basic Catholic Truth. No wonder you choose a fraternity over receiving Christ. :shk:


Just people like FF who are old school don't like us


You really should stop telling LIES. It's very unbecoming of an alleged faux-presidential candidate. Then again .. telling lies is very typical of a politician.

I already said numerous times... I don't hate masons. I don't care one way or the other about them. The Church says you can't be a Mason and a Catholic. I am telling this fact and now you attack the messenger. How immature of you. Grow up Rockpuck and stop telling lies.
You have chosen your fraternal organization over the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist. Go and be happy. No one is stopping you.

edited ONCE for spelling


[edit on 3/9/2007 by FlyersFan]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
If you choose a fraternal organization, that the Church has condemned, over receiving the Body and Blood of Christ .. that's your choice.


I suppose it comes down to this: when someone asks 'In whom do you place your trust?', what do you answer?

God? Or the Church?



Perhaps you get a kick out of going and saying 'oooooh, I'm Catholic and I'm here. I'm such a baaaaaad boy, ha ha ha.'


Or... it could be him saying I know I am faithful to Christ, and that does not conflict with my membership. The Vatican is wrong.



Christ's words - 'do not lead the little ones astray'. :shk: Your choice of course ...


So, you interpret that to mean "have your kids live by the word of the Vatican"? So, if the Vatican came out tomorrow, proclaiming that we should go commit genocide... that'd be the way to go?



Maybe, maybe not. Christ lamented and asked if there would be any faith left when He returned. Well .. when people choose fraternal organizations over His church, the numbers of faithful will indeed be small.


This is why I became disillusioned with the Church... just because I don't agree with the laws put forth by the men running the Church, doesn't mean that I have forsaken my faith.



At least you finally picked one. You will no longer be receiving Holy Communion while in a state of excommuncation (which is a mortal sin). I give you credit for finally getting off the fence and doing something about it.


Doesn't sound like he's on the fence, at all. I'll bet he continues partaking of the sacrament, knowing in his heart that he is faithful servant of his Lord.



They are not Cathlolic. They are not following the rules of the church, nor the Canon Law. They are protestants through and through.


For the love of all good things... The Church does not make you Catholic! Your faith does.



You don't even understand this basic Catholic Truth. No wonder you choose a fraternity over receiving Christ. :shk:


A) It's a Catholic Tenet, not a Truth.

B) You're just being insulting. I'm sure a practicing Catholic... whether you think he is one, or not... understands that basic symbolism.

C) You obviously don't understand the conversation, as he's not said he's giving either up.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 10:01 AM
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Masons even believe that Christ, dying on Calvary, was the "greatest among the apostles of humanity, braving Roman despotism and the fanaticism and bigotry of the priesthood." When one reaches the 30th degree in the masonic hierarchy, called the Kadosh, the person crushes with his foot the papal tiara and the royal crown, and swears to free mankind "from the bondage of despotism and the thraldom of spiritual tyranny."


Ok

Here is what I want to know. What is wrong with wanting to do away with the spiritual ignorance that the masses finds itself in? Whether or not the fault is solely on the Catholics is a moot point to me. I don't really care who or what the cause is, all I care about is the fact that it exists.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:10 PM
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Well, that's the crux of why the Church doesn't like us, to begin with...

Or so it would seem, to this one, at least...



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Hobbes
I know I am faithful to Christ, and that does not conflict with my membership. The Vatican is wrong.

That's not what being a Catholic is about. His being a Mason is in direct conflict with the church. He knows it. He has to pick one or the other. He has chosen the fraternal organization. The end. He can now go off and be a good protestant and a happy mason .. but he can't be a Catholic. Period.


I'll bet he continues partaking of the sacrament, knowing in his heart that he is faithful servant of his Lord.

If he does continue to receive Holy Communion while being a Mason, he will again be in direct conflict with the teachings of the church. He will also be committing a mortal sin. This does NOT make him a faithful servant of the Lord. It just makes him wrong.


The Church does not make you Catholic! Your faith does.

No. Faith AND following the rules of the Church make you Catholic. If someone doesn't like it .. they can leave.


It's a Catholic Tenet, not a Truth.

It's divine and holy, and it's absolute Truth.


understands that basic symbolism.

The Eucharist is not a symbol. It's the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. If a Catholic doesn't believe that, then they need to pray and educate themselves ... or get out of the Church.


You obviously don't understand the conversation, as he's not said he's giving either up.


You obviously didn't bother to read the entire thread. He said he wouldn't ever step foot in a Catholic Church again and he wouldn't let his Children either.



Mason or Catholic. Pick one. You can't be both. The end.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:27 PM
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Flyers, exactly how much do you know about the Catholic church? You do realize that they have killed and labeled everyone who didn't fall in line with their doctrines as "heretics" don't you? Nothing "Holy" about that at all. By the way, no,I'm not biased because my father was Roman Catholic and I went toa Catholic church for a while. It's a beautiful religion, but you seem to be a bit naive about the history of the "Holy" Vatican. There is nothing "Holy" about its deeds.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Flyers, exactly how much do you know about the Catholic church?


