Past Lives

Do you believe in Past Lives?

Whats the Logic Behind this phenom?

Deep

Reincarnation is the logic.

I'm moving that way in my belief. But isn't further enlightenment the goal of this life, to look after the next ones in the journey?

Well What I dont understand of Reincarnation, is simple.

If you believe this, then you must believe that you were once another entity in your past life, yet you have no memory.

So whose to say it exists?

Our karmic actions in this life determine our incarnation in our next.

Good karmic actions equate to A better incarnation in the next life,

A bad incarnation equate to maybe, a dog, rock.

Sounds like a control system.

Deep

In my opinion, reincarnation does not exist. Not just a few people would remember their past lives, EVERYBODY would. What would be the point of not remembering a past life? If the goal of reincarnation is to learn, its a #ty way to go about learning by forgetting things you've already experienced. If this is the case, it seems to me that reincarnation is more akin to a never ending repeating hell. You are basically doomed to live over and over again without knowing why and you would repeat mistakes over and over again, never getting further in any kind of "spiritual development". Total nonsense. Nobody would be a willing participant in such an insane game. I certainly would have no part in it.

If indeed reincarnation does exist, then I must be a new spirit on my first time out. I do not remember a single thing prior to my life now and I am damn certain I would remember living before. Why would I not?

way to go about learning by forgetting things you've already experienced.

Exactly.

Deep

Thats an interesting question I have been pondering myself. Anton Lavey said it was mere fantasy in -The Satanic Bible. It would be cool to think you could come back and even pick different traits in yourself that you didn't like in past lives. It seems like a pretty far stretch though.

Why does reincarnation have to be all about the self?
Why would the person undergoing it be expected to learn or remember experiences from it?

Maybe reincarnation would be like getting your battery recharged to carry on a specific job for a higher purpose that you have no control over?

I'm not too sure that I believe in reincarnation but why is it logical that if you do return, you are doing so for your own purpose?

Heelstone. You're assuming that the soul has a memory. But isn't the memory tied to your brain which is a part of your physical being?

[Edited on 24-12-2003 by Leveller]

Originally posted by Leveller
Heelstone. You're assuming that the soul has a memory. But isn't the memory tied to your brain which is a part of your physical being?

If some people remembering their past lives is true, then the soul has memory to it, right? How else could they come to have memories of their past lives? Thats a huge assumption though. Much as it is you making the assumption that a soul would have no memory because its not physical. And IMO, the jury on evidence for souls is very weak to begin with, let alone any reincarnation that may happens.

Regarding your involuntary reincarnation remarks, as I said, that makes reincarnation a form of hell. Utterly and totally pointless. There would have to be a reason for it if it was true, and I see none. Having some higher purpose or reason for being reincarnated is lost in the process of losing your memory on past lives, is it not? Thats my take on it.

[Edited on 24-12-2003 by heelstone]

Originally posted by heelstone
Regarding your involuntary reincarnation remarks, as I said, that makes reincarnation a form of hell. Utterly and totally pointless. There would have to be a reason for it if it was true, and I see none. Having some higher purpose or reason for being reincarnated is lost in the process of losing your memory on past lives, is it not? Thats my take on it.

I agree that the jury is out on the memory theory. But the very fact that we are talking about something that is so theoretical means that it can't be discarded.

But what about if your reincarnation is not involuntary? You can voluntarily serve a higher purpose.
Maybe the soul goes to a holding station to recharge and it is then up to the individual whether to move on from there or stay.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

way to go about learning by forgetting things you've already experienced.

Exactly.

Deep

Zero, that line of heelstone's post jumped out at me also.

Heelstone, you may have stumbled upon a very important lesson or clue without realizing it. It could be all in how you look at it.

by heelstone: If the goal of reincarnation is to learn, its a #ty way to go about learning by forgetting things you've already experienced. If this is the case, it seems to me that reincarnation is more akin to a never ending repeating hell. You are basically doomed to live over and over again without knowing why and you would repeat mistakes over and over again, never getting further in any kind of "spiritual development".

In Tao and Buddhist philosophy, Enlightenment or Being One with Tao(The Way) is said to be when One "Experiences Being" in the truest sense of the term. This is of course Spiritual Freedom from things like reincarnation. Along with that is the idea that Leaning or gathering knowledge, memories, etc. is NOT the answer to finding "The Way" to Enlightenment of Being.

