So You Hate Cops

Originally posted by chissler
What does that indicate? Has a police officer ever left you out to dry? Have you ever been in any immediate danger, in desperate need for help, and a cop completely ignored you?

That cops do not "lay down their lives every day" for me. No. No.

If not, how can you fault someone for not jumping into action, when the situation never presented itself.

I don't.

No cop has never laid their life down for me, but that doesn't mean I hate them, or have any negative feelings towards them.

My views about cops have nothing to do with them not "laying down their lives" for me.

Where did I say that you did say it?

Well, what's with the "believe it or not, everything is not about race" comment?

Originally posted by truthseeka
And it wasn't for me either. It was for whoever's call they were responding to.

And so I suppose that murderer or rapist or drug dealer that is off the street could never have hurt you or your family. Nope. Never in a million years. Cops don't do NOTHING for you. Lol, with that attitude, I couldn't say I blamed them if they really DID do nothing for you.

I was merely trying to acknowledge that, it is my opinion, that not everything in life is based on race. Due to your previous post history, a lot of your emphasis is directed towards race. An assumption on my part, I admit it. I have not followed this thread as closely as others, but it "seems" to be singing the same song as the rest.

So rather than assuming, I will ask directly. Apologies if the answer is clear, but I can not be bothered to browse all of the pages of this thread.

Does your skin color, directly or indirectly, come into play with this friction between yourself and law enforcement?

I've assumed that it has. If it does not, I retract my statement and apologize for the assumption. If it does, then my statement stands.

Not everything in life, has to do with race.

The "take it or leave it" was saying, "agree to disagree".

Just more twisting of terms that we have all come to expect from certain posters...

"Murder"
mur·der (mûr'dər) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

1.

Diallo ran up the outside steps toward his apartment house doorway at their approach, ignoring their orders to stop and "show his hands."
~~~~~~
As the suspect reached into his jacket

Your Source...

DUH

2.

convicted of criminally negligent homicide

Tried and convicted...
Not enough for you? Oh yeah, you probably wanted him shot.

3.

fired unintentionally
The grand jury found the shooting to be accidental.

4.

Guzman had an argument inside the club with a woman and threatened to get a gun
~~~~~~~
he undercover officer followed the group and Bell was ordered by the officer to raise his hands after getting in his car. Instead, the car hit the undercover officer and, seconds later, an unmarked police minivan.

Again
DUH

Again

All Your own sources and absolutely NONE fit the definition of MURDER..

OOOPPPPSSSS

Now here are some murders for you...

And they ALL fit the definition..

1.

Cop Killer Found Guilty Of First Degree Murder
That's where he crossed paths with a troublemaker named Troy Davey.

As the unsuspecting cop took notes from the man who claimed to be a 'victim' of a hold-up, the suspect pulled a knife and cut the officer's throat. It was over in seconds and Garrett succumbed to his wounds.
MURDER

MURDER

2.

California Cop Killer Gets Death Sentence
Camacho was convicted of shooting Zeppetella 13 times during a traffic stop in the parking lot of the Navy Federal Credit Union at 4180 Avenida de la Plata on June 13, 2003.
MURDER

MURDER

3.

'Grand Theft Auto' cop killer found guilty
In June 2003, Moore was charged with the murder of two Fayette police officers - Arnold Strickland and James Crump - and a civilian police worker, Leslie Mealer. Then 18 years old, Moore had been apprehended by Strickland and Crump for allegedly stealing a car. Taken to the the local police HQ, Moore was later said to have grabbed Strickland's gun and shot all three men in the head.
Murder

MURDER

4.

Accused Laval cop killer to appear in court
The 41-year-old man will make his first court appearance in Friday's shooting of Det.-Sgt. Daniel Tessier, a police officer in Laval, north of Montreal.

Tessier was gunned down during a drug bust south of Montreal.

The 42-year-old officer and father of two was in his first month on the drug squad when he was shot in the head.
MURDER

5.

Jury weighs death penalty for cop killer
ARLINGTON -- A Northern Virginia jury is continuing its deliberation today on whether to recommend the death penalty for a man convicted of murdering a Norfolk police officer in 2005.
MURDER

Now there are some examples, (I have many more) of killings that ACTUALLY fit the ACTUAL definition of MURDER...

NOT YOUR definition
The real one, from the dictionary..

Semper

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by truthseeka
And it wasn't for me either. It was for whoever's call they were responding to.

