Wiccans

Before anything else, know yourself.

Fasciniating thread, because i can easily imagine myself asking the same thing at one time.

The short answer and one that will always serve you well is that if you need to ask complete strangers on a net forum about spell casting then the odds are you shouldnt even comtemplate doing that kind of work. there are no shortcuts, its old fashioned study and work im afraid. besides will take your mind off the problems for a while.

Like you was raised a xtian, at a young age got into trouble for commenting that there are no dinosaurs in the bible and how did the tower of bable builders breathe in space?.... my ass hurt for days after that one!

in early adulthood i was preoccupied with beer, girls food marriage kids etc. after a while i started to question things that i couldnt answer. my spiritual path went something like this :

xtian protestant -> methodist.
atheist/agnostic depending on mood.
spiritualist
hippy
wiccan.
prehistoric.stoneage practices


then things really took off. i learnt about meditaion OBE channelling spell casting etc. But the real awakening came when i realised that the rituals are designed to fortify the belief of the caster and the reciever. that the majick comes from within, its our thoughts that shape our reality .... its when they shape others reality that things get complicated.

Right now i am an ecclectic mix of all the above i guess, the past shapes all of us. Everytime i stumble on something new a new path opens up for me and i am new to the site and the net, and in this thread alone i have seen two things i wish to examine further. the path is long.

going back to wiccans though... they got a couple of things right for sure, the 3 fold law.... you want to slap someone face be prepared for a broken hand and the rede: do as you will as long as it harms no one (words to that effect anyway,, been a long time since i had to say that)

Good luck my friend through partial ignorance you have opened the door to a big new world... ENJOY!

I had not figured on this becoming such a huge thread. Anyhow I guess desperation makes for a funny bedmate. More so I need to fix myself before I try any attempts at fixing the past.

Originally posted by w810i
I had not figured on this becoming such a huge thread. Anyhow I guess desperation makes for a funny bedmate. More so I need to fix myself before I try any attempts at fixing the past.

Absolutly!

Witchvox has some good articles (one of mine is around there somewhere):
www.witchvox.com...
here's their "basics" section
www.witchvox.com...
There's quite a number of pagan religions. Here's some of the major branches
en.wikipedia.org...

Magic Mirror

Originally posted by w810i
I had not figured on this becoming such a huge thread. Anyhow I guess desperation makes for a funny bedmate. More so I need to fix myself before I try any attempts at fixing the past.

If you take a truly honest look at who you really are, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'm trying to truly find myself. Let me ask those of you who do pratice. Is this for real? I mean real as a tangible thing not just a oversimplified feeling.

Through The Looking Glass

Originally posted by w810i
I'm trying to truly find myself. Let me ask those of you who do pratice. Is this for real? I mean real as a tangible thing not just a oversimplified feeling.

When I find the answer to that question, I'll be sure to let you know.

Originally posted by w810i
I'm trying to truly find myself. Let me ask those of you who do pratice. Is this for real? I mean real as a tangible thing not just a oversimplified feeling.

tan·gi·ble (tăn'jə-bəl) pronunciation
adj.

1.
1. Discernible by the touch; palpable: a tangible roughness of the skin.
2. Possible to touch.
3. Possible to be treated as fact; real or concrete: tangible evidence.
2. Possible to understand or realize: the tangible benefits of the plan.
3. Law. That can be valued monetarily: tangible property.

n.

1. Something palpable or concrete.
2. tangibles Material assets.

[Late Latin tangibilis, from Latin tangere, to touch.]


Physically tangible no - but yes it is real. Probably 2. Possible to understand or realize: the tangible benefits of the plan. can describe it best.




[edit on 8-3-2007 by mulberryblueshimmer]

Originally posted by w810i
I'm trying to truly find myself. Let me ask those of you who do pratice. Is this for real? I mean real as a tangible thing not just a oversimplified feeling.

Very difficult question. Can you touch it? No. Can you see tangible evidence after study, practice and effort? Yes.

