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Yahweh is a DEMON

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posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 12:47 AM
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I actually have read the four "gospels," in the "New Testament," and much of the Bible. I used to be a fundamentalist "Christian," before i realized i had been worshipping an evil demon.


To preface what i am about to say, I give everyone my word that NOBODY will be tortured eternally for not following Yahweh's evil laws.


Anyone who believes someone deserves ETERNAL TORTURE for not following the deranged mandates of Yahweh, such as burning people to death, are either extremely programmed and deluded, or evil themselves. I have just "scratched the surface," of the evil of Yahweh contained within the Bible, and if you desire, i can provide you with many more quotations to prove this.



If anyone believes that sacrificing animals or people, burning people to death, killing infants, or torturing people, is "righteous," they are either extremely deluded or insanely evil.



You're stating your opinions as facts. And, I have a problem with that since you've made many assumptions and no attempts to research or listen with an open mind.

-saint4God


I have certainly read the Bible with an "open mind," and even a receptive one, and i have come to many conclusions based on what i have read. It is you obviously who does not have an "open mind," and is programmed to the point of delusion.

Stating that Yahweh (considering he exists), is "a source or agent of evil, harm, distress, or ruin," is TRUTH, whether you choose to believe it or not. Read my original post where i provide quotations from the Bible where Yahweh commands his followers to, stone people, burn them to death, and even to massacre infants. He actually commands his followers, according to the Bible, to massacre an ENTIRE TOWN of people, including their completely innocent animals, if just one non-believer resides there.


Yahweh is MOST certainly a DEMON.




----


If anyone is actually interested in what i have to say, you should read two of my previous posts on this thread, where i make some valuable explanations and responses.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 3/7/2007 by DerekOneSeven17]




posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
I actually have read the four "gospels," in the "New Testament," and much of the Bible. I used to be a fundamentalist "Christian," before i realized i was worshipping an evil demon.


To preface what i am about to say, I give everyone my word that NOBODY will be tortured eternally for not following Yahweh's evil laws.


Ah, yes, as I have mentioned, I used to be an evangelical christian.
So you were once swirling in the midst of all things 'fundamental'?


Interesting, it seems that those that have been deeply involved with evangelical christianity - if they 'fall' from the faith...they literally fall. (meaning the whole Bible is useless...or, like one guy I know, he turns opposite and claims to be a 'satanist'.)

I look at what happened to me as a deepening of understanding of what the Bible teaches.
Im not anti Jesus/Paul, etc. In fact their teachings, in light of a lot of what I have studied, make even more sense. I tend to like the gnostic way of thought mixed with Judaic Kabbalah. (yes, the evil kabbalah, as the apologist for evangelical christianity will say...but, its there 'loss', my gain...at least I'm at peace.
)

Having said that...you mentioned their is no fire for eternity.
You bring up an interesting point.

Your right, an infinite creator would not put its creation into the fires of an eternal hell.
But we dont really know the nature of the soul, or if it exist...the way we believe it does. (I have written here at ATS and given reference before to this topic)...

If there is a hell...its a creation by 'overlords' of the galaxy for people who 'rebel'.

Point is, its not from the 'God'. - so I am in agreement with your statement.

The whole case of predestination is quite interesting when dealing with this.
Paul states that who are we to question if God throws a few pots in hell for 'fun' and others he makes 'holy'. I only bring this up to help make those still in their doctrinal thoughts, think a bit more about their 'belief'.

Neuron networks built up...they dont disappear overnight.
You change the way you think in a 'safe' environment, and even when you are busy trying to convert people...you will be pondering the truth to it all...changing ever so slowly - ever so slightly, but changing. Now thats if you seek with all your heart.

If you seek with all your fear, as most Christians do...you will have signs in your face with the truth, but ignore it...I know family members like this. I am certain of some of my family members that will die and they will die in their misery, stuck in a belief that did not work. Who am I to judge...the fruit of the attitude shows...

Yes there is hope for all...but some really want to find out, others are satisfied in giving their life to the 'shepherd'. Oh, shepherd, what path do you lead us down...can we be certain your not the wolf. And the sheep say, "we know his voice"...hmmm, same as those that follow the hypnotic music of the pied piper believe his voice to be that of the savior.


Peace

dAlen



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
To preface what i am about to say, I give everyone my word that NOBODY will be tortured eternally for not following Yahweh's evil laws.