And so I suppose that murderer or rapist or drug dealer that is off the street could never have hurt you or your family. Nope. Never in a million years. Cops don't do NOTHING for you. Lol, with that attitude, I couldn't say I blamed them if they really DID do nothing for you.

Hey, anything COULD happen. Doesn't mean it will.

And, cops are more of a threat to me and mine than murderers, rapists, and drug dealers.

Originally posted by chissler
I was merely trying to acknowledge that, it is my opinion, that not everything in life is based on race. Due to your previous post history, a lot of your emphasis is directed towards race. An assumption on my part, I admit it. I have not followed this thread as closely as others, but it "seems" to be singing the same song as the rest.

A look at my posts in other forums (9/11, WOT, Current Events, Conspiracies in Religion, etc.) will show this is FALSE.

Does your skin color, directly or indirectly, come into play with this friction between yourself and law enforcement?

Hell yes it does.

If it does, then my statement stands.

Not everything in life, has to do with race.

This statement is also false, in that it assumes police are everything in life.

Semp...

Notice how most cop killing people get the death penalty, whereas most people killing cops get acquitted. Also, notice how most people killing cops terminate people with EXTREME prejudice (dozens of bullets are often fired at suspects by multiple people killing cops). Cop killing people don't usually have a posse helping them unload dozens of rounds at cops, with the chance to reload and keep firing.

Originally posted by truthseeka
And, cops are more of a threat to me and mine than murderers, rapists, and drug dealers.

Aight, now I have said some whacked out crap on this board before, but that HAS to take the cake. Anyone who would say such a thing imo has lost it. You telling me you'd rather have a murderer show up at your front (or back) door than a cop? puhleeeeease.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by truthseeka
And, cops are more of a threat to me and mine than murderers, rapists, and drug dealers.

Aight, now I have said some whacked out crap on this board before, but that HAS to take the cake. Anyone who would say such a thing imo has lost it. You telling me you'd rather have a murderer show up at your front (or back) door than a cop? puhleeeeease.

That's not what I said. I'd rather neither one of them come knocking at my door.

What I DID say is that cops pose more of a threat to me than murderers, rapists, and drug dealers. Drug dealers don't want to hurt me; they just want to make money. Rapists don't want to rape me, as men are primarily only raped in prison. Murderers don't want to kill me, as most people are killed by people they know. Nobody I know wants to kill me.

HOWEVER, guess who WILL kill me without knowing me? Guess who ALMOST killed me IN MY OWN HOUSE!! It DEFINITELY wasn't some murdering criminal (on the streets, that is).

Do I hate cops....No I have a few friends that are cops.(Not in my town though)

Do I have a certain anxiety or suspicion whenever cops are around..yes...BUT that stems from the town I live in..small town of under 3000 folks..With a rather large police presence.We have the local police department as well as the county's sheriff department based in our town..My problem with the local police is they often use their power to push people around and get their way.The old Captain's son was the biggest drug dealer in town and everyone and I mean everyone knew it.Why wasn't he ever arrested for it?Another was caught with an underage girl in his patrol car!!Is he in prison??Nope still on the force.

My problem with the county department is two of their deputies are getting away with killing an unarmed man (which just over a dozen people witnessed it)
The man was shot because he wouldn't get on the ground and turned to run(according to the witnesses)The police around here would rather shoot somebody than to run into the woods after them.Mainly because they know better.Chase some of these people around here into the woods and there's a good chance that's the last you'll be seen.


Now my friends that are cops....have I ever seen them abuse their power??No
Have I seen them break the law since becoming cops??Oh yeah..mostly drinking and driving.

There is one officer in town I have to say right on too..He only works on the local force part time and works full time with the highway patrol..I have talked many times with him and have to say he takes pride in his job and doing it well...only cop round here that actually checks our log books on Ephedrine sales.

I guess my point is you have the good and you have the bad.

To Semper....
Dude if you do your job with fairness and with our safety in mind.. which from some of your post I believe you do then no worries bud...just remember you can't please all the people all of the time..no matter what you're still gonna have those people that hate you just because of the badge and a lot of the stereotype that goes with it.

Just my .02
Simon

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
But the examples you give are not from the kind of human being that I have come to know semperfortis as, and certainly don't represent his intent with the OP, imo.

I have never accused semper of killing anyone, out of racism. (I understand that, in his line of work, he may have had to kill people for legitimate reasons, and I don't fault him for that.) He and I have spoken in the past and, though we often disagree, I have a good impression of him. I think he can be hard-headed at times, but I like him. I should put him on my 'foe' list. That being said, throughout the OP, he says "us," thereby aligning himself with the 'bad apples'. He has chosen to group himself with them; I didn't arbitrarily make the choice.