This is very real to me, but probably new age nonsense to others. It depends on your viewpoint, what you are trying to achieve and most importantly, why.

Magic(k) works for me. Not always and not always with the results I expected, but it does work.

Grey

hard to answer as what is real? how do you know that what you see as an apple i see.... you get the idea.

You have clearly been led to this point for a reason. Does wiccan work? yes i BELIEVE it does. thats why it has worked for me. The key word is belief.

The thing is you have to be using it for the right reasons, selflessness, helping others, or the planet and universe.

So just go with the flow.... wiccan attracts you for a reason... like me it will lead you down some unexpected paths. new ideas and concepts will suddenly leap at you.

My advice: join a pagan/wiccan forum. Be friendly, dont ask for love/self improvement spells etc as you will be labled a 'fluffy bunny' or a sabrina.
Announce yourself as an interested begginer and they will fall over themselves to help you. They can put you in touch with local covens and like minded people, there are regular moots all over UK/USA. where people get together have a drink some food atc. you might get to see your first invocation there.... the energy that creates is awesome.

or you may just want to be a solitary or hedge witch. in that case a book called ' A Witch Alone ' by Marion Green is an excellent (though a tad too fluffy for my taste) place to start and will give you a good basic knowledge.

Word of Warning: please learn how to protect yourself before attempting any sort of working, because on the astral/ether level you will attract a lot of attention to yourself. i am not going to tell you how, its really easy but must learn this for yourself as your mind/soul is expanding, to a psychic entity or human you are shining like a beacon now.

Good luck, there are lots of starting points, you really need to follow your intuition and learn to trust it, thats your higher self talking to you.
there is only so much you can learn from forum postings, there are no shortcuts, you have to experience now. you will see results very quickly and i have a feeling you are going to do great things.

Not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but avoid people who have names like....

Silver Raven Wolf and similar names like that. Those people usually are full of bull.

Originally posted by Enyalius
Not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but avoid people who have names like....

Silver Raven Wolf and similar names like that. Those people usually are full of bull.

Oh yes .... to ride a silver broomstick.... unfortunately i read that... and got as far as ' on halloween(samhain) we like to celebrate by dressing the porch up with ribbons'.... ZZZzzzzzz

That one caters for the sabrinas alright. The thing i hate about that kind of stuff is that it never tells its target audience (teenage girls) about gateways etc. i am sick of clearing up after these people.

Originally posted by w810i
I had not figured on this becoming such a huge thread. Anyhow I guess desperation makes for a funny bedmate. More so I need to fix myself before I try any attempts at fixing the past.

I'm impressed with the maturity with which you're taking all this advice. As you may have garnered, it's not exactly common for someone to want something other than an instant spell to fix something, or some other perceived shortcut.

You are absolutely right about needing to know yourself first. Always, always, for the rest of your life, you need to examine yourself, what you believe in, and why. The day you stop is the day "blind faith" begins kicking in.

That said, you'll probably never fully know and fix yourself, and if you ever do, you're halfway to being a buddha. Lives are a lot like houses. Once you fix one thing, there's another that needs tending to, or some new part that has broken. But take heart in that, rejoice in it, because that's more or less what life is all about, and it can be rather fun and exciting if you take the right attitude about it.

Originally posted by w810i
I'm trying to truly find myself. Let me ask those of you who do pratice. Is this for real? I mean real as a tangible thing not just a oversimplified feeling.

Are you referring to Wicca or Magic?

Wicca is as real a religion as any other, if not as old, but it is not a tangible thing. You can have a library full of grimoires, a full altar set with an athame, bolline, pentacle, cup, wand, candles, and a cauldron, but that doesn't make it Wicca. It just means you have nice little altar set. Most older Wiccans I know don't even bother with the "toolbox" anymore.

Of course, you can say that about any religion, except possible Shinto, in which the animus is anchored pretty firmly to a specific thing, but that's a whole other ballgame. The main point of religion is faith. A lot of people think that means "blind faith" in whatever divine authority the religion says. Personally, I think truth religious faith means "faith in the tenants of that religion."

