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What's with the anti-Catholic hate?

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posted on Mar, 8 2007 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
No.........You're not one of those people who believe that Peter was the first Pope are you?


Strictly speaking, Peter was the first Bishop of Rome. The Pope is the Bishop of Rome and the Successor to Peter.

The Pope is often called the "Vicar of Christ", but this is inaccurate. Peter was the Vicar of Christ, subsequent Popes (Bishops of Rome), starting with Linus, should be properly called "Vicar of Peter".

Because of Peter's status as the Vicar of Christ and first bishop of Rome, no subsequent pope has (yet) taken the name Peter II, although the Prophecies of St. Malachi indicate that the final pope (the next one after Benedict XVI) will take the name of Peter (Petrus Romanus - "Peter the Roman"), but that's another topic.

Rome has its special status because:

1) Its See was founded by Peter*
2) It was the site of the greatest city of political influence during the time of Christ
3) It is the site of the martyrdom of both Peter and Paul.

*(While not stated in the Bible, Peter did travel to Rome and was executed there. The Romans and their historians noted as much, as well as the oral traditions of the local Christian populace. During the persecution of Christians during the reign of Nero, Peter, the flawed, weak man who denied Christ three times (traditions further states that Peter wept over his denial every day of his life, and had creases near his eyes from the tears - how many Christians today have denied Him with our words or actions? How many of us weep over our own denials? I know I have..), left Rome out of frustration. While leaving Rome, Peter had a vision of Christ walking into Rome. Amazed, shocked, overjoyed and confused, he cried out, "Lord, where are you going?" (In Latin, "Quo Vadis, Domine?"), to which it is claimed Christ replied, "Peter....my people in Rome have need of thee! If you leave my people now, I shall return to earth to be crucified a second time." Not bearing the thought of denying Christ again, and knowing his friend and Lord and Savior would be crucified again, Peter listened and returned to Rome, preached, and was ultimately captured and crucified on the site of his first public sermon in Rome - on Vatican Hill. While many would dismiss this since its "not in the Bible", I nevertheless think its a beautiful story. Also bearing in mind that the Bible is not a history book when it comes to every detail of every travel of the apostles following the Ascension of Jesus.)

I suppose if Jesus were "alive" and with us in physical form today, one might argue that Washington, D.C. would be the "Rome" of the day, or, if He were present in the 1800's, London might be the "Rome" due to the status of those cities and their parent nation.




posted on Mar, 8 2007 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone

You're not one of those people who believe that Peter was the first Pope are you?

Yes, because that is what the tradition has always said.


You betchya - I am.

www.catholic.com...
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www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...



posted on Mar, 8 2007 @ 09:19 AM
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Constantine, having accepted Christianity, and decreeing it the official faith of the empire, needed a unified Christianity for its own sake, and the sake of the empire.



Constantine was the High Priest in the worship of the sun. He had the day of worship changed to SUNday in honor of Sol Invictus the unconquerable sun. His supposed conversion came on his death bed and his coherience was in question.

This of course breaks another of Gods commandments to keep the Sabbath holy.

Each man makes a choice. If you want to play games with God, knock yourself out. If you want to explain away the truth, it's your choice.



posted on Mar, 8 2007 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Constantine was the High Priest in the worship of the sun. He had the day of worship changed to SUNday in honor of Sol Invictus the unconquerable sun. His supposed conversion came on his death bed and his coherience was in question.

This of course breaks another of Gods commandments to keep the Sabbath holy.

Each man makes a choice. If you want to play games with God, knock yourself out. If you want to explain away the truth, it's your choice.


The person explaining away the truth (and inventing or perpetuating outright falsehoods and unverifiable facts) is you, my good Christian friend.

Constantine did not "change" the day of the Sabbath to Sunday (Sun-Day or "Sol-Day" indeed!). It was a practice already in use by Christians in memorial of the day of the Resurrection, and also to differentiate from the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) -- this was a not so subtle statement to the Jews that the Christian Sabbath was a fulfillment of the Jewish Sabbath.

Constantine was a secular ruler, a powerful one, mind you, but a secular one. He had the authority to call the council, but lacked the ecclesiastical authority. Riddle me this: If he had the authority to impose his will in that matter, why didn't he just issue an imperial decree? Why bother with calling a Church Council and incurring the expenses he had to bear?

