Define God, What is it to you?

Originally posted by wellwhatnow

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
... people who think they have a personal relationship with God are simply freakin' kidding them selves.

Does it hurt you if I "kid" myself?

It certainly can. If you for instance claim that God has spoken to you and he commanded you to kill me, yeah, I'd certainly see a problem with that. Or, oohh lets say, a certain world leader got it into his head that God told him to invade a certain country, that could have profound effects on me and world as a whole.

So yes, people whom dellude themselves to think they have a special personal relationship with God can be very dangerous.

And not to mention people who think that way really just piss me off. If I go on a killing spree, hunting these idiots down, I'd say that also has severe negative effects on my self and others.

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
It certainly can. If you for instance claim that God has spoken to you...

I understand that, but I am talking about me as an individual. I don't believe that GOD can actually speak, so it couldn't possibly speak to me.

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
And not to mention people who think that way really just piss me off. If I go on a killing spree, hunting these idiots down...

I have read many of your posts, and for the most part I truly value what you say. As I have said, I don't speak for all believers, like-wise I don't expect you to represent all atheists. So, as one individual to another, aren't you just wasting a lot of energy being pissed off by what others might think? If you kill people aren't you responsible for your own actions? You can't really blame other people's thoughts.

I guess my point is that not all believers, deists, theist, whatever - are the same. In the interest of denying ignorance, I always attempt to remind others of that point and to keep it in mind for myself.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
It certainly can. If you for instance claim that God has spoken to you...

I understand that, but I am talking about me as an individual. I don't believe that GOD can actually speak, so it couldn't possibly speak to me.

Perhaps you can explain to me or give me an example of how your personal relationship to God works? What does it actually mean? I'm lost.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
And not to mention people who think that way really just piss me off. If I go on a killing spree, hunting these idiots down...

I have read many of your posts, and for the most part I truly value what you say. As I have said, I don't speak for all believers, like-wise I don't expect you to represent all atheists. So, as one individual to another, aren't you just wasting a lot of energy being pissed off by what others might think? If you kill people aren't you responsible for your own actions? You can't really blame other people's thoughts.

I guess my point is that not all believers, deists, theist, whatever - are the same. In the interest of denying ignorance, I always attempt to remind others of that point and to keep it in mind for myself.

I certainly can't blame anyone else for my action, you are correct.

Well, I'm torn on the issue, mainly because I do not have a solid world view that I can use as a frame of reference. I don't have any purpose in life, I don't feel that living a life of love is truely superior to one of hate, I have no sense of absolutes.

I would agree that being constatly angry of what other people think would be silly, if, and that's a big if, the thoughts of others did not in any way affect me. However, I'm a social being and I live among many induviduals whom thoughts and ideas affect me on a day to day basis. My thinking is that eventually someone whom embrace fantasy and does not adhere to logic and reason may be a future threat. In addition I'm also jealous of their dellusions.

It is completely irrational to me to make absolute claims about something that is unknowable or not known at this present time. For some reason this makes my blood boil in frustration.

If we cannot find some sort of common ground of logic and reason, as somone has pointed out to me in previous threads that there is no reason to assume that being logical (human perception of logic) is superior to being irrational and faith bound, then I don't see any future point in this existence other than serving my self and my own desires. In my view logic and reason must be universal, sort of like how math should work the same way here and anywhere else in the universe. If this is not the case then everything just seems pointless to me.

It is ironic because I'm a very laid back and easy going person in real life in general (I laugh and joke abnormally much), however when it comes to these philisophical questions I become very emotional. I don't understand the world and I get enraged when someone comes along and claims that they do, based on not reason and logic which may be shared with me, but their own made up ideas and fantasies that only serve their own dellusions! I want to have all the answers too, more than many! But I can't allow my self to just believe in something just because it gives me purpose. I can't, I just can't do it.

My frustration often turns into fear and my fear into anger and my anger into pure rage. At times, I love the feeling of rage, it's immensly powerfull, just like the feeling of love. I like them both.