So is Wicca real? Read on it and decide for yourself if you believe in the tenants first. If you don't, then the answer is "no, not for you, keep searching". If you do believe in the ideas and tenants of the religion.

Magic, on the other hand, is, IMO, a very misunderstood force, much like gravity. If you're looking for the ability to sling fireballs and lightning bolts, you're probably better off moving on to other things. Magic doesn't work that way. However, from reading your thread, it looks like what you really want is something magic still isn't designed to deal with.

Originally posted by w810i
anyways now that I have woken up. The idea was to cast a spell in hopes of bringing back a time in my life that was happy that has been lost. I found a book that had a spell(s) in it for just such a thing.

If I may offer some very heartfelt advice on this: Don't.

Our past is what shapes who we are today, but it is not the only thing by far. Learn from your past, cherish the good parts, improve the bad parts, but don't make it the focus of your life. You can't walk backwards through life, or you're going to trip over something in the present and break your neck.

Lost loves are lost for a reason. They either serve as a bitter reminder not to make the same mistakes in the future, or they serve as a warm reminder that there are still good things in the world worth fighting for. Perhaps most important though, the past should never be a substitute for improving your present or future. Hence the term, don't rest on your laurels.

Magic, IMHO, is for making a difference in a situation that would otherwise not be possible mundanely, or be too difficult mundanely, and is worth the extreme risk of things going dreafully wrong.

For instance: bringing rain to a parched and desperate land, and even then, one needs to be aware of the consequences of the actions. For instance, if you can make it rain, do you know if you can make it stop? If not, do you know when it'll run out? Do you know where it's taking the moisture from? Are you aware of the disturbances in weather along the way as air and moisture are transferred? Are you aware of the accidents and injuries this unexpected rainfall will cause? How about the damage to the landscape if it gets out of hand, or floods? There's a usually a natural reason a place doesn't get rain, and overriding that natural course can have very unpleasant effects even for the well-prepared.

For this reason, I think of Magic as being more like a firearm. It is a tool. It has it's uses, for which it is very well designed. But it is not useful for most things, and often causes more problems than it solves. I certainly would not rank emotional stability or happiness among those uses of magic, though I would say they are often impacted by the repurcussions of its use.

thelibra you make a lot of points that I had not considered. Thank you

After reading this thread, my interest in wicca/magick/the occult in general has been peaked. But at the same time, I have some reservations.

All my life I have been scared away from these very topics (normally by Christians) with threats that I will "open doors that cannot be closed", etc.

So I would just like to ask for everyone's opinion...

Does following the teachings of wicca and/or practicing magic/magick/sorcery/voodoo/whatever you want to call it have any long-time negative implications?

Can it really drive you insane? Will it stir up demons and stuff? Will you start hearing tapping on the walls in the middle of the night and all kinds of freaky stuff?

It all seems to not be for the faint of heart. And well... I would have to classify myself as the faint of heart .

I don't mean deep and heavy stuff like invoking spirits and theurgy. I mean even basic stuff like just casting simple spells.

I guess obviously you can't always end up getting negative back, or all these people wouldn't still be following/using it.

And lastly, do you have to be wiccan to use spells and that sort of thing? Can you still use magic if you don't worship nature and all of that good stuff?

Sorry if I offended anyone with my ignorance in this post .

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Yarcofin]

Originally posted by Yarcofin

Does following the teachings of wicca and/or practicing magic/magick/sorcery/voodoo/whatever you want to call it have any long-time negative implications?

Wicca does not equal Magick, I personally know several Wiccans who don't do a lick of Magick.

Magick does have the potential for negative outcome. You could say it's like electricity, you use it every day without harm but if you do something stupid you will get zapped.

Can it really drive you insane? Will it stir up demons and stuff? Will you start hearing tapping on the walls in the middle of the night and all kinds of freaky stuff?