So now this is about race?

This has been about race since the OP.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Of course we are racial profiling when we stop middle eastern looking men prior to boarding aircraft. Maybe that is because the VAST majority of terrorists are middle eastern males.
...
You have a bad experience with one police officer and all of a sudden the entire 700K police officers in the country are corrupt, they are all racist and out to get you.
...
A favorite comment I have heard a hundred times; Well they arrested my son/daughter because he/she is black. Even though there were white people there doing the same thing.

I think if this society goes down that road, and most of us don't trust most of the police, we are headed for real trouble

Parts of society have already been pushed down that road. And the NYPD has a large part in pushing even more people down that road. Do you recall the 2004 RNC?

A criminal court judge ordered the release of hundreds of Bush protesters Thursday, ruling that police held them illegally without charges for more than 40 hours...Several dozen of those detained said that they had not taken part in protests... In all, police arrested more than 1,700 people, or nearly three times as many as were arrested in Chicago at the 1968 Democratic National Convention, which had far more violence.

Those coming out of the jail in southern Manhattan said that police never advised them of their right to talk to an attorney. And several people, independent of one another, said police told them that if they signed a document admitting guilt and waiving the right to sue for false arrest, they would be released early.
Judge Orders Demonstrators Freed

My purpose in joining this conversation was never to express any hatred of semper or other good cops. What good could come of that? My purpose was to explain to semper why people aren't so trusting of him, a good cop. It won't make his job easier, but maybe it couold help him lay the blame where it actually belongs: at the feet of the 'bad apples.' It is they who make your jobs difficult. The average citizen is just trying not to get shot by mistake. Don't be mad at us.

Rarely have I ever run into a cop that I felt a gut instinct not to trust because I sensed malice. Black, white, or otherwise.

That must be a great feeling, no sarcasm intended, really. Unfortunately, black men aren't afforded that luxury.

Let me tell you something. That's the kind of crap that really gets me fired up. You had better consider real carefully what you are saying there. Those cops lay their lives on the line for you, yes YOU, every damn day. For US. ALL of us. Now if you wanna be the ungrateful subvert then fine.

You're being irrational. I am not an ungrateful subvert, and I really do take offense that you would say such a thing. Other members on this board know that generations of my family have served in this country's wars since WWII.

I would like the police to do what they're meant to do, what we pay them to do.

To you people that say "Where the hell's a cop when you need one?"

Like I said, you're being irrational. When have I ever said that? Take 5 minutes, calm down, and preview before you reply. And that wasn't meant to be condescending or patronizing at all, it's just that you seem very angry, like, at me personally, and that's not helpful here.

[This post contains replies to yanchek, chissler, and semper.]

Originally posted by yanchek
With your rantish opening statement you left us very limited space for intelligent discussion. You painted a picture in black and white, us against them, good versus evil, and you put youself and police on the side of good and with that, you put different thinking ATS member on the side of evil, so some emotional responses are not surprising.

I didn't see this earlier, but you are absolutely right. I hadn't thought about it that way. I believe this was originally posted in rants(?), but even still, you're right; there was a good vs evil feeling in that first post (and the ensuing ones).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by chissler
I disagree. I do not believe this thread is about semper. I believe it is about police in general. So with that, what I have said is certainly applicable.

While I agree that this thread is not about semper, the anti-police sentiment on the board lately stems mostly from discussions of racism and white privilege. In that context, it is only appropriate to call him on the very inappropriate activities of his brethren. That's why the good cops, in this context, are irrelevant. I'm sure we're all thankful for them, but it's important to remember that not all of us have equal access to the kinder, gentler side of the police.

How is it any different? Honestly though?

Because it's a job and we pay them to do it. Therefore, we should have some say in how they do it.

Believe it or not, everything in life is not about race.

This comment, I believe, is misdirected. I was the one who brought up race... but I have also shown that it is larger than just race, that the police can be turned against anyone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by semperfortis
Just more twisting of terms that we have all come to expect from certain posters...

If you have something to say, say it without being catty about it. If you think I'm lying, which you obviously do, just present your evidence, without all the snide remarks. And, since you brought it up, who are these "certain posters"?

1.