The "Knowledge of life is not the Experience of life", similar to the saying "The Map is Not the Territory". The Way is to just Be Experiencing Being or Beingness. Reincarnation then isn't about any goal toward Learning from past Experience, but more like the result which comes from trying to Lean how to Experience instead of simply Experiencing. It can be difficult to grasp the concept behind it but think about it like this:
"Knowing The Way to Buddha(or Your True Self) isn't about Leaning to find Him(Self), The Way is Forgetting that You Lost Him(self)."
Hopefully that makes it more clear or at least makes sense. Here are some words from the Masters of Old with this same idea.

'I am not, I will not be.
I have not, I will not have.
This frightens all children,
And kills fear in the wise.'
~Nagarjuna

"Enlightenment for a wave in the ocean is the moment the wave realises that it is water." ~From Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh

If it can not really be explained in words, why bother writing about it?
According to the Buddha, as long as we do not realise emptiness directly - especially of our idea of how our "I" exists - we do not properly understand how the world functions and we will continue to create causes for our own misery.

~Dogen Zenji instructs:
"You are right about not relying on intelligence, talent, quick-wittedness, or sagacity in learning the Way. Still, it is wrong to encourage a person to become blind, deaf, or ignorant. Since studying the Way does not require having wide knowledge or talented abilities, you should not show disdain for anyone because of their inferior capacity. True practice of the Way must be easy. Nevertheless, even in the monasteries of great Sung China, there are only one or two people out of several hundred or thousands of practitioners who realize the dharma and attain the Way in the assembly of one teacher. . . . I believe this: it depends only on whether one's aspiration is firmly determined or not. A person who arouses true aspiration and studies as hard as his capacity allows will not fail to attain the Way." "To arouse such an aspiration, think deeply in your heart of the impermanence of the world. It is not a matter of meditating using some provisional method of contemplation. It is not a matter of facbricating in our heads that which does not really exist. Impermanence is truly the reality right in front of our eyes."

If you believe this, then you must believe that you were once another entity in your past life, yet you have no memory.

Ahh...but not everyone has no memory of them... Odd thing is, once you open the door, you may be surprised at what you learn about yourself.

I'm reminded of a Ripley's Believe it or Not segment. This woman, married, with grown children, etc. kept having dreams of a home in England (she was in the US, and American). She'd dream of the house, the kids, down to the most minute detail. One day, she eventually tracked down the site she dreamt, and then saw that it had burned down. She then contacted the kids she dreamt about. Together, they relieved memories of another lifetime she had (the children were now older than she was of course, as she was mother to them in another life). She would know where a bed was in the house, where a certain picture hung, etc., even though the house was just a foundation now. The "kids" fully accepted her as the reincarnation of their mother, as there is simply no other way she would have known all of those details, including personal details of their childhoods.

Sometimes, children are even born with birthmarks, that are clearly tattoos from previous lives, that were very important to them... Some with discernable names, dates, even unit numbers, etc.

All in all, there's some pretty conclusive evidence for it.

Keep this in mind too.... There are far more people in the world that believe in reincarnation, than those who don't....

I fully believe in the concept of reincarnation. When I was little I used to have very vivid dreams of walking through the streets in Egypt.

I also believe that ur sould goes through past lives until it learns all that it needs to, then it goes to a place like Nirvana. I also believe in different stages in the after life. The lower stage where you reinact things you did during your last life, learning the lessons from it. Then unto the Summerlands where it would be sort of like the Christian heaven, except not. Then onto thte place that is like Nirvana. But, this is just my philosophy on life, not saying it is the ture thing that happens.

Reincarnation is a very real and important part of reaching Creator.

To become enlightened and rise in vibration, you must have knowledge. It is ALL about lessons and learning.

Everything is in a cycle. Reincarnation happens in twos. Meaning the first time around you are a new soul having your first experience in the flesh. In Spirit you have guides and teachers and Creator to help you, If you learn how to hear. (more on this later)

You live that life, experiencing and learning and gaining knowledge and experience. You pass.