I'm a Third Order Carmelite.


There is nothing "Holy" about its deeds.


I didn't say there was. The history doesn't matter for this discussion. The FACT remains that the rules on the books say that no one is allowed to be a mason and still be in communion with the church. Period. End of story.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:31 PM
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[edit on 9-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 12:34 PM
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I will say this, as far as I know, it is a violation to be a Mason and Catholic. My dad never quite understood why the Catholics were so against Masonry, but he mentioned it to me several times because I had an Uncle that was/is a Mason. As far as I know, technically, if you are Catholic, you're not supposed to be in Masonry.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 02:36 PM
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*sighs*

FlyersFan your talking like a freaking Catholic Nazi you know that right? The Lord will be proud.


The Church is not Gods law. It is not Gods Church either. If I break the Churches law, I am not breaking a law with God. I believe the Ten Commandments are the only Laws God has given us.
The Pope is not God.
You serve an institution. You do not serve God as you work strongly against your fellow man.. quite sad really.. you and Sweft will get along quite well though, he considers Masons evil as well..

And don't give me that crap "pshh I don't care" >> no .. you do. If all White people decided Blacks couldn't ride in the front of the bus again, and you made sure all blacks sat in the back simply because it was the law... you would be a bigot right along with the rest.
Apparently you don't care though, and would rather think your self superior because you follow your Pope making you much better then those.. whats the word you throw around.. ah .. those protestants.. dirty heritics.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
That's not what being a Catholic is about. His being a Mason is in direct conflict with the church. He knows it.


No, YOU 'know' that. He 'knows' that he is just fine.



He has to pick one or the other. He has chosen the fraternal organization. The end. He can now go off and be a good protestant and a happy mason .. but he can't be a Catholic. Period.


Welcome to this big, bright, beautiful world... where he doesn't HAVE to live by your judgments or opinions. Your statements of 'this is the case. Period.' are pretty meaningless. Period.



If he does continue to receive Holy Communion while being a Mason, he will again be in direct conflict with the teachings of the church. He will also be committing a mortal sin.


Yeah, that was the 11th commandment, right? Don't irritate the Church... left off for brevity, I imagine.



This does NOT make him a faithful servant of the Lord.


No, but using his own good judgment DOES.



You obviously didn't bother to read the entire thread. He said he wouldn't ever step foot in a Catholic Church again and he wouldn't let his Children either.


I read every word, actually. What he SAID was 'If X happened than I'll do Y'.



Mason or Catholic. Pick one. You can't be both. The end.


You aren't an authority on Catholicism, as far as I'm concerned. It's not your place to make such statements.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 04:09 PM
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I didn't say there was. The history doesn't matter for this discussion. The FACT remains that the rules on the books say that no one is allowed to be a mason and still be in communion with the church. Period. End of story.


My God dear fellow, you've been hoodwinked! They would certainly sacrifice you like they did Kenned. Never forget that the beast of Babylon you support has never excommunicated Hitler or Stalin either.

No more greater damage was done to the true and Christianized form of Freemasonry that caused by the blood-soaked hands of the Satanic Jesuits.

If the Jesuits are such good "Christians" let's see them do some good? Why haven't they opposed the war in Iraq for example?

The list goes on and on...



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
FlyersFan your talking like a freaking Catholic Nazi ...

blah blah blah.


If I break the Churches law, I am not breaking a law with God.

If you call yourself a Catholic and yet don't follow the Catholic rules, that makes you a hypocrite, and NOT Catholic.


I believe the Ten Commandments are the only Laws God has given us.

Then you are not Catholic. Bu-bye. Enjoy the protestant church of your choice and be happy.


You .... You .... ...you .... you

Amazing. Still attacking the messenger.


don't give me that crap "pshh I don't care" >> no .. you do.

No .. I REALLY don't. :shk:


If all White people ....

Off topic babbling


you ...would rather think your self superior

Again - Grow up.

The laws of the church are that you can't be a Mason and a Catholic too. You are spending an awful lot of time complaining about this and attacking the messenger.

- you hate the Catholic church of old.
- you hate the Catholic church of now.
- you hate the pope.
- you don't believe in any church laws except the 10 commandments.
- you call the Eucharist 'only bread'
- you know the church doesn't allow you to be a mason, but you do it anyways. Therefore you do not believe in the papacy or the primacy of the church.

You are not Catholic. Period. Why are you even bothering to blabber on and on? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Mason or Catholic. You picked Mason. You are protestant through and through. So go be a protestant Mason and be happy. Your continued personal attacks are childish.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by sweftl337
My God dear fellow,

I'm a girl.