Your word against who's? The one who spoke every atom you are made of into existence?



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
To preface what i am about to say, I give everyone my word that NOBODY will be tortured eternally for not following Yahweh's evil laws.


Your word against who's? The one who spoke every atom you are made of into existence?


Again, its interesting.
Evangelical Christianity hi-jacked Judaism...centuries old religion, and add new doctrine.

From my chassidic, orthodox, Judaic studies...hell does not exist.
If it does, its more like the Catholic teaching of purgatory...where its a purifying of the soul...interesting that evangelical Christianity tried to separate themselves and come up with a new doctrine...

Again, how is one saved? By works that anyone may boast? Christ was sent to die once for all...all are saved. "But wait, its for those who believe"..."for those who call upon his name"...yes, to what extent.
"Christ died once for all...period. all other arugments and I will swim with you in the pool of predestination, which most Christians are uncomfortable to get into, and I will leave you with a question still in your mind.


Well, I wont, but the "Word of 'God' will" when you seek with all your heart and not with all your mind in the places of fear and restraints by dogma.


Solomon said we go back to feed the earth worms..."oh wise words of solomon"...you would think he knows something.


Peace

dAlen

[edit on 7-3-2007 by dAlen]



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:24 AM
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Your word against who's? [that nobody is going to hell for not following Yahweh's evil laws] The one who spoke every atom you are made of into existence?



Yahweh might have created the evil matter that entraps my spirit, but he is NOT the true creator of my concioussness. As i said in my earlier response...

The material creation, Yahweh's "kingdom," is inherintly evil. By it's very inherint mechanisms, it forces all beings to decay, suffer and die.

You must recognize and understand the difference between the physical body and the concioussness, and realize them as seperate entities. The spirit, or concioussness, exists independently of the physical shell entrapment. The material universe, Yahweh, and all evil (including the Astral realm), is to be destroyed PERMANENTLY.


You ask me "my word against who's?" It is my word against a maniacal, sadist, slavery loving, baby slaughterer's.


There have been so many near-death experiences of people who have literally "died," and had been resussitated, and did NOT go to hell. They were not Christians, Jews etc, and thus sinners. People who die experience the Astral realm, another evil tool of Yahweh. Some may go to "hell," the lowest, most putrid realms of the Astral, but, i believe, they are not forced to go there by Yahweh. As long as you live a TRUELY moral life, you will not gravitate to the lower realms. The Astral is a world where you can control much by willfull desire.

If anyone is interested in learning more about the Astral, read this valuable piece by Amitakh Stanford , entitiled, "The Spirit World."
www.xeeatwelve.net...




---



As for the comments about orthodox Judaism, followers of the Talmud should believe in hell. A brief overview of the Talmud makes that evident. I believe there are even verses about casting sinners into boiling hot semen and excrement.



[edit on 3/7/2007 by DerekOneSeven17]



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
There have been so many near-death experiences of people who have literally "died," and had been resussitated, and did NOT go to hell. They were not Christians, Jews etc, and thus sinners.


As for Near-death, I have written about it in my ATS blog...

As for the last comment about talmud teaching hell, may I recommend, as I stated, checking out the chassidic, orthodox view of it: here you should find some audio clips if you search
-again they are all about oral torah...which is more than just talmud.
If you want to go the route of using talmud, not sure if your ready to 'dance' their 'dance'...you may not know...but its not all cut and dry when it comes to the interpretations. - but have fun


Also, to add in the jewish belief of reincarnation...check out rabbi haim vitals works...


You can find info about that in the pdf library of kosher torah

- also, the NT reference to reincarnation which becomes evident once you realize this was something taught. (Is john the baptist elijah? etc. Why even ask if they didnt believe in reincarnation...again, refer to rabbi Haim Vitals works and to the link above...you will need to search the pdf library.)

- also, where did catholics get purgatory? sounds like the purification of the soul process taught in chassidic circles...(link at top of page) And why did Christians drop it...the newest kid on the block is now the one who 'finally' understands it all? lol

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 7-3-2007 by dAlen]



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by dAlen
Again, its interesting.
Evangelical Christianity hi-jacked Judaism...centuries old religion, and add new doctrine.


No GOD himself did. After all he created it all, he can do as he pleases with it. He didn't hi-jack anything, he fulfilled it, well or is in the process of exactly that anyway.