Constantine was indeed once pagan. He probably did once worship Apollo/Sol/Sol-Invictus. Christianity was then legal to practice, but was not "popular" nor widespread. He claimed to have a vision of Christ showing him the Chi-Rho (Greek monogram for "Jesus Christ") and with the exhortation, "By this, conquer". He then placed the Chi-Rho on the shields of his men and indeed did defeat his rival Maxentius at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge. What incentive did Constantine have to invent such a story (which is echoed by pagan historians of the time)? Why would he embrace Christianity when paganism was so popular and common?

It is indeed true that he did not receive Baptism until just before his death. It was also common for converts to wait many years as catechumens before being fully received into the Church - how else could one spot an imperial mole during the days of persecution, or discern a sincere believer to be when exposing them to the sacred mysteries of Christianity? In fact, in a portion of the early liturgy, catechumens were not allowed to view the most sacred portions of the liturgy -- this carries over today in some of the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches, as well as the (some?) Orthodox communions. I once had a liturgical missal of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom used by the Antiochian Orthodox that had a portion of the liturgy as follows (paraphrasing): "...let the catechumens depart! Let none of the unbaptized remain!..".

Penitents at the time would give their confession to the priest and the whole congregation, and penance often lasted for months or years, including the wearing of sackcloth, or being forbidden Communion, or entrance into the local church.

I'm assuming, gentle Christian, that you celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday as the Seventh-Day Adventists or some other Protestant denomination. Do you know that "Saturday" comes from "Saturn's-Day"? The holy day of Saturn - pagan god of agriculture! To imply that a Saturday (Saturn's Day) is pagan is just a unfair as to defame Sunday. The fact that Constantine was once pagan and may have or probably worshipped Sol is a convenient coincidence, nothing more.

You need to read more...

Peace,

Z



posted on Mar, 8 2007 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Zhenyghi

You need to read more...

Sure we all need to read more. But you have not shown me anything yet that I'm not familiar with.




Constantine did not "change" the day of the Sabbath to Sunday (Sun-Day or "Sol-Day" indeed!). It was a practice already in use by Christians in memorial of the day of the Resurrection, and also to differentiate from the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) -- this was a not so subtle statement to the Jews that the Christian Sabbath was a fulfillment of the Jewish Sabbath.


I'm afraid you are incorrect. Constantine changed the day of rest on March 7, 321 AD. He declared....."All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon the Venerable Day of the Sun." Thereby breaking the Commandment of the Jewish and Christian God.



Constantine was a secular ruler, a powerful one, mind you, but a secular one. He had the authority to call the council, but lacked the ecclesiastical authority. Riddle me this: If he had the authority to impose his will in that matter, why didn't he just issue an imperial decree? Why bother with calling a Church Council and incurring the expenses he had to bear?


Surely you know better. His empire was in shambles and falling apart. What small expense would a church council entale as opposed to his empire falling apart. He was attempting to repair the crumbling Roman Empire. He mandated religious toleration to Christians in the Roman Empire with the Edict of Milan in 313.



Constantine was indeed once pagan. He probably did once worship Apollo/Sol/Sol-Invictus. Christianity was then legal to practice, but was not "popular" nor widespread. He claimed to have a vision of Christ showing him the Chi-Rho (Greek monogram for "Jesus Christ") and with the exhortation, "By this, conquer". He then placed the Chi-Rho on the shields of his men and indeed did defeat his rival Maxentius at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge. What incentive did Constantine have to invent such a story (which is echoed by pagan historians of the time)? Why would he embrace Christianity when paganism was so popular and common?


I don't think he invented the story. The Chi-Rho is a formerly pagan symbol by the way. In 312 when Constantine had his vision (IN HOC SIGNO VINCES) he replaced the Roman Eagle with the pagan symbol as he saw a cross over the sun.

Before it became the monogram of Christ, the chi rho was the monogram of Chronos, the god of time, and an emblem of several solar deities.

altreligion.about.com...



Do you know that "Saturday" comes from "Saturn's-Day"? The holy day of Saturn - pagan god of agriculture! To imply that a Saturday (Saturn's Day) is pagan is just a unfair as to defame Sunday.

Sure I'm aware of that. Saturn was also considered Satan...........AND Monday is Moon Day, Tuesday is named after the Norse god Tyr, Wed is Wodans Day, Thursday is Thors Day, Friday is named after the goddess Figga the wife of Odin........and we can track these things to Nimrod and Semiramis of Babylon.




The fact that Constantine was once pagan and may have or probably worshipped Sol is a convenient coincidence, nothing more.