If the Jesuits are such good "Christians"


This discussion has nothing to do with Jesuits, or 'good christians', or the list that goes on and on. I'm sure I'd agree with you on many items that you could point to and say 'bad christians'.

It has to do with pretending to belong to an organization when in fact the person pretending to belong follows none of the rules. It has to do with claiming to belong to a church, but not following the rules of that church and having no intent to follow them.

The ONLY issue here is that the Catholic Church does not allow it's members to be Masons. Period. If someone wishes to be a Mason, then they need to leave the church and go be a protestant (which they are already if they are not believing in the laws of the church).

That is the ONLY issue. Not 'catholic nazism' .. not 'my alleged arrogance' ... not the Jesuits.... not 'good christians' ... not my alleged hate of masons (that was pathetic!) ... not anything except following the rules of the organization that someone claims to belong to.

It's very simple. Pick one. Mason or Catholic. To claim to be a Catholic and yet flaunt forbidden masonry makes that person nothing less than a hypocrite.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Hobbes
He 'knows' that he is just fine.

No it's not 'just fine'. You can't be both a mason and a catholic. No matter what he thinks of the masons. The Catholic church says you have to pick one or the other. Period.


he doesn't HAVE to live by your judgments or opinions.

They aren't my judgements or opinions. They are the judgements and opinions of the Catholic church.


Your statements of 'this is the case. Period.' are pretty meaningless. Period.

No. My statements are fact. Period.


but using his own good judgment DOES.

If he wishes to use his own judgement and become a mason, so be it. He just can't be a Catholic and be a Mason.

Oh .. and that's a very protestant thing to do. Cafeteria Catholicism = protestantism.


You aren't an authority on Catholicism, as far as I'm concerned. It's not your place to make such statements.


I'm a better authority than you are since I know what I'm talking about in this subject. I am repeating word for word what the Catholic church says. Mason or Catholic. Pick one. You can't be both. And YES, on this discussion board it is definately my place to make such a statement. Deal with it.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
you and Sweft will get along quite well though, he considers Masons evil as well..



What the hell is wrong with you? I have told you at least three times that I do not think masons are evil. Are you incapable of listening? Get it through your thick head.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:00 PM
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The ONLY issue here is that the Catholic Church does not allow it's members to be Masons. Period. If someone wishes to be a Mason, then they need to leave the church and go be a protestant (which they are already if they are not believing in the laws of the church).


I agree with you that for the masses this may be the case. However, true "Roman Catholism" ceased to exist after the time of I. Loyola and since the 1800's it has been further morphed with the higher degrees within Freemaosnry, Zionism the OTO and other Orders. To deny that there are those in higher places who are both Catholics and Masons, is also like denying that the creation of the State of Israel came about with the support of the Jesuits within the Church.

"Just do what I say, don't do what I do". Cardnial Willaim Levada, another Satanist of the Church! These people hardly practice what they preach so why take this stance by the Church seriously?

They appease the masses and it is nothing less than a giant stage production. For whether it's "cooked in the books" that a Mason cannot join overlooks the deeper truths. That is the point.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by sweftl337
true "Roman Catholism" ceased to exist after the time of I. Loyola and since the 1800's it has been further morphed with the higher degrees within Freemaosnry, ....


Now THAT is a great conspiracy. Wanna' talk about the Mass of St. Pius V and how he said NEVER NEVER, under penalty of hellfire, change the mass! And then Vatican II ... poof ... the mass is completely changed. The words are NOT the same. The prevatican II mass is completely different even though Pope Paul VI lied and said it was the same. The Novus Ordo is NOT the same as the prevatican II mass.

Oh .. that would be a great thread discussion sweft!!

Many say that the Novus Ordo is not the 'true Roman Catholic' mass. I am currently reading up on that and have not made a final thought on it. I definately am open to any and all information on Cardinal ottaviani etc etc



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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Many say that the Novus Ordo is not the 'true Roman Catholic' mass. I am currently reading up on that and have not made a final thought on it. I definately am open to any and all information on Cardinal ottaviani etc etc


I must clarify at this point that some the greatest hero's and those who oppose tyranny have been Catholics, not even including all the Saints. Also much of true Christianity came from within the Church - for example Thomas Aquinas!

Have you ever read anything written by Father Malakai Martin? As a true Catholic, he felt that we needed to remove the Jesuit presence that had a strangle hold over the Church. Father Malakai Martin was in my opinion, a Saint because even through simply listening to him, he radiated a sort of open-mindedness and kindness that one would normally expect in a Christian.

Although I do not agree with all that he said, one thing apparent that stuck out further than the rest was his drive in keeping true Catholism safe from the forces of Satan. He refers to exactly what you mentioned regarding the Mass being altered and this very much upset him.

I am sorry to report that he was found gruesomely murdered.



[edit on 9-3-2007 by sweftl337]



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