Maybe you could make some sense of my ranting, however it is now late and I need to sleep. Good night.

I like queenannie's post very much. Or the idea that god is a reflection of universal consciousness. God is everything to me, water, earth, life. All of it is God and all of it is a mystery.
Frightened and alone, hiding under the blankets with a rosary, God is my personal saviour and friend.

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
"Relationship with God" is a bullcrap statement, you can't have a relationship with something you don't know for sure even exists. The fact is that people who think they have a personal relationship with God are simply freakin' kidding them selves.

If you would kindly note, it was not a statement but a question - didnt the ???'s give it away?.


G

Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
"Relationship with God" is a bullcrap statement, you can't have a relationship with something you don't know for sure even exists. The fact is that people who think they have a personal relationship with God are simply freakin' kidding them selves.

If you would kindly note, it was not a statement but a question - didnt the ???'s give it away?.


G

Well I'm not attacking you for posing the question, I'm attacking the concept of a personal relationship with God.

Originally posted by queenannie38
It is our 'higher selves' on the 'other side' (meaning simply the intangible).

What a great post! If there is something called God, I can agree with you about what it is. I read your post several times.

Religion is something that separates and contributes to our ongoing search for a God apart or outside of our essence.

Perfect! I think many conventional religions serve as a wall between people and "God". They (religions) are an attempt to explain with earthly words and thoughts that which cannot be fully understood by earthly minds. Conventional religion is just a story people tell themselves in an attempt to feel somewhat in control. Letting go of that, while scary, is pure freedom!

I hope that makes sense.

More than you know! *big hug*

Vlad, your post above (the one in response to mine) has got to be the most logical, honest, intelligent response I have personally rcvd in a long time. It impressed me.

As for this part:

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
Perhaps you can explain to me or give me an example of how your personal relationship to God works? What does it actually mean? I'm lost.

I am not sure that hearing about my relationship would help you at all. I don't expect my beliefs to work for anyone but me. I'll give it go just in case though.

GOD is the name I give to the collection of forces under which we are all connected: the laws of physics, gravity, the cycle of life and death, etc. I have a personal relationship with these forces because they are omnipresent and must be considered in everything that I do. The more I learn about them, the more personal the relationship becomes.

I have a physics text left over from college that states that there are more atoms in a single breath of air than there are breaths of air in the Earth's atmosphere. This means that the same atoms I breath, may have already been breathed by someone else. To actually share atoms with other people, to be breathing in what someone else has breathed out - well you can't get much more intimate than that.

Things like that make me feel a personal relationship with something bigger than myself.

That probably doesn't give you the answers as you would like to have them, but your impressive post deserved the best reply I could give - and there it is.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
Vlad, your post above (the one in response to mine) has got to be the most logical, honest, intelligent response I have personally rcvd in a long time. It impressed me.

I’m surprised, however I’d like to say thank you for your feedback.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
As for this part:

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
Perhaps you can explain to me or give me an example of how your personal relationship to God works? What does it actually mean? I'm lost.

I am not sure that hearing about my relationship would help you at all. I don't expect my beliefs to work for anyone but me. I'll give it go just in case though.

GOD is the name I give to the collection of forces under which we are all connected: the laws of physics, gravity, the cycle of life and death, etc. I have a personal relationship with these forces because they are omnipresent and must be considered in everything that I do. The more I learn about them, the more personal the relationship becomes.

I understand and what you’re saying sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You’re basically saying that God is the life which you experience? I’ve had the same thoughts and ideas my self; however I fail to see why you even need to label this as a personal relationship with God. It sounds to me like you simply have a personal relationship with your perception of existence itself and in my view this is a given, it’s like stating the obvious. How I experience life and perceive reality is all through my own senses and therefore this can be viewed as a personal relationship with life. This just appears redundant to me.

What I’m wondering is if you believe these collection of forces, which you label God, involves some form of sentience or if they just simply ‘are’?

