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So You Hate Cops

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posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by jsobecky

They have no choice but to enforce the laws that are on the books. They took an oath to do so.


The following orders defense does not work, and I thought that was established a long time ago.

As for taking an oath, what does that say about a man who takes an oath to enforce laws that he knows are unjust?

The "following orders" defense only applies if the order is illegal.


This question is for you and Rasobasi.

You are mugged, you call the cops. You tell the cop where the mugger hangs out.

The cop says to you, "Well, he probably needed money because he was hungry, or needed a fix. Besides, I don't believe in that law; it hurts those who are are hungry or needs a fix. So, I'm not going to do anything about your complaint".

There is absolutely nothing different between that scenario and your "unjust law" scenario. Who decides what is unjust?

Do you want to give that power to the police?

Police are there to enforce the laws, not to decide if the laws are just.




posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 01:19 PM
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Jso, you'd be surprised how often an officer will do nothing even given the information about who committed the crime, where it was committed, and where the criminal is currently.

So, we do know that it is happening, depending on who the enforcing officer is.

A quote from one of my favorite TV shows goes something like this:

"“Let me tell you a little secret. A patrolling officer on his beat is the one true dictatorship in America. We can lock a guy up on a humble, we can lock him up for real, or we can say, ‘F*** it,’ pull under the expressway and drink ourselves to death, and our side partners will cover it."

Jimmy McNulty, HBOs The Wire

And every word of it is true



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 01:22 PM
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I honestly don't understand you folks that want the police to decide whether laws are just or unjust. Do you want them to wear robes while they do their job? They have a tough enough job as it is.

Do you expect a judge to patrol your neighborhood? A lawyer to slap the cuffs on a wife-beater?

Where does your personal responsibility enter into the equation??



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Jso, you'd be surprised how often an officer will do nothing even given the information about who committed the crime, where it was committed, and where the criminal is currently.

So, we do know that it is happening, depending on who the enforcing officer is.

A quote from one of my favorite TV shows goes something like this:

"“Let me tell you a little secret. A patrolling officer on his beat is the one true dictatorship in America. We can lock a guy up on a humble, we can lock him up for real, or we can say, ‘F*** it,’ pull under the expressway and drink ourselves to death, and our side partners will cover it."

Jimmy McNulty, HBOs The Wire

And every word of it is true

And bucking them at every turn only makes it worse, esp. when you are in the wrong.

There are bad apples, but I'd say 97% of them are good. I'll take those percentages.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 01:28 PM
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My personal responsibility is to protect myself, while doing no harm to others, or society. To enjoy freedom, while not hindering the freedoms of others. That's everyone's obligation. It's the police's job to protect and serve. Who are they protecting by enforcing unjust laws?

And yes, police do act as judge as they walk the beat. They judge when to apply the laws, and when not to. It's a fact, and it is always happening.

[edit on 12-3-2007 by Rasobasi420]



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Where does your personal responsibility enter into the equation??


My personal responsibility enters into the equation by not swearing an allegiance to uphold the laws of a corrupt system regardless of how unjust those laws might be.

Actually, IMHO, I think that's everyone's personal responsibility.

[edit on 12-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Jso, you'd be surprised how often an officer will do nothing even given the information about who committed the crime, where it was committed, and where the criminal is currently.


Fully, man! Fully.

I remember when my radio was stolen out of my car one time. I called the pigs up, and they basically told me "who cares?"

Johnny Law told me that there was NOTHING they could do about it. I ask if they could do something like...oh, I dunno, INVESTIGATE it. Johnny Law told me they could come take fingerprints, but they weren't going to because it would do no good.

I asked them to come print my car, as there was a rash of car stereo thefts in the area at the time. Johnny Law says "no," and hangs up on me.

Serve and protect my mahogany brown ass.

Phoenix, your avatar reminds me of the Family Guy episode where Peter and his friends are spying on Lois from the police van the cop friend got. He presses a button, and robot hands come from the ceiling and cuff Peter. Peter laughs, then the hands uncuff him.

Cleveland then decides to try it out. The cop (haven't watched Family Guy in a while, so I forget his name) says "Cleveland, NOOO!" But, he's too late; Cleveland, who is black, stands where Peter just was.

The robot arms come down, this time with nightsticks in their hands, and a voice begins screaming "minority suspect! Minority suspect!" The robot arms then proceed to touch Cleveland up, Rodney King style. Then, ANOTHER robot hand comes down with a gun. Then, the voice says, "look, he has a gun," as he plants the gun on Cleveland, who is still being touched up.

Ah, like Homer would say, "it's funny cuz it's true." They should start putting that sign in some neighborhoods...




posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
My personal responsibility is to protect myself, while doing no harm to others, or society. To enjoy freedom, while not hindering the freedoms of others. That's everyone's obligation. It's the police's job to protect and serve. Who are they protecting by enforcing unjust laws?

All of us, by being a consistent point. I want an officer who is dedicated to upholding the oath that he took.


And yes, police do act as judge as they walk the beat. They judge when to apply the laws, and when not to. It's a fact, and it is always happening.

Yes, and we've all been the beneficiary of that judgement. We've all been cut slack.

But when push comes to shove, they will enforce the laws that are on the books, regardless of whether they are just or not.



Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by jsobecky
Where does your personal responsibility enter into the equation??


My personal responsibility enters into the equation by not swearing an allegiance to uphold the laws of a corrupt system regardless of how unjust those laws might be.

Actually, IMHO, I think that's everyone's personal responsibility.