The most common problem encountered is the inflation of the ego. an example would be someone who thinks they know more that whoever is the head of their group and goes off to start a new group . (Normally they also do a lot of badmouthing their former group).

But to answer your questions directly Yep, all the above can happen. That's one of the reason Magick has been kept hidden, or uses "scary" terms... it keeps those who haven't had the training from screwing themselves up. In general the Magick practiced by Wiccans is pretty safe but you still need some sort of training to avoid bad outcomes.

The type of Magick that Enyalius, or I practice (Ceremonial Magick) or what The Parallelogram practices (Chaos Magick) there is more room to mess up.

And lastly, do you have to be wiccan to use spells and that sort of thing? Can you still use magic if you don't worship nature and all of that good stuff?

You don't have to be anything.

Originally posted by Cug

The type of Magick that Enyalius, or I practice (Ceremonial Magick) or what The Parallelogram practices (Chaos Magick) there is more room to mess up.

So I assume that "circles of protection", "banishing rituals", and so on are the first things you learn when you are studying such things? Kind of like putting on a seatbelt before you learn to drive for the first time, or taking a gun safety course?

Originally posted by Yarcofin
All my life I have been scared away from these very topics (normally by Christians) with threats that I will "open doors that cannot be closed", etc.

Does following the teachings of wicca and/or practicing magic/magick/sorcery/voodoo/whatever you want to call it have any long-time negative implications?

Can it really drive you insane? Will it stir up demons and stuff? Will you start hearing tapping on the walls in the middle of the night and all kinds of freaky stuff?[edit on 9-3-2007 by Yarcofin]

Having been an evangelical christian on spiritual 'steroids', I will say that the thing that should concern you more is the potential damages of modern evangelical christian theology. (again, I have walked the "Christian" path...so Im not blindly picking on a 'faith'. And to clarify, I have no problem with the Bible...but the 'modern' doctrine.)

Now that I have said that...the only doors you are opening and closing, it would seem, are the doors in your own Psyche.

It has been said that the study of Kabbalah can drive you mad.
I have studied it...some may call me mad - but seriously, it boils down to your psyche.

If you hold on tight to ideas, beliefs, etc...and are 'rigid'...the more potential you will have for your psyche to suffer damage when the 'crutch' falls out from under you.
(i.e. I have posted examples in my ATS blog and other places, about such 'rigid' mentalities, etc.

I think that Jesus, when he said, "Seek with all your heart", meant it.
Not in all your doctrinal safe box...

Things are a matter of perspective really...In the end, we ultimately are responsible for our own paths.

Again, the threat of insanity from studying the kabbalah, (as an example) may hold truth...but it has as much truth to it as the statement that evangelical christianity may need a warning label on it. Really, it depends on the individal psyche, and you have to be true to yourself.

I have read Aleister Crowleys works...I look at some of his writings from a perspective, and have no issue with it. Has it fried my brain? lol (Again, I know those of the faith are thinking that I have been greatly deceived.)

Hope this helps...again, be true to yourself...

peace

dAlen

[edit on 10-3-2007 by dAlen]

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Does following the teachings of wicca and/or practicing magic/magick/sorcery/voodoo/whatever you want to call it have any long-time negative implications?

Depends on what you do while practicing, you reap what you sow. If you're constantly trying to control the lives of other people then yes, what returns to you is negative. If you don't, what returns is positive. I'm not Wiccan anymore, more of a general Pagan as my path has changed over time, but the Wiccan Rede is still good advice regardless of what religion you follow. "And it harm none, do as you will."

Can it really drive you insane? Will it stir up demons and stuff? Will you start hearing tapping on the walls in the middle of the night and all kinds of freaky stuff?

Depends, are you planning on calling up some demons? Seriously though, when you open yourself up and start working with magic you're open to all forms of psychic energy both good and bad, but that's where the basics come in handy. (Meditation, wards, casting a circle, etc..)

I guess obviously you can't always end up getting negative back, or all these people wouldn't still be following/using it.