Originally posted by dAlen
From my chassidic, orthodox, Judaic studies...hell does not exist.


It will be the home of many, despite anyone's studies.


Originally posted by dAlen
If it does, its more like the Catholic teaching of purgatory...


Based on who's word? The Great Whore's or the Creator's.


Originally posted by dAlen
Again, how is one saved? By works that anyone may boast? Christ was sent to die once for all...all are saved. "But wait, its for those who believe"..."for those who call upon his name"...yes, to what extent.


To the extent of knowing our guilt and repenting(changing) from our unbelief. If you don't have eyes enough to see your guilt, you don't have a need for a saviour, therefore how can you be saved? What do you need to be saved from?


Originally posted by dAlen
"Christ died once for all...period. all other arugments and I will swim with you in the pool of predestination, which most Christians are uncomfortable to get into, and I will leave you with a question still in your mind.



Yes that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. What about those who have treated his shed blood as an unholy thing? As if it wasn't sufficient. The field was bought, but many tares will be gathered and burned.


Originally posted by dAlen
Well, I wont, but the "Word of 'God' will" when you seek with all your heart and not with all your mind in the places of fear and restraints by dogma.


Solomon said we go back to feed the earth worms..."oh wise words of solomon"...you would think he knows something.



Yes we are all dirt. Seed grow in some dirt and die in other.

Didn't he also say that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom?

Without it you can't even begin.


1 Corinthians 3:17-23
18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
Yes that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. What about those who have treated his shed blood as an unholy thing? As if it wasn't sufficient. The field was bought, but many tares will be gathered and burned.


sorry, but I am as Paul said, "once you fall away, you will not come back"...this is actually a postive thing.
I know the arguments...care to read my ATS blog?

I was a missionary, I know apologetics in and out, I cant be convinced...and I know you cant either...


At least I have peace in my 'heathen' state or the way I believe in the bible now.

Peace

dAlen



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:54 AM
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I have done a great deal of research into the Talmud, and have conversed with an "ultra-orthodox," Jew, and they both tell me that there is indeed a hell for those who disobey Yahweh. This associate of mine goes to temple every day if he can and tells me that any Jews that don;t believe in eternal punishment for disobeying Yahweh are not real Jews.

According to their teachings, Jewish unbelievers suffer eternal torture, as do, i believe, goyim who do not keep the Noahide commandments.

Obviously, you can see how dispicably evil the very idea of this is.



[edit on 3/7/2007 by DerekOneSeven17]



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17
I have done a great deal of research into the Talmud, and have conversed with an "ultra-orthodox," Jew, and they both tell me that there is indeed a hell for those who disobey Yahweh. This associate of mine goes to temple every day if he can and tells me that any Jews that don;t believe in eternal punishment for disobeying Yahweh are not real Jews.

According to their teachings, Jewish unbelievers suffer eternal torture, [edit on 3/7/2007 by DerekOneSeven17]



You sound like the poster 'wise sheep'...convinced of something...and that is fine. (suppose its like me, I to am convinced, and we can dance in our circles all day.) lol

Chassidic orthodox jews not real jews....


wow...thats a FIRST...I doubt any orthodox would dare say that about the chassdic.
(By the way, I converse with orthodox rabbis daily in the virtual yeshiva...
)

You talk to your rabbi...Ill talk to mine.

Again, just to show, its all useless...you know what you know, and I know what I know.


Peace

dAlen

- you to can converse with a rabbi , but for evangelical christians dont think that they will have patience if your trying to convert them. They will send you to: here ...and no, its not hell.


[edit on 7-3-2007 by dAlen]



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by dAlen
sorry, but I am as Paul said, "once you fall away, you will not come back"...this is actually a postive thing.
I know the arguments...care to read my ATS blog?


Where did Paul state these exact words?


Originally posted by dAlen
I was a missionary....


How effective is a salesman that doesn't even have in his possession, nor access to what he is attempting to sell?

There will be pastors in hell. That likely stood behind the pulpit the Sunday prior to their soul being required of them. That never once knew GOD. There will be many that say LORD, LORD, that wont enter the kingdom of heaven.


Originally posted by dAlen
At least I have peace in my 'heathen' state or the way I believe in the bible now.


How do you believe in the Bible now? How did you believe in it "then"?