In many ways we share the same views; however I’m not certain how these concepts are related to the traditional perception of God. In which I consider God to be a sentient being that is the first cause of everything. However, this very concept is a big problem for me philosophically, as it does not explain anything; it just adds another question to the puzzle.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
I have a physics text left over from college that states that there are more atoms in a single breath of air than there are breaths of air in the Earth's atmosphere. This means that the same atoms I breath, may have already been breathed by someone else. To actually share atoms with other people, to be breathing in what someone else has breathed out - well you can't get much more intimate than that.

Things like that make me feel a personal relationship with something bigger than myself.

That probably doesn't give you the answers as you would like to have them, but your impressive post deserved the best reply I could give - and there it is.

I too feel as if I’m a part of something bigger. I am after all living in this universe, I’m made up by atoms and energy just like you, I’m apart of this whole system we call our universe. However I feel rather insignificant in the great scheme of things.

The fact that the universe is vast and that life itself is awe inspiring in many ways does not make me feel special or thankful for that I’m apart of this reality. I’m indifferent, I just feel like a big question mark.

The only thing I have that is true is an unbelievably strong desire to learn, to understand and to know everything. I do not want unanswered questions. When I cannot find answers to my questions I become frustrated more than anything else. That appears to be my basic underlying nature.

I thank you for your reply; I understand your position better now. I hope you can clarify on a few of my questions, however.

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
It sounds to me like you simply have a personal relationship with your perception of existence itself and in my view this is a given...

You may be quite right about that. I look at it like a difference in perception. I could just experience life, or I could learn as much as possible and develop a deeper understanding of how it all works. This deeper understanding is what takes on a spiritual tone.

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
What I’m wondering is if you believe these collection of forces, which you label God, involves some form of sentience or if they just simply ‘are’?

No sentience in my book. My views on these things are always evolving, but right now, I say these forces just are. They exist and serve their purposes.

Originally posted by VladTheImpaler
I’m not certain how these concepts are related to the traditional perception of God.

No relation what so ever. I simply don't share in the traditional perception.

The more I learn about interconnectedness, the more I feel the need to promote "goodness" and be kind to others. I think it gets even more of a spiritual tone at that point - when it begins to influence your actions and decisions.

I keep learning and my beliefs keep evolving.

Thanks for clearing that up wellwhatnow

Our views are in fact very, very similar. I would also consider my view and understanding of the world to always be evolving, that is a great way to put it.

So in conclusion, your definition of a personal relationship with God does not have any negative effects on my self. However, I think you'd be best served (or maybe I'd be the one best served) by not using the term God as this can be misleading in this context.

Thanks for your reply, have a nice day.

Vlad

I didn't want to look like I was just taking over the thread by posting too much, but since no one else has posted here in couple of days - I guess I'll continue.

I understand Vlad's point concerning the word "God".
Actually I don't use the word God, I use GOD. I know it's a slight difference, and to be more accurate I should use G.O.D. I just get lazy and don't put in the periods.

G.O.D. for me is the Guiding, Organizing, Designing process present in the universe. I regard this process with great reverence, therefore I call it GOD.

God doesn't like it when he is used as an excuse for intolerance.

God doesn't like it when he is forced into politics.

God hates it when people kill in his name.

God doesn't like people fighting over their perceptions of him.

God doesn't like the pronoun "Him" because God is far beyond such things, yet God understands that we have no other pronoun for him. Although, God wouldn't mind being referred to as "Her" once in awhile.

God honestly wouldn't mind if the entire planet just dropped religion if it meant that we would all get along just a little bit more.

God likes Skee-ball.

God prefers to take this physical form

Originally posted by Sunsetspawn
God doesn't like it when he is used as an excuse for intolerance.

God doesn't like it when he is forced into politics.

God hates it when people kill in his name.

God doesn't like people fighting over their perceptions of him.

God doesn't like the pronoun "Him" because God is far beyond such things, yet God understands that we have no other pronoun for him. Although, God wouldn't mind being referred to as "Her" once in awhile.

God honestly wouldn't mind if the entire planet just dropped religion if it meant that we would all get along just a little bit more.

God likes Skee-ball.

God prefers to take this physical form

Source?