Now you are in what is known as the contimplation density (5th). Here you will receive any help you need to deal with any issues you have carried with you from you past life. Once these issues are dealt with you may decide to do one of many different things.

Remember, in Spirit, there is NO time.

You may choose to help others who are just passing into the contimplation density, you may choose to help others in either Spirit or 3rd density (physical) life. Or you may choose to re-enter a physical life. Every soul must experience atleast to lives in the 3rd (physical) density.

When you re-enter in to physical reality, you will now have your higher self to help you as well as your teachers and guides and always Creator.

You do not remember your past life (most don't, some do) nor Spirit. This is called the veil and it is in place by Creators desire to help you learn more lessons and experience more.

Here is why.

Say in the first life you were a farmer. and you worked all the time and barely made a living. You had a wife and family but you were not very happy. You are only going to learn the lessons this type of life will allow you to learn based on the choices you make during this lifetime.

For simplicities sake, say the second time around you are, again, a farmer. But this time you have a beautiful farm and are very well off. However, you were married but your wife died. Point is, the circumstances are different and the lessons you learn and the experience you have will be new. You will be able to make choices based on your reality to learn more new things.

Most people only need to experience this physical reality one cycle. Some need to do it twice and a very few need to do it more than that. Some Spirit may choose to return by choice ( boy not me...)

To rise in vibration and to go to the next level ( and collect $200 ) you must learn lessons, discover Creator and Spirit.

There are 7 densities with Creator at the Center (envision the black hole at the center of the Universe). Within each density there are 7 levels. Think of the 7 music notes (sound), think of the 7 colors (light), and think of the 7 geometric shapes (Platonic solids). Everything is in a grouping of seven and everything is a cycle.

I mentioned earlier about hearing Spirit and Creator. EVERYONE has the ability to communicate with spirit. You only have to try and learn. This skill is in all of us but our culture and society has helped most of us forget.

In religion we are told not to listen to the spirit voices or go with our intution. That is evil voices and satan waiting for your soul. Rubbish!

We have been taught that you need a go between to reach Creator. (Jesus) You are taught that you are unworthy as you are to reach Creator, that you have sinned and are unclean simply by being born. Rubbish!

Creator is in each of us and we are NOT born in sin. Sin does not exist nor does satan. This is a brainwash to keep you in fear and to cause you to be afraid to seek Spirit and Creator.

You do/did not need Jesus Christ to die for your sins because you have none. Think about that. Why would Creator put the burden of sin on you? All creator wants you to do is live, be happy ( or try to be), learn lessons and discover HIM ( Creator).

Whether you believe in Spirit or not, you all hear Spirit almost every day. That little nag in the back of your head, that gut feeling, that really great inspirational idea you just thought of out of the blue. All Spirit.

You just need to quiet your mind and your body to start. Sit or lie quietly, calm your mind and your body and listen........

If you acknowledge Spirit and ask them , they will come to you. They Love you.

There is so much more I could write but this is a very condensed version. I hope this helps some of you.

Blessings to all,
Patty

You're talking about the light aren't you? Oh yes, is anyone here able to help me find out what my past life(s) were? Thanks.

[Edited on 25-12-2003 by TheCatalyst]

What about reincarnation exists and when you're a "spirit" you KNOW that you'll forget everything for the time being, but you do it anyway because it has tons of physical pleasure and that's just so inticing. When you're just a pile of essence.. some intangible energy you may have issues trying to please yourself.. physicality provides that pleasure... oh and there's BLISS in ignorance. If you don't know something horrible you're blissfully/ignorantly happy.. maybe we all know the "truth" but chose to come here because the truth sucks. Here on Earth we can all "pretend" we'll go to heaven and therefore be happy etc etc. Yes sure people suffer and there are random consequences that you cannot control, but we TAKE that risk anyway in the hopes that we'll be the lucky physical little being and get as much pleasure as we can. Of course, those who changed their minds when they came to Earth and changed their orientation to Truth/Learning/Service to Others... pleasure was no longer so enticing. They will move on to their realm after death, while those who prefer experiencing physical ignorance/pleasure will keep doing so.. because they want to. Everything is a choice.. nothing is forced upon anyone and NO ONE exercises judgement on anyone, that would mean system of control and who likes that Of course our religions are so blissful for the "believers" because blissful ignorance always beats truth for those people of service-to-self orientation. That's one opinion anyway.