IMHO, the ones who continue to follow/use it for long periods of time are the ones who truly feel in their heart that they are following the path that's meant for them. I think they tend to think things through working any magic and are less likely to send out negative energy, and therefore receive less negative energy in return.

And lastly, do you have to be wiccan to use spells and that sort of thing? Can you still use magic if you don't worship nature and all of that good stuff?

I suppose it's possible, but I wouldn't recommend just deciding one day to do a spell without knowing exactly what it is you are doing, what you are trying to accomplish, and without making sure you understand the possible consequences. It's not something you should just walk into blindly and think it will work perfectly. It takes study and commitment.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
After reading this thread, my interest in wicca/magick/the occult in general has been peaked. But at the same time, I have some reservations.

Never lose that, but use it as a tool. Never accept anything blindly, or just because it's right for someone else. Now if someone offers to teach you, and if you accept, then out of respect you should be a good student, but never stop thinking for yourself. Ever.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
All my life I have been scared away from these very topics (normally by Christians) with threats that I will "open doors that cannot be closed", etc.

This is true, in two very distinct ways, but probably not the ones you were likely scared about.

The first "door" you can't close again, is related to Religion. It is the ability to think for yourself. As arrogant as it may sound, most Christian to Wiccan converts come from a very authoritarian congregation. You do what the minister says is right, you avoid what the minister says is wrong, your interpretation of the Bible is based off what the minister says it is, and while every congregation member may have their own private ideas about divinity, the "hive mind" is the final authority on what you will and will not do, with Hell as the consequence of not doing so (or at the very least, ostracization by the congregation).

Once you study a religion that encourages trying to figure things out on your own, it's really hard to go back to sitting where you're told, chanting what you're told, singing what you're told, and believing what you're told. I personally, really can't stand to attend church services because they all smack of cultism and fanatacism to me nowadays, compared to my own personal beliefs.

So, in essence, you do open a door here that cannot be closed again. And for some people, this is a real and valid concern. I have several Christian friends, and some of them absolutely do not want their beliefs challenged. They are extremely uncomfortable with even so much as debating the nature of God beyond the comfort zone of what their particular congregation preaches. And I try to respect that, and keep that boundary between us. It took a long time to learn that, though.

Anyway, that's the first door. It's metaphor, more than anything else.

The second door that cannot be closed is related to magic (as Cug mentions, the two are quite seperate). It is something real and intangible, and is very hard to describe except to say you gain a new "sense". Some people see auras, others smell different things, some hear bells and tones...my personal belief is that it's an attunement to some new input our bodies have not yet evolved a standardized way of processing. In any event, you become "aware" of certain things mundane people aren't. By the way, "mundane" isn't meant as an insult, it just means people who haven't any experience with real magic.

In general, the effects of this second door are most commonly felt when you're in the same room as someone else who has worked with magic. You could be in a crowded, noisy restaurant, and theres that one person, across the room, that you can't help locking eyes with. They're a lot more common than you would think. Usually this leads to either a conversation with a stranger, which can sometimes be fascinating, and other times can be just downright creepy. This was the biggest problem I personally had when trying to quit the scene. I'd be sitting in an IHOP, enjoying some scrambled eggs, and the person I keep locking eyes with has decided to slide into the booth to talk to me. I then know I've either got to be very rude, and tell them I'm out of the scene, play dumb, or resign myself to conversation with someone who will probably bring me only drama.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Does following the teachings of wicca and/or practicing magic/magick/sorcery/voodoo/whatever you want to call it have any long-time negative implications?

Yes. Though, like Cug said, these are all very different. Religion is different from Magic. The two are mutually exclusive. If you want to put it in other terms, think of religion as your tool kit, and magic as fire. You can "make fire" in any number of ways, with any number of tools. Most Wiccans I know operate under multiple religions.

In one of the COGs (Circle of the Goddess), there was an extremely devout Catholic woman, whose "Goddess" was Mary, and whose "God" was Jesus, and I'll be damned if her magic didn't operate just as good if not better than many people in the circle. Her methods were nothing more than "The Little Book of Prayer" (a Catholic recitation primer, to my knowledge), and candles.