As the suspect reached into his jacket, Carroll believed[emphasis added] Diallo was drawing a firearm and yelled "Gun!" to alert his colleagues. The officers opened fire on Diallo and during the burst McMellon fell down the steps, appearing to be shot. The four officers fired forty-one shots, hitting Diallo nineteen times. Investigation found no weapons on Diallo's body; the item he had pulled out of his jacket was not a gun, but a wallet.

The rest of the story...

Just like they say, "Shoot first, ask questions later", right?

2.

Conroy did not receive any jail time but was convicted of criminally negligent homicide and was given five years probation.

Tried and convicted...
Not enough for you? Oh yeah, you probably wanted him shot.

No, I wanted him to get more than a slap on the wrists.

3.
In this case, thankfully, for once, the Police Commisioner Ray Kelly condemned the shooting and vowed that the department would review its policies.

Said Police Commissioner Ray Kelly "At this point, based on the facts we have gathered, there appears to be no justification for the shooting... This is a tragic incident that compels us to take an in-depth look at our tactics and training, both for new and veteran officers."[2]

How did the police union, headquarters of 'the people who would lay down their lives for you,' respond to their commissioner's call for reform in light of this tragic mistake?

Meanwhile, the controversy over NYPD Commissioner Kelly's initial statements on the shooting grew, with Patrick J. Lynch, the president of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Assocation (the NYPD's union) stating: Commissioner Kelly gave a message to the 23,000 New York City police officers that said basically this: Take all the risks of doing your job, go up on all those roofs, patrol all those subway platforms, walk the streets day and night, take the risks to yourself, take the risks to your family, but then when the worst happens, when there's a tragedy, that you will not have the backing of the New York police commissioner.

Oh, selfishly, as usual. Always protecting their own. The shooter even said it was a mistake. That's all the commissioner was saying... you know, We'll say we're working on it, but not really do anything." We knew that, but we were happy he made the gesture. The cops weren't even happy with that. I'm sure they got over it though, because the guy ended up getting away with the shooting... as usual.

On February 17, 2004 after nearly a month of investigation, the grand jury declined to indict Officer Neri on charges of criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter, finding instead the shooting to be accidental.

4.

The New York Post reported that, according to an unnamed undercover officer, Guzman had an argument inside the club with a woman and threatened to get a gun.

Yeah, right. I don't believe "unnamed government officials", either.

The undercover officer followed the group and Bell was ordered by the officer to raise his hands after getting in his car. Instead, the car hit the undercover officer and, seconds later, an unmarked police minivan.

You're leaving the club after your bachelor party, you and your friends get in your car, a guy tells you to put your hands up, you attempt to peel off. In doing so, you hit the unknown man and a van that has appeared out of nowhere to block you off.

I know it's wrong to hit people, at any time, but the guy was trying to rob you, car-jack you, or even kill you... right?

Ironically, yes.

"Murder"
mur·der (mûr'dər) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

So, back to your definition. I would submit that in each one of these cases, there was premeditated malice. Prejudice against black men.

You'll say I'm wrong, of course, but admit it to yourself: there are extremely racist people, some of them are cops, and they murder innocent men with impunity.

Oh, and try quoting the whole sentence next time, eh?

quote: Originally posted by semperfortis
HH, Please show me proof the police are rampant murdering INNOCENT people...

The Stolen lives project. A site by families of people murdered by the police.

stolenlives.org...

Stolen Lives provides important and compelling exposures of the nationwide epidemic of police brutality and murder. People who’ve been killed, their families and loved ones, and communities under the gun speak through the pages and tell their stories. And they get a platform to speak out even more broadly.

Among people who don’t deal with police brutality in their daily lives, this book shows that it’s more than just a “few bad apples” or some “isolated incidents.” Many such people will be moved to join the struggle against police brutality and stand with those under the gun when they see the shocking scope of this epidemic.

Hi HarlemHottie.

I know this is the subject of another thread now, but this is definitely an example of white privilege if I ever saw one. The fact that you all can sit here, so sanctimonious, so smug, and tell us- what are you telling us?- we shouldn't mistrust the police? We should look at them as friends/ helpers? That's ridiculous. I would be stupid to listen to you, because it could cost me my life.

There are two different worlds in many societies. For these on board who feel this way, the only way you could make them understand this, is to make them black for a week.

A young man on Oprah did this a few years back. He was going to be black for a few weeks, and he could only do it for about 3 days. He could not handle it. The racism, the hatred, the subtle none acceptance. He went back to being white in a shorter space of time than he wanted to.

So sometimes unless someone lives it they will have no idea, and yes they will be sanctimonious and smug, until it happens to them.