What? Souls would willing choose to go to this reality and give up memories of it? I would suspect that as involutary as life is for an individual, that if there is a soul, it is equally involuntarily obligated. I don't see how there could be a choice for anything that is born.

Well... if it's involuntary that means there's some kind of a system that forces people to do things against their will... but where's the Free Will? And did we get to vote in that system or something? Aw crap it's American Democracy in the afterlife too? Blah! How about the after-after life then! I'm skipping the next level

No one can force your spirit to do anything, nor can anyone force YOU here on Earth to do anything. The only way to do that is to blackmail you (when you're alive that means threaten to kill... and you cherish life enough to not voluntarily go to a slaughterhouse). So you comply to stay alive. What can you threaten a spirit with? What leverege can you possibly have over a spirit, I mean there's nothing you can take away from him and it is unrestricted in travel in space/time. Also... being born is voluntary... it's something you wanted to experience, else you wouldn't be here, as far as I know. Things don't always go as you plan, but you take that risk in the hopes that maybe they'll turn out good. But either way, all experiences can be good, since good is subjective. Some people LOVE hurting themselves, is the word masochist? Either way, there's a fan for just about EVERYTHING. For an ethereal existance it's timeless/spaceless and knowledge (deception-free) is available at a whim, but I'll stop right there. Just a thought! Can't you think of any reason you'd want to experience life, given everything you can possibly experience when alive as a human who remembers nothing of his prior existence? You regain the memories when you die, so it's not like it's permanent. It's same reason we play videogames, even though we know it's not real. We just DO! For fun, to experience that other reality. Your soul never forgot everything, but you as a human are only the "videogame character", you never knew anything to begin with!

[Edited on 25-12-2003 by lilblam]

To tell me that I would put myself through amnesia of multiple lives just to come back and do it again is absolutely the most ludicrious thought I could propose. Unless I've tricked myself, I would have never allowed it. Why would my mind as it exists now be diametrically opposed to reincarnation if its real and I'm a part of it? To fool myself would be um... foolish. I wouldn't deny it if it was real either. It just seems to me that there is zero reason to be reincarnated if indeed it was a voluntary act. If its real and souls exist, then I must be a first-timer who recognizes it would never return (at least willingly).

[Edited on 25-12-2003 by heelstone]

I've always kind of thought of it like this....

Upon death, you (or your "spirit"/"soul", for lack of a term that isn't connected with religion) go to a pocket dimension, born of your own mind's imagination. (the bigger and more complex your imagination, the bigger and more complex the dimension). This is all on a perception begets reality idea. So, for those who think they will go to heaven, they see just what they expect, as they are creating this dimension. Likewise, those in certain states of minc, likewise create their own dimensions (that are not very heaven-like, but more like hells). Suicides, seem to be the biggest trap, for one of the aspects to the dimension seems to be imprisonment of the soul...and it appears to be of the soul's own actions, that it is sealed tighter from other dimensions. (this is why contact with those who've committed suicide is difficult or impossible).

Eventually, being a god in your own little universe gets a little boring, and you look for new input, new experiences to build on. If you control every aspect to your dreams, wouldn't your dreams get boring? It's the unexpected that we take pleasure in, and it's adapting to the unexpected, when we learn. Thus, reincarnation. In order to experience this new input, it is necessary to cast aside pre-conceived notions from other lives. For example, a "male" entitiy, may want to see how it's like for a female. It wouldn't exactly do to have those latent male attitudes hanging around. Though, sometimes, the attitudes are so strong that they aren't simply cast aside for a bit (hence lesbianism, and of course, homosexuality in men for the same reason). So yes, it is a voluntary thing to "forget" temporarily (temporary to the soul that is).

Eventually, when you've learned all you think there is to learn, you join/meld with the gestalt of all thought. You could call this "God", or a godforce, etc. So, as you can see, I'm not atheist, I just believe that there is no one sentient creator. I believe that "creation" simply always was and will be, and that it works in cycles, like the universe itself....constantly creating/destroying itself, just like life does.

[Edited on 26-12-2003 by Gazrok]