Wicca is a religion that offers a way to use Magic, and allows for its use as a positive tool. It does not require or mandate the use of magic, nor is it by any means, the only way. I myself was a practicing Wiccan for years before I ever even considered magic or casting a spell. My personal belief was that people make happen what they want to happen, even subconsciously, and that they would rather credit it to a force outside of themselves than admit they'd made it happen, and that magic was nothing more than a label for this.

I was wrong, magic turned out to be quite real, but this does at least serve to illustrate that you can be Wiccan and not a practitioner of Magic, and vice versa.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Can it really drive you insane? Will it stir up demons and stuff? Will you start hearing tapping on the walls in the middle of the night and all kinds of freaky stuff?

Well... it can, but like the other two responders said, it's not generally because of Magic itself, but rather the ego (literally and metaphorically). If you have a weak ego, you will want to attribute everything to being outside of your control, and you will allow yourself to become the pawn of whatever controls you (human or not). If you're mentally fit and strong, then no, you're pretty much safe.

Likewise, if you're hungry for power, then you might suddenly start taking unhealthy actions, and gathering followers for any number of reasons. Or not. Regardless, almost always, the effect of Magic upon you is up to you.

That said, there are times when its effect upon you is outside of your own decisions. For instance, if someone were casting a spell that you ended up hit by the effects of (the aforementioned rain storm might, for instance, flood your house). In this instance, it wouldn't matter whether you had dealt with magic or not, you'd still be affected. If anything, knowing magic ahead of time might give you some additional defenses.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
It all seems to not be for the faint of heart. And well... I would have to classify myself as the faint of heart

.

Some people just don't want to leave their comfort zone, religiously, and that's perfectly fine. I'm the last person to convert anyone, and I'm not looking to teach. I only offer what my own experiences were along the way as advice, and try to answer questions.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
I guess obviously you can't always end up getting negative back, or all these people wouldn't still be following/using it.

Keep in mind, people "follow" Wicca, they "use" magic, but I get your drift. You're correct. Wicca is, for the most part, a very positive, healthy religion. If my child one day came up to me and said "Oi, Dadz, I'm Wiccan now. Wotcha?" I'd probably ask them why, to see if they were doing it because they believed or because they were just doing what was popular at the time with their friends, but I'd do that whether they said Wicca, Baptist, Buddhist, or whatever...

There's positives in almost every religion, even opposing ones. And there's a dark side to almost every religion as well. Wicca was one of many religions I found where the good outweighed the bad.

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Can you still use magic if you don't worship nature and all of that good stuff?

Of course. You can "make fire" without praying to a Zippo. I think, however, faith is often a very useful tool with which to make magic. But technically you could do magic as a Christian, an agnostic, an atheist, a Wiccan, or whatever.

However, having a very strong understanding of Nature will help you understand that, if you "make fire", some thing gets burnt in the process.


It sounds as if you are at one of those critical junctures in your life where you are begining to outgrow what you are religiously or spiritually comfortable with, but don't want to move into a bad place as a result of leaving. If I may offer you what I feel is probably the most important piece of advice I can give...

Write down everything you believe in. Make a list. Think hard about what you think "God" is, what happens when you die, what a soul is, if there's a soul, etc. Don't just copy down stuff out of the Bible or what your minister said, I mean really just sit down and, with no books, no one to ask, and no Google, write down what YOU believe.
It's okay to leave some questions with an "I don't know". In fact, this is critical to spiritual growth--the persuit of those unknowns. But try to answer as many as you can, as best you can...

...then, when you have your list, start researching what other religions believe, and see which ones match your own personal beliefs as closely as possible.

Then, take the ideas you gain from the religions you read about, consider them in regards to what you believe, and re-make your list. Then start looking again.

After a few years you will start becoming more and more comfortable with your spirituality, and when you finally are ready to join a particular religion, you'll know why you did, and why you claim a belief in it.