[edit on 7-3-2007 by WiseSheep]



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by WiseSheepHow effective is a salesman that doesn't even have in his possession, nor access to what he is attempting to sell?


I appreciate your zeal...but until you walk in my shoes, be careful with your assumptions.
Much like Paul who was a Pharisee of Pharisee - I was evangelical christian of evangelical christian.

Now the Pharisee, like you, would say, "how effective is a salesman that doesn't even have in his possession nor access to what he is attempting to sell?"

Yep, but did this detour Paul...of course not. Its his testimony, and they lived by their testimony. Point is, your lack of belief does not take away from my experience.


You will continue in your path...and as I mentioned before to you...you will hold steadfast...you are not open to knowing. (could be you are, and like my example, you will collect piece by piece until you are ready to accept the truth.) But at this time, a full debate would be futile...it would be like my discussion with the jehovah witness (read in my ATS blog), or a orthodox jew with Michael brown. (they both win and loose points.)

I will say one thing...and with this I will stop with this dialouge between us, as anything else...at this moment will not get us further.

And that is...go into your belief all you can.
You asked where Paul said what he did...read...read again.
(or were you being sarcastic in the responce...doesnt matter really)

Point is, read it, with an open heart (your bible) and keep searching...until you find bit by bit. To say there are contradictions will not help you...you must ask the questions yourself. One will lead to the same dogma...one will take you out of it.

Peace dude

dAlen



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
How do you believe in the Bible now? How did you believe in it "then"?

[edit on 7-3-2007 by WiseSheep]


I did want to add one last comment.

We are very careful, as humans, to protect ourselves.
i.e. when we have a ceratain belief system, we have systems set up to ensure that we can recover from any 'attack' on our faith from the outside.

again, to put it clearer...we have a neuron-network set up.
Its stuck in a ceratin path, until through suffering we change...or conscious choice.

when someone approaches you from the 'outside' the info will get filtered differently than if its from a 'safe' source from the inside.

This is the problem with any religious debates.

i have first hand witnessed this...having been a missionary, and seen its futility.

When talking with 'fellow' christians in a 'safe' mode, where they dont feel they are under pressure to change, or that their system will come crashing down (as in my example in my ATS blog with the Jehovah witness) then they can actually benefit and think for themselves about certain issues...that otherwise, they would not consider.

On the surface, what i say may come across to evangelicals as harsh...and i pretty much know the typical responce. To those I knew, it was different...again, I suppose its like what Christians try to do..."friendship evangelism"...one on one personal relationships. Cause walls are up otherwise. (now is that deceptive...well, Im not out to do any conversion of people...so for my part its not...cant speak for the technique used by those trying to 'save' people. but in the end, it is as it is.)

Peace

dAlen



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by DerekOneSeven17According to their teachings, Jewish unbelievers suffer eternal torture, as do, i believe, goyim who do not keep the Noahide commandments.


First please reference my post to you concerning 'fake jews'
Then reference a post somewhere above that which would answer this question.

Again, its not straight forward how the oral law is interpreted.

There is debate about the above statement.
In one 'oral teaching' debate, 'goyim' are free to be in idolatry...again, there is not a clear cut answer on this. If your friend says there is...then he is coming from his denominational point of view. - yes Rashi is the standard, so it seems, for commentary.

Do you read Rashi? Does your friend...(guess he would if hes ultra orthodox) anyway...

- of note: I will reference you again to talk to various rabbis for you to formulate your opinion...I by no means have the conclusive answer from Judaism...and neither do they. lol - but there is enough to get people asking those questions...especially for evangelical christians. - your term 'goyim' are you jewish?

peace

dAlen

[edit on 7-3-2007 by dAlen]



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 02:32 AM
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I personally subscribe to Zacharia Zitchins theories on the subject of the origins of man and religion



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by Frank Black
I personally subscribe to Zacharia Zitchins theories on the subject of the origins of man and religion


Hey, your a bit closer, it would seem, than those in organized religious thought.
my little 2cents on the matter.

Peace

dAlen



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by dAlen
Much like Paul who was a Pharisee of Pharisee - I was evangelical christian of evangelical christian.


He was changed by a little encounter he had though.


Originally posted by dAlen
Now the Pharisee, like you, would say, "how effective is a salesman that doesn't even have in his possession nor access to what he is attempting to sell?"