As well as I can gather from a computer screen, it seems that this group, this "us," consists of black Americans who are sick and tired of this extralegal behavior... you know, murdering black men and then getting off scott-free.

It's the dividing line on a lot of threads lately here.


Hi JamesMcMahn
.

If I had been in this situtation I probably would have done the same thing, its common sense that you don't reach in you waistband and then bring your arm up in a quick motion. This almost sounds like police assisted suicide.

The sad part is your probably do mean it, and probably do think that way.

That's why cops can be compared to the mail delivery person or any other profession. If a person reaches out to get something from their wallet, they probably won't be shot and killed by the mail person for doing a normal everyday human thing.



Hi chissler

How is it any different? Honestly though? If I have a problem with an individual because they are black, how is that any different than if I had a problem with them because they were a cop?

A cop is something that you do for 8-12 hrs and come home and take of the uniform and could be judged in another capacity. A race is something that you carry with you the whole time.

A race is also a whole entire population of people. A job is just that, something that is done 9-5/etc.
You can say that you don't like Lawyers, but it's a job. A lot of people don't like lawyers. But people can take off the suit at the end of the day. A race is a peoples, and it's something that you can't take off.

I can say I don't like lawyers, and you can get upset if it's your profession, but a race is what you are at the core. You can probably brush off the lawyer remark to a degree, but the race remarks go to the core. Well for some people, who take the time to care about what is being posted.

Believe it or not, everything in life is not about race.

Lately on this forum, in this section it feels like it. However not everything is about race, but for the people who have to worry about their survival at the hands of an unjust cop because of race, then their hatred might be justified, and then race does become a factor.

Has a police officer ever left you out to dry? Have you ever been in any immediate danger, in desperate need for help, and a cop completely ignored you?

Yeah I'm going through gang stalking and going to the police was a hindrance not a help. Despite other targets of this form of harassment warning me that not only do they not help, but they could put you in more danger than before, I took the chance that people were just wrong and that the police really do care and want to help, and the people were right. So I can speak from recent and personal experience.

Now do I have to go through every cop in the city to find a good one who will help, when going to the police has made my situation worst? No, and it would not be wise or a welcome thing to do.

Personally, after the things I have now read, seen and heard from others, I would really think twice about it. Not every cop will ever be bad, but when people say things, I am more inclined to listen and to trust that they know what they are speaking about.


Hi truthseeka.

And, cops are more of a threat to me and mine than murderers, rapists, and drug dealers.

I think that for many people this is a true statement. Do you know how sad that is, when people are taught to trust the police and they are suppose to be there to help, and then many people learn that the opposite is true.


Hi TrueAmerican.

Aight, now I have said some whacked out crap on this board before, but that HAS to take the cake. Anyone who would say such a thing imo has lost it. You telling me you'd rather have a murderer show up at your front (or back) door than a cop? puhleeeeease.

He probably means it, and this is why. If a murderer shows up at this door and he kills that person, or assaults them in self defence he might have a chance, more importantly his chances might be viewed differently for survival.

If a cop shows up and he reaches for his wallet and gets killed, by some it would be called assisted suicide by cop. He would be dead and people would think he did something to deserve it.

If he somehow managed to kill the cop, which I think is more uncommon in these house situations, then he would probably go to jail.

So realistically, his chances might be better with the murder.

I can't speak for trueseeka, but I am guessing, he would prefer to have neither show up at his door.


Hi truthseeka.

That's not what I said. I'd rather neither one of them come knocking at my door.

Ha, ha. I guessed right. See above post. I guess you would rather have neither.

Originally posted by Harassment101
Hi JamesMcMahn
.

If I had been in this situtation I probably would have done the same thing, its common sense that you don't reach in you waistband and then bring your arm up in a quick motion. This almost sounds like police assisted suicide.

The sad part is your probably do mean it, and probably do think that way.

That's why cops can be compared to the mail delivery person or any other profession. If a person reaches out to get something from their wallet, they probably won't be shot and killed by the mail person for doing a normal everyday human thing.

The reason I tell everyone to keep their hands where I can see them is simple. When I had only been an officer about 6 months, I had responded to a loud music complaint, when I had knocked on the front door a 14 year old White girl answered the door I asked her to turn the music down, I saw her reach for the back of her pants and pull out a 5 shot .22, she then proceded to shoot me in the shoulder before I could return fire. That is why I take no chances. even the most innocent looking person can have a weapon. To this day no one has figured out why she did this.

Originally posted by HarlemHottie

How is it any different?

