Yahweh is a DEMON

Originally posted by dAlen
True, we dont read the Bible for what it says. Its a great book, that says a lot more than what we learned in Sunday school.

Peace

dAlen

Very true... Also, what one learned in Sunday school was tainted with the interpretation of the "teacher," as well.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
dAlen, yes, I am Christian in the sense that I do believe that Jesus Christ is ultimately the worlds' only hope. However,

, as you have probably noticed by most of my posts,I am not a conventional Christian in any sense of the word.

Thanks, that helps clarifies things a bit. Wasnt sure exactly where you were coming from.
(i.e. die hard, evangelical christian, as I used to be)

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by dAlen
Thanks, that helps clarifies things a bit. Wasnt sure exactly where you were coming from.
(i.e. die hard, evangelical christian, as I used to be)

Peace

dAlen

No...A die hard evangelical would claim that the god of the OT and NT were exactly the same... That's not me at all.. I am more of a "new age" Christian I suppose... Most would probably just say I am a "new ager"a nd leave it at that,.... However, since I do believe that Jesus Christ is the savior.. I tend to think that would indeed qualify me as being Christian..

[edit on 6-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I just like to say people who read the Old Testament do not really understand the whole story it seems, and why some things sound bad is due to not seeing the whole picture and remember the father was the judge then not Christ that's why he sounds different as he is bound by his own rules and judgements

How many people here who are shocked by the Old Testament know that some of the genocides and killings are about reducing a race of inhuman like Genesis 6 when God made the flood because mankind’s bloodline got corrupted through evil Angel activity? How many people understand that so far? Why does a loving God destroy with floods and put Fire on Sodom and Gomorrah?

It's because there is a greater good as to protect mankind and God's message to preserve it. The eventual covenant with Christ 2000 years after all these things happened is what that matters now because they were settled and his bloodline preserved because of the past rules to keep the word of God going.
The Tribal rules were just that, special assigned convents and rituals for these people to keep them in order what ever it took. On one side God was not so forgiving because man did not make the convents to him or had done, which opened new doors and rules with God when they were achieved including saving mankind spiritually. Now that God made man accomplish these things man that was killed could live onto a judgement day so all that was lost could be regained. These people that were killed were actually interfering with God’s plan and God could see that if they were not rid of then prophecy would not come about which is more important then man him self. It was more of a translation of what happened on earth that effect mans future and heavenly out come so some terrible things had to happen even if people today don’t fully understand why. Remember Moses ordered killings because the people or other tribes were not human and maybe the ones that did not get killed off are just that today inhuman mixed serpent Angel races that surround Israel as it once did then. This might sound racist to some if you point out particular groups but I won’t mention it.

Anyway hope it helps and remember the baby killing genocides were something that had to happen then as it shaped the course of history and the other tribal destruction was to keep man moving along with God and purifying the blood line till Christ was born so that his sacrifice could take God's curse away on mankind so that he could reach a higher heavenly goal and live again. Was it all worth it? Yes even if it meant clearing the gene pool because the eventual outcome meant man could be resurrected too.

And now you have to decide if the stories of these rituals and tribal rules and wars were true. Maybe they are myth so they never happened so you cannot blame anyone and say its just violent scripture that does not apply today and nor did everything apply 2200 years ago either let alone now. Or you can say its real and so is the rest of the Bible in that case and accept that maybe something’s had reason to bring about the greater good.




[edit on 6-3-2007 by The time lord]

All religions are merely the creations of man and thus the characteristics of almost all of the thousands of "gods" thought up by man in the hundreds of religions are always doomed to share the human traits of love, anger, pride etc.

Its simply ridiculous, in my opinion, to believe that some supreme being of perfection who can create life... would be so pety as to rob people of it and make them suffer for eternity, simply because they don't do what he supposedly likes (or believe in him in the first place)... when they have no real reason in the first place to believe he exists or no true method to know what he would truely want.

Humans will change or create supposed "truths" handed down to them from "god" to suit their own needs/thoughts/motives and we have seen this done in hundreds of religions which are used to control people... thus it would be quite risky and even irresponsible to trust the "god truths" handed down through the unpure medium of men and written in some book.

Thus until any alleged "god" starts talking to every single person in a real way (and none of this BS.. "o but as a christian i can feel the will of god blahblah".. no.. you just convince yourself of that based on your preconceived notions and own thoughts) I won't buy into the religion thing in any form. And this is coming from someone who was raised a christian (or rather forced into it like most people) for 20 years.