Yes, phoenix, but we didn't have to take an oath to uphold the laws. The cops did.

You guys are relentless. I respect your conviction to what you believe is right, but I think you and Ras are refusing to acknowledge the limits that cops have to work under.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Yes, phoenix, but we didn't have to take an oath to uphold the laws. The cops did.


No one had to.

They chose to take an oath to uphold the laws of a corrupt system no matter how unjust those laws might be... and you ask me to have respect for this?

Sie waren folgende Aufträge


[edit on 12-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:24 PM
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Between this thread, and the thread about the smell of marijuana, I sometimes forget which point I'm arguing.

I'm still under the belief that it is unwise to trust police simply because they are police. I don't believe they have my well being at heart, and based on personal experience, can't trust them as far as I can throw them. Do I hate them? No. Do I think that as a rule they are untrustworthy? Absolutely. They are as bad as the drug dealers and gang members that keep people from walking the streets safely. They are two warring gangs with innocent people in the crossfire. And, they are both at fault.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by jsobecky
Yes, phoenix, but we didn't have to take an oath to uphold the laws. The cops did.


No one had to.

They chose to take an oath to uphold the laws of a corrupt system no matter how unjust those laws might be... and you ask me to have respect for this?

Sie waren folgende Aufträge


[edit on 12-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]


I havent been in a situation where I have been forced to uphold a corrupt or unjust law.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
I havent been in a situation where I have been forced to uphold a corrupt or unjust law.


If you are from Kyoto, then I really have nothing to say as I am not familiar with the laws, or practices of the Japanese police.

[edit on 12-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
I remember when my radio was stolen out of my car one time. I called the pigs up, and they basically told me "who cares?"

Johnny Law told me that there was NOTHING they could do about it. I ask if they could do something like...oh, I dunno, INVESTIGATE it. Johnny Law told me they could come take fingerprints, but they weren't going to because it would do no good.

I asked them to come print my car, as there was a rash of car stereo thefts in the area at the time. Johnny Law says "no," and hangs up on me.


It wouldnt have done any good to dust for prints, I have never seen a situation like this solved by fingerprints. The only way these things are ever solve is when you catch someone trying to fence them, you catch them in the act, or someone gives you a VERY good description and you spot them later.


df1

posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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99.99999999 percent of Americans love good cops and only hate bad cops as we all should. Unfortunately the reputation of the good cops is frequently tarnished by a few rotten apples. I'm sure every cop on ATS can agree with this sentiment.

I am a candidate in the ATS 2007 Presidential campaign and in this capacity I have developed an abstract for a piece of legislation titled the Police Rights Act in response to this cry for help from the police officers that post on ATS.

JamesMcMahn, semperfortis and the rest of the good cops on ATS, it is you who were my inspiration and so from my heart I dedicate it to all of you. You deserve it and I hope that in some small way this clearly lets you know how I feel.

Police Rights Act

Please contact your union, your chief and your elected representatives to help me pass this bill for all of the good cops.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
I havent been in a situation where I have been forced to uphold a corrupt or unjust law.


If you are from Kyoto, then I really have nothing to say as I am not familiar with the laws, and practices of the Japanese police.


I live in Kyoto now, I used to live in Virginia. I was a Corporal with the Danville Police Department and a State Trooper after that.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by jsobecky
Yes, phoenix, but we didn't have to take an oath to uphold the laws. The cops did.



No one had to.

They chose to take an oath to uphold the laws of a corrupt system no matter how unjust those laws might be... and you ask me to have respect for this?

Yes, I do. Put yourself into the mindset of a young rookie, who wants to do good for his city/town and his neighborhood. How can you condemn him for his decision?

How can you expect a man to know which laws are corrupt and which are just? That would take a lifetime of research, with no guarantees at the end.

This is not a US specific problem. Every country in the world has the same problems. What should we do, eliminate policemen worldwide?



Sie waren folgende Aufträge


[edit on 12-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Don't do that to me, man. I only speak two languages - English and profane.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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Only the ones who think they're above the law and can do whatever they want.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Yes, I do. Put yourself into the mindset of a young rookie, who wants to do good for his city/town and his neighborhood. How can you condemn him for his decision?

How can you expect a man to know which laws are corrupt and which are just? That would take a lifetime of research, with no guarantees at the end.


Sorry, but I wont...ever. I do not feel that it takes a lifetime of research to know how unjust the US legal system is. I mean, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that the majority of US laws throughout time have been unjust.


This is not a US specific problem. Every country in the world has the same problems. What should we do, eliminate policemen worldwide?

In a perfect world, of course there would be no pigs. Until then, maybe we could treat policing not unlike we treat jury duty. Turn it into another civic responsibility that can be shared and experienced amongst the general populace.


Don't do that to me, man. I only speak two languages - English and profane.


Sorry. Wir=We, Sie=they, waren=were, folgende=following Aufträge=orders ....

Auf Deutsche naturlich.


[edit on 12-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone
Only the ones who think they're above the law and can do whatever they want.


Thank you for your insight sir, I'll be sure to pass it along.


[edit on 12-3-2007 by Rasobasi420]



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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I hate how cops think they need to give you a big speech when they catch you breaking a law. Every ticket I have ever got came with a speech on how I shouldn't speed or you should do this or not do that. I'm like give me my ****in ticket and walk away dude. Arrest me or shut the hell up. I'm grown you want to feel important give some little kids a speech if you catch me doing something just do what you got to do and shut up.



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