Because it's a job and we pay them to do it. Therefore, we should have some say in how they do it.

Nicely put!

In that context, you are correct. As a taxpayer especially, you most certainly should have an opinion on how they do their job. However, and I am not saying you, nor anyone else is guilty of this, usage of terms like "pig" are derogatory to all cops, solely on the basis that they are cops. In this context, it is no different then any racial slur. If a cop does something immoral, I agree that it is appropriate to carry a negative opinion on this individual. The individual only though. It is not fair to other cops, who may be good men and women, to judge them on the actions of others.

When I think of an opinion, I tend to think of something constructive. What is constructive about the term, "Pig"?

HH,

Sorry about being somewhat "catty", I can never EVER blame a woman for having moods as many as I go through...lol


My problem was not with the horrible incidents that you used as examples, it was the fact that they do NOT constitute "Murder."

That is a simple fact.

So the term was used erroneous and as it is somewhat of an inflammatory term, I wished to set it straight.

As for you paying the salary and thus having a say...

That is true as a Community, Town, City, County or in my case a State...
NOT an individual.....

An individual's "say" comes into play in local and state elections... You can of course imagine the chaos if each citizen was allowed to regulate the "Policing" that was directed at, for or to them.

Again HH, I apologize for the rudeness of my recent posting toward you, it was out of line and I am sorry...

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis


Again HH, I apologize for the rudeness of my recent posting toward you, it was out of line and I am sorry...

Semper

If police could be as honest on the job,when they get it wrong I doubt you guys would have much to complain about with people disliking or trusting police

Originally posted by HarlemHottie

It is a sobering reminder that cops are people too, and need to be treated with regard. The vast majority of cops treat people with a high degree of respect up front. How fast that respect is lost usually depends on the citizen, moreso than the cop.

Please. I am so tired of this. I'm all for giving people the respect afforded to any other human being. I'm equally respectful to everyone I meet, regardless of their uniform. However, I will not bow and scrape at the feet of those who kill my brothers with impunity. You're, like, in a totally different world.

Oh please. "Killing your brothers with impunity"? You cite 4 cases,over a period of 7 years, three of which are very questionable. This in a city of millions with thousands of crimes committed per day.

Save the drama.

Originally posted by jsobecky


Oh please.

"Killing your brothers with impunity"? You cite 4 cases,over a period of 7 years, three of which are very questionable. This in a city of millions with thousands of crimes committed per day.

Save the drama.

If it happens once thats cause for some drama.I`m sure its happened more than once,with many more unfairly treated across the board no matter what race or sex.

If HH has first hand experience or has witnessed first hand someone being unfairly treated,who are you to say what she knows is untrue or not valid.

I think she has a right to say she is unhappy with things as they are or have been.

From an outsiders point of view it seems guns and drugs are the leading contributors to the divide.

Hi JamesMcMahn.

If I had been in this situation I probably would have done the same thing, its common sense that you don't reach in you waistband and then bring your arm up in a quick motion. This almost sounds like police assisted suicide.

That is why I take no chances. even the most innocent looking person can have a weapon. To this day no one has figured out why she did this.

I am not debating your call or your choice to feel safe by asking people to keep their hands where you can see them, or that you would have done the same thing. I Was specifically commenting on the fact that you felt that this happening to someone was "police assisted suicide."

People are not trying to in most cases kill themselves, when they reach for that wallet. They are doing normal things. Your first reaction is to reach for the wallet show your id, and prove your innocent. It's not an instinct to say, oh I have just lived long enough, take me out officer. That was the portion that I was commenting on.


Hi gps777.

If police could be as honest on the job,when they get it wrong I doubt you guys would have much to complain about with people disliking or trusting police

I think this is true with many professions. If people could say sorry, and admit when a mistake had happened, I don't think there would be so many lawsuits, or angry bitter people. Just the I'm sorry, I made a mistake, would fix so many things sometimes.

As a society I think we look to lawyers to fix things, and no one ever admits to wrong doing because they could get sued, but the reason they get sued is cause they don't admit to wrong doings.

It sad. Being able to say sorry, I admit I was wrong, is often more of a balm then any settlement in court.


Hi jsobecky.

Oh please. "Killing your brothers with impunity"? You cite 4 cases,over a period of 7 years, three of which are very questionable. This in a city of millions with thousands of crimes committed per day.

Save the drama.

I know that HH off the top of her head was only able to site four cases, but did you see the link to the stolen lives project?

stolenlives.org...

It's more then 4 cases.