Originally posted by nybaseball44
Its simply ridiculous, in my opinion, to believe that some supreme being of perfection who can create life... would be so pety as to rob people of it and make them suffer for eternity,

nice summary...

unless God is a child 'indifferent' and 'learning' through its creation.

Or in otherwords...if God is all, then we are God...or parts thereof. (Paul - we are the body of Christ...Kabbalah...we are the body of Adam, etc.)

Our mass consciousness reflects where we are at...(in general...there are a few that go beyond the games...)

peace

dAlen

One of the thing that I have noticed about all religions, not just Christianity is that they attempt to humanize God...It seems to me that the supreme being is above and beyond any notions that we have of emotion whatsoever.. To say, "God hates," is, at least in my opinion, one of the vilest forms of blasphemy that a man can commit against God or the Holy Spirit.

[edit on 6-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

To me, there is no rectifying the god of the Old Testament with the God of the New Testament. There seem to be too many dissimilarities there. Those who try encounter some rather heady hills to climb.

I have said it time and time again. The only thing that is really reedemable from the OT is the Ten Commandments.... Now, the question therein lies.. where did the rest of the OT come from then?

But this would make God a liar, or inconsistent at best...from how the Bible currently reads.

Well, not really. If one is to believe, as I tend to, that the God of Jesus and the god of the OT are two different entities all together, then it doesn't make God a liar or inconsistent. Now does it?




[edit on 6-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Think of it this way-

God has the following qualities- Perfection, all loving, just, all knowing, all powerful. He created man with free will. He wants for man to be in communion with him, but due to man's sinful nature he can't be in the presence of the Lord without the blood of Christ covering his sin.

After man's fall, he was out of communion with God, and that's where God's justice came into play(i.e. the wages of sin is death).

In the OT, the only way for man to be atoned for was by blood sacrifice by the priests of a perfect example of an animal(-generally a Lamb). This was only a temporary solution, as even a perfect example of an animal wasn't enough to atone for the sin of man.

Because of God's love he saw a solution- send his only Son, who was the "perfect Lamb" whose blood would be sufficient to atone man's sin, as the alternative was eternity away from the presence of God, in torment.

This is how the God of the OT and NT can be reconciled. Without Christ's blood all men deserve to die, but because of Christ's love he died in our place, allowing us to come back into communion with God if we choose to be in communion with him.

Originally posted by dAlen
(i.e. die hard, evangelical christian, as I used to be)

Then you were not die hard. Unless of course you're claiming you are dead. We'd have to start a new thread to talk about that more as I know I've not spoken to anyone dead as of yet.

I'd still like someone to address my questions on the previous page if able.

[edit on 6-3-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by The time lord
...Why does a loving God destroy with floods and put Fire on Sodom and Gomorrah?
...
It's because there is a greater good as to protect mankind and God's message to preserve it.

So you are telling us 'If you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break a few eggs'. Doesn't float with me, but it sheds some light on how some folks rationale the dark stuff in the OT. Appreciate your effort there.

you're making the claim about God being "evil" by how many people He killed, answer this question. How many did He make?

Then, how many people have we killed? And how many did we make?

Originally posted by BlueRaja
Think of it this way-

God has the following qualities- Perfection, all loving, just, all knowing, all powerful. He created man with free will. He wants for man to be in communion with him, but due to man's sinful nature he can't be in the presence of the Lord without the blood of Christ covering his sin.

After man's fall, he was out of communion with God, and that's where God's justice came into play(i.e. the wages of sin is death).

Here is the 'jewish voice' on atonement what better place to start...it was their religion first.

caveat: the above link does not necessarily reflect my view...but is meant to make evangelical christians look deeper into that which they profess

- to add, more from my perspective...
the God of the universe...creator of all...needs justice?
The all knowing, etc., etc. (yes, free-will...oh, but there is predestination which is held by respected evangelical Chritians...as it makes sense and is basically the only conclusion after reading Pauls writings.)

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 6-3-2007 by dAlen]

It seems to me that with the evidence of the Bible’s true meanings being eroded and not taught in the first place that the interest in people has gone downwards. This creates the next generation of people who put eventual bans of the further teaching of the scriptures in schools and public places. It has become so politically incorrect to say Jesus or stand up for Christianity that it’s easy to knock the cross off the wall.