The point was, one can't fall when they've never risen, one can't rise if they've never fallen. There are many salesman who sell products they don't believe in, nor would put any trust in. For various reasons. One main reason is financial gain.


Originally posted by dAlen
(could be you are, and like my example, you will collect piece by piece until you are ready to accept the truth.)


I know the TRUTH and he has made me free.


Originally posted by dAlen
But at this time, a full debate would be futile.


Nothing futile about exposing lies.


Originally posted by dAlen
(or were you being sarcastic in the responce...doesnt matter really)


No I was dead serious. I wanted you to point out something that doesn't exist.


Originally posted by dAlen
Point is, read it, with an open heart (your bible) and keep searching.


It's brought me thus far. It'll take me to the house.


Originally posted by dAlen
To say there are contradictions will not help you.


No but proving there are might.


Originally posted by dAlen
..you must ask the questions yourself.


My teacher hasn't failed me yet, neither will he ever.


Originally posted by dAlen
Peace dude

dAlen


This reminds me. There will be one soon who will nearly destroy this place under the lie of "peace". His spirit is nearly everywhere, but only for a season.



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 02:53 AM
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Here is an excerpt from the Talmud about those who "have no portion in the world to come."


MISHNAH : ALL ISRAEL HAVE A PORTION IN THE WORLD TO COME, FOR IT IS WRITTEN, THY PEOPLE ARE ALL RIGHTEOUS; THEY SHALL INHERIT THE LAND FOR EVER, THE BRANCH OF MY PLANTING, THE WORK OF MY HANDS, THAT I MAY BE GLORIFIED.' BUT THE FOLLOWING HAVE NO PORTION THEREIN: HE WHO MAINTAINS THAT RESURRECTION IS NOT A BIBLICAL DOCTRINE, THE TORAH WAS NOT DIVINELY REVEALED, AND AN EPIKOROS. R. AKIBA ADDED: ONE WHO READS UNCANONICAL BOOKS. ALSO ONE WHO WHISPERS [A CHARM] OVER A WOUND AND SAYS, I WILL BRING NONE OF THESE DISEASES UPON THEE WHICH I BROUGHT UPON THE EGYPTIANS: FOR I AM THE LORD THAT HEALETH THEE.' ABBA SAUL SAYS: ALSO ONE WHO PRONOUNCES THE DIVINE NAME AS IT IS SPELT...

...GEMARA : And why such [severity]? — A Tanna taught: Since he denied the resurrection of the dead, therefore he shall not share in that resurrection, for in all the measures [of punishment or reward] taken by the Holy One, blessed be He, the Divine act befits the [human] deed.

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin : Folio 90a : CHAPTER XI
www.come-and-hear.com...


...The Talmud states that all Israel has a share in the Olam Ha-Ba ["the world to come"]. However, not all "shares" are equal. A particularly righteous person will have a greater share in the Olam Ha-Ba than the average person. In addition, a person can lose his share through wicked actions...

...Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom, but sometimes as She'ol or by other names... The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba...

...Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.

www.jewfaq.org...


Therefor, if somebody loses their portion of "the world to come," for being "wicked," (according to Judaism: not following Yahweh's evil laws) they are forced to be punished eternally in Sheol.

My ultra-orthodox associate has also told me that he believes that " eternally being away from the presence of god," is the punishment for non-belief and is eternal torture. And yes, he does consider himself more pious than Chassidim, he has actually explained this too me. I believe he considers himself a "Haredi," and a "Litvak."


Either way, as i had established before, it is maniacly evil to threaten eternal punishment on someone who doesn't follow Yahweh's unjust and evil laws.



[edit on 3/7/2007 by DerekOneSeven17]



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 02:55 AM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep


He's giving all a chance to come to repentance. When that time is up his wrath will be poured out on the earth.


We sold it all, he bought it back. We brought it on ourselves.


When is this supposed to be? People keep being born everyday so the chance to repent will never end meaning that life will go on forever without Gods judgement coming down on us.

Or am i missing something in your statement?



posted on Mar, 7 2007 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
When is this supposed to be? People keep being born everyday so the chance to repent will never end meaning that life will go on forever without Gods judgement coming down on us.

Or am i missing something in your statement?


No man knows the day or the hour, only the Father. Everyone will know the day when the day arrives.

The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon into blood, before the great day. They will say, "Peace and Security" and then will come sudden destruction.



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