Are you trying to make me laugh..........you better read more......



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by VladTheImpaler

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I've been seeing a lot of comments from a lot of members on here who seem to have some sort of prejudice against the Catholic church.

Not only on this site but also all over the internet.

May I ask you Why?

Protestants, what is it you do not like about the Catholic church?

I have a very important point to make, so listen ok.

Do you know who chose the books that would be in the new testament?

The very books you base you faith upon, the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The acts of the apostles all the way to the book of Revelation.

Do you realize who it is that chose these books?

I'll tell you who it is, it's the Catholic church who chose them, that's who.

No matter what you may have against us, always remember that reason you believe what you believe is because the Catholic church chose the books of the new testament.


So you're openly admitting that the Bible is the pure creation of man and not the infallible word of god then, eh?

Thanks for clearing that up.


Where the Heck did you get this from?!?!?

I already said that the Catholic church is Christs original church.

GOD WORKS THROUGH THE CHURCH.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by thehumbleone]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 01:57 PM
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Sun, are you really serious?

It's like you're trying to say that Catholics are pagan or something.

We are reading the same gospels are we not?

Or are you a gnostic?



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone

Protestants, what is it you do not like about the Catholic church?



Evil men crept in and whether knowingly or unknowlingly took the gospel and perverted it. They mixed paganism with the truth until the truth of how someone is forgiven, got lost.

I can't stand what it is because it is a lie and for centuries people have been deceived into believeing they are saved when in reality they were not. And when they died they entered eternity apart from God.



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by thehumbleone

Protestants, what is it you do not like about the Catholic church?



Evil men crept in and whether knowingly or unknowlingly took the gospel and perverted it. They mixed paganism with the truth until the truth of how someone is forgiven, got lost.

I can't stand what it is because it is a lie and for centuries people have been deceived into believeing they are saved when in reality they were not. And when they died they entered eternity apart from God.


WOW, really strong words from you there.

I'm sorry you believe that, surely you don't know the greatness of our Lord.

I'm sorry you don't have enough faith in him.

Oh, and who are you to be judging others? You speak of the truth yet you do not follow it. Don't you read the bible?



1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. MATTHEW 7


You should be concerned if you're gonna enter eternity WITH God.

[edit on 10-3-2007 by thehumbleone]



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 08:13 AM
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I was naturally suspicious when I saw such a specific date given to when Sunday was "imposed". I did a Google search of the date and found quite a few whack-job websites with the same assertion, but no scholarly reference. There was one, to the so-called "Book of Facts".

Christianity was legalized (officially permitted) in 311 by Galerius, and the Edict of Milan was in 313 by Constantine (East) and Licinius (West).

I did a further search of "Edict of Milan", and the first website I found was by a group of United Methodist women who listed the text of the Edict (didn't mention anything SunMatrix claimed it mentioned), and you can hardly say that Methodists are apologists for Catholics.

The Bible mentions Sunday as the Christian sabbath in Acts 20:7 and I Corinthians 16:2.

The 90+% of the various Christians who worship on "Sun"day don't worship the Sun anymore than those who worship on Saturday worship Saturn, nor those that meet for Wednesday prayer worship Odin (Wotan - "Wotan's Day" = Wednesday).



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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I personal dont have problems with individual cathics. But the fact is this. The religion has wrong beliefs up and done. Over thousand and thoushand of years the bible said thou shalt not kill. And cathics start wars when peace could have been. The polps I personal dont believe and true followers of christ. the bible says it "Even the devil god to church" That polp of your sits on a upside down cross, and holds in his hand a broken cross. I personal believe that maybe the lower believers in cathics could be saved but the higher offical are probly got devils in them. Come on man never in the bible does it say pray to mary. thats stupid.

Following what the bible says and following what ANY church says is wrong. The bible is the word of God, not the high holy man. the bible. The bible says you only need your self and God to be saved. Mattew chapter 5- 12 at the end of the teaching. (Beatitdudes) It says every man is tot of God. You dont need anyone to find God but your self faith and works and the bible.

Praying you pray too God through Jesus. Jesus is the SON OF god. In every christian religion people are saved, it say it in the bible " if you believe in God and Jesus you are saved. That alone can make you saved. Any religion who says their religion is the right one is full of it. Cuz all christian religions have right belief and wrong ones. Even cathics. The only reason I tell you to be care full of the cathics cuz the bible tells us to watch out for those called most holy, and there religion is one of them, plus they got more wrong beliefs than most.



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