There is this imposed cover up of the Bible these days and has been by not saying the truth for what it was and how important it is even today as nations are built around what the Bible teaches and History. This dummying down of the Bible has only been replaces by other religions and pagan teachings everything but the Bible it seems, no not all places but enough to make news articles about.

I smell the sign of a battle between the final war of heaven as predicted it will come to a point where any Christians left will be persecuted and maybe these enforcers are not so human and fully know well who’s side they take.

Saint4God, I think you are entirely missing the point of the thread... It's a discussion of the dissimilarities, or at least the apparent dissimilarities, between the God that Jesus spoke of and the god of the Old Testatment.. I think you are viewing this as an attack against God almighty but it's not... It's really about trying to understand... Trying to look beyond what we, at least in many of our opinions, have been forced fed all of our lives. You see?



[edit on 6-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

double post (its double posting when I edit recenlty...weird)

Peace

dAlen

- probably hitting the reply button... (sorry about that)

[edit on 6-3-2007 by dAlen]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Saint4God, I think you are entirely missing the point of the thread... It's a discussion of the dissimilarities, or at least the apparent dissimilarities, between the God that Jesus spoke of and the god of the Old Testatment.. I think you are viewing this as an attack against God almighty but it's not... It's really about trying to understand... Trying to look beyond what we, at least in many of our opinions, have been forced fed all of our lives. You see?



[edit on 6-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I just like to say people who read the Old Testament do not really understand the whole story it seems, and why some things sound bad is due to not seeing the whole picture and remember the father was the judge then not Christ that's why he sounds different as he is bound by his own rules and judgements.


Hope this kind of helps put the answer to this where people go wrong.
The old Testament was a one to one with the Father and the Jewish bloodline until the father made his human son which broke his contraints and laws that God him self was bound by.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
It's really about trying to understand... Trying to look beyond what we, at least in many of our opinions, have been forced fed all of our lives. You see?

I disagree that this thread is about trying to understand. The thread title makes no question, the initial post only makes accusation, there are no questions. If the "seeker" truly wanted answers, there would be at least some question or attempt to understand. This is not the case. This is a "chorus thread" for those who want to sing along the same tune. So instead, I've asked questions. Instead, I'm asking others to think through their modes of thoughts. Anyone care to answer or objectively think through their claims?

Their are a few who have taken up the challenge to address the concerns of the original poster. We can see how "progressive" in consideration these ideas were given.

[edit on 6-3-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by The time lord
I just like to say people who read the Old Testament do not really understand the whole story it seems, and why some things sound bad is due to not seeing the whole picture and remember the father was the judge then not Christ that's why he sounds different as he is bound by his own rules and judgements.


Hope this kind of helps put the answer to this where people go wrong.
The old Testament was a one to one with the Father and the Jewish bloodline until the father made his human son which broke his contraints and laws that God him self was bound by.

It may be interesting for people (evangelical christians) to take the Jewish perspective on this issue.
What are they saying? It was their religion for 1000s of years...

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by The time lord

Hope this kind of helps put the answer to this where people go wrong.
The old Testament was a one to one with the Father and the Jewish bloodline until the father made his human son which broke his contraints and laws that God him self was bound by.

Time Lord, that may very well be a fact.. I don't know to be honest.. However, it's a hard sell to someone who is, perhaps, already gotten their minds made up that God is not capable of being violent, et cetera..

For example, let me explain it to you this way...

The only God I have ever known is a loving, compassionate, forgiving God... When I read the OT, it has no familiarity to me. Therefore, I tend to deduct that they must be speaking of some different entitiy entirely than the one I know as God..



[edit on 6-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by The time lord
I smell the sign of a battle between the final war of heaven as predicted it will come to a point where any Christians left will be persecuted and maybe these enforcers are not so human and fully know well who’s side they take.

I remember when I worked in 'ministry' that I thought that 'organized religion' would be the one to persecute the 'true' christians. (The ones that are watching out for the anti christ will be the ones doing his deeds, in other words. i.e. - kingdom on earth...which Jesus was not about - look at Judas and his disappointment that Jesus didnt overthrow the romans...yet today, "christians" are involved in pushing their agenda through politics, etc.)

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 6-3-2007 by dAlen]