Wow,

I had never really researched blackwater until now, and somehow missed their katrina involvement. After reading what has been posted I think it's fairly safe to say I have been grossly misled about the organization by people I thought I could trust. Such is life though I guess, and now instead of their new apc being cool it is scary. God only knows when they'll get an excuse to try it out on domestic soil.

This is a horrible design. Look how poorly shielded the tires are. Hit the vehicle virtually anywhere with an RPG and you've got a mobility kill, at least. Hell, you've probably just killed everyone in the vehicle!

lol uber not even close... First off all combat vehicles these days can drive on their rims in an emergency... and most have unbelievably well armored tires. second the entire vehicle chassis is diamond shaped, even modern dual charge rpg warheads would have serious difficulty breaching it on the first shot. The geometry of the armor plates effectivelly doubles their capabillity to protect.

Originally posted by roguetechie
lol uber not even close... First off all combat vehicles these days can drive on their rims in an emergency... and most have unbelievably well armored tires. second the entire vehicle chassis is diamond shaped, even modern dual charge rpg warheads would have serious difficulty breaching it on the first shot. The geometry of the armor plates effectivelly doubles their capabillity to protect.

You are so full of it man... You have no I dea what a RPG can do to a vehichle....Do you? There are no designs to protect you from an incoming missle or foriegn object.
If there were, do you think that the boy's over seas would be dying from IED?
Blackwater is an elite group, but they are no place close to touching the "Physical" technologies of the US G's.

I agree with you, there are so many techno's out there at this point and time, there is no way to be certain of any scenario that involves a weapon ....or a WIFE.. "That is if you are married and all..."

Good post, couldn't agree with you more...

U2U me anytime for the conversation of using it as such...

Put an RPG into the windshield (it's only rated to stop a 7.62 NATO round) and it's toast.

Deform one of the rims with an RPG or IED and it'll be hard as hell to get up to a good speed...

Use angled, shaped charges that'll be angled to match the angles of the underbelly...

This thing is a fracking joke to anyone who wants to seriously kill its occupants.

I wonder if the electronics are EMP shielded?

This vehicle may be able to withstand a hit by an IED but the speed has got to take a huge hit. Armored Humvees have a max speed of about 55-60 MPH and those are if they are new. Any idea how fast these can get?

EFP's will penetrate the armor on an Abrams tank. Its pretty hard to defeat an EFP, which is why there are IED detection teams running most of the roads.

The shaped armor is designed to deflect fragments, and will take a considerable hit with conventional explosives. This model is just a prototype anyway. Most Grizzlies running the roads have no passenger windows and the hulls are shaped differently.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
these guys/gals are over in Iraq and Afghanistan risking their lives because they believe in their cause. If you didn't believe in what you were doing would $100,000-150,000 be enough incentive for you to get maimed or killed?

I agree SOME believe in the cause. Others are there for the love of money and some even because they enjoy it.

RPGs will punch through just about any vehicle of this size and weight. That's what they're designed to do. By up-armouring such a vehicle you would sacrifice speed, limits of observation and manoueverability, which are this type of vehicles main defence. Short of a full blown APC there is little protection against a shaped charge warhead.

The answer is simple - an RPG cage. Cheap, simple to apply and light. They work well, simple as that. The warhead is detonated against the cage a couple of feet from the main armour, removing the shaped charge threat. This just leaves the fragmentation effect which the armour should easily defeat. British vehicles have been using them in one shape or form for nearly 50 years with excellent results.

At the end of the day this vehicle is not designed to offer protection against RPGs, it is designed to protect against small arms fire.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
I'd wager that the majority would have issues with shooting a fellow American merely for money.

And that is probably so but have or would that majority have joined the US army? Isn't the most obvious way to identify someone who 'volunteers' for such activities the fact that they get paid?

If by destroy corporate property you mean an armed attack(which is what they're hired to protect against over there), then I'd agree, but not for vandalism or dissenting opinion.

So why can't the corporations hire their own to protect their property? Since when should the US ( insert whatever nationality) taxpayer pay a additional tax to safeguard the ample property and assets of corporations?

You have to look at the context of their statements about defending corporate property. If I was working as a contractor overseas, and my job was to protect site A, and there were folks trying to attack it, I wouldn't have qualms about shooting them either.

Because we all know that property has far more value than human life whatever the reasons for the attack. Why should i respect those who would protect stolen property from the ire of their former owners?

That's a far cry from ever entertaining the notion of conspiring against fellow Americans for a 2-3X military pay raise.

Why is that? Isn't the history of modern humankind ( the last few thousand years at least) proof enough that loyalty and the sword arm can be bought to do the bidding of the creditor?

Originally posted by BlueRaja
A- Can you give examples of Blackwater or any other private security company conducting paramilitary ops on US soil?

So who do the majority of Us intelligence agencies work for if not for private owners and when have they ever stopped conducting themselves in whichever way both yields results and allows them to continue as before?

B- Can you explain how the folks that comprise these outfits(i.e. former military, law enforcement) who love their country would be interested in having any part in rounding up their countrymen(and examples showing that they exhibit any characteristics/tendencies indicating such).

Why do we presume that they love their country when they do not love it enough to leave the armed services when it involves itself in war crimes on foreign soil? Why should i expect anyone who will accept payment for such crimes to suddenly gain a consciousness when he is forced into situations where his life is now threatened by fellow countrymen he is no more familiar with than his previous victims?

these guys/gals are over in Iraq and Afghanistan risking their lives because they believe in their cause.

Some clearly are but they are certainly no majority as that would have allowed them to sabotage the illegal attacks on foreign countries far more effectively. If they believed in a cause they would have refused to take part in such wars and instead insisted that they be sent home so as to best defend their fellow countrymen when they are in fact attacked.

If you didn't believe in what you were doing would $100,000-150,000 be enough incentive for you to get maimed or killed?

Absolutely! Few Americans ( less than 5% if i remember correctly) earn that type of income and if such rewards were available it would probably be a relatively simple matter to raise sufficient troops to not only conquer a large proportion of the known world but to occupy it for a damn long time at that.

Stellar