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Who owns the U.S Debt

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posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by ka0s69

Originally posted by FreiMaurer
I've never seen a collection of a more idiotic bunch, the Rothschilds has nothing to do with US financing, and the banks of the US are not owned by "foreign nationals" especially so far as "foreign nations".

All the charter means is your Bank to start has to meet a lot of criteria ensuring that it will survive and not lose people's deposits and is a product of the Depression. It is not a certificate of any type of ownership, it's a license.

The debt is not some mysterious thing where the creditor owns the United States.

Debt is merely accured by a debtor from whatever creditor there is, if that creditor happens to be Siam or something, it still doesn't matter, anymore than a bank can tell you what to do with your home even though it is mortgaged...let alone what you do in the home.

Imagine if a Bank told you you couldn't have intercourse or fun with your hand in your own home...simply because they gave you the loan to buy it...

Things don't work that way in this world.


Your opinoins are yours and ours are ours, this in no way gives u the right to label us as idiotic. Your asumption that your information is more factual and more solid than ours is how would you say Idi....

I can hardly see how you would know the be all and end all of this discussion so please dont embarrass urself any further. But if in fact you do know everything please feel free to enlighten us all without ridiculing us for thinking something different.


You're idiotic because you don't know what you're talking about, you're as dumb as a person who claims the earth is flat. That's the definition of idiocy - unable to critically interpret observations. Unable to learn.

You're being idiotic, meaning you aren't neccesarily stupid, just not actually trying to think.

You are biased because you are paranoid or some crap.

If you want a debate on this matter don't go spouting your interpretations. Establish observations first - you did NOT do this. You merely said "well...those guys are full of honkey, everyone knows the world is owned by the Rothchilds right?" And a bunch of guppies bit hook, line and sinker.

Got a paper trail?

Understand how the US makes money?

Understand how the Gold Standard works and its impacts on economy? If so...then we have a debate. But it won't be about secret rulers of the US debt because there are none.

[edit on 5-3-2007 by FreiMaurer]




posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by FreiMaurer
I've never seen a collection of a more idiotic bunch ...


People often react badly to knowledge that they are not yet ready to receive.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 01:54 AM
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So what have you to say about this post FreiMaurer?

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by FreiMaurer
I've never seen a collection of a more idiotic bunch ...


People often react badly to knowledge that they are not yet ready to receive.



It took a bitch-slap to get people to wake up during the civil rights movement...people are never "ready to receive" you simply have to bitch slap some fools.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by FreiMaurer
Debt is merely accured by a debtor from whatever creditor there is, if that creditor happens to be Siam or something, it still doesn't matter, anymore than a bank can tell you what to do with your home even though it is mortgaged...let alone what you do in the home.

Imagine if a Bank told you you couldn't have intercourse or fun with your hand in your own home...simply because they gave you the loan to buy it...


I hope you don't think you will actually own the home you just bought after you fully pay off the mortgage. What do you think would happen if you didn't pay property taxes? They would take away your fully paid off house.

Just hope things don't get that far. Every time I turn around a freedom is being taken away from us in one form or another. How long will it take before they have total control? I don't know. Look up George Orwell 1984 for the type of control they would love to have.

Think it is only physical control they are after? Think about "hate crime" bills some want to pass. Hate crime is basically thought crime.

Just feel lucky you are not restricted from traveling in between states or forced to stay and live in a certain state or area. That has been done before time and time again in history, and can be done here in the US as more control and money is being taken away from us in the name of safety.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
So what have you to say about this post FreiMaurer?

www.abovetopsecret.com...


This thread specifically ignores some REALITIES I mentioned elsewhere.

First off what is this about "when all the gold is sold"? You mean the over 8,000 tonnes of it? Germany is the next largest possessor of Gold weighing in at 3,000 tonnes.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by FreiMaurer
It took a bitch-slap to get people to wake up during the civil rights movement...people are never "ready to receive" you simply have to bitch slap some fools.



To get what people to wake up to what, specifically?




[edit on 5-3-2007 by Tamahu]



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by ka0s69
Thanx sweft, very informative without being rude.

Does the fact that the new oil burse in the middle east being traded in Euros instead of American dollars have anything to do with this??
Surely this would have a huge affect on the american dollar... Everyone buying oil in the american dollar would mean the US could set interest rates on Amercan dollars and make a killing.. or at least help balance the books.. Maybe this is the true reason for the increased military presence in the middle east.


Dear ka0s69, I wish I could tell you that the presence in the Middle East is about the oil but in reality, it's only a portion of it. There is enough oil in ALaska alone to fuel the world, so the reason they want the control over oil in the Middle-east has something more to do with fixing the price of oil and ensuring that it remains a monopoly or cartel with no competition.

But if Russia, Iran and other nations were to start selling oil for Euro's then that would certainly impact the US dollar negatively. The USA is now being used as the engine to carry out the globalists plans, so they would want to keep the US dollar as strong as possible and that means preventing this from occurring. However, buying too deeply into this idea is similar to accepting the idea that the United Nations opposes the Neo-Con Republicans. They have some differences but in reality, they are in league together.

The Euro itself is a mish-mash of many different currencies and is backed by about 13% Gold. The same criminals who run the cartel Central Bank in England and also the banks in the European nations and also the FED cartel in America are moving lock-in-step, to keep other nations off of any gold standard currency and also to have control over their oil.

So if America's dollar collapses it would also lose it's status as a world reserve currency and the criminals want to finish the job first, before jumping ship and taking off with gold in their personal possesion. In all cases, the American people are being setup to take the losses.

Sweft



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Originally posted by FreiMaurer
Debt is merely accured by a debtor from whatever creditor there is, if that creditor happens to be Siam or something, it still doesn't matter, anymore than a bank can tell you what to do with your home even though it is mortgaged...let alone what you do in the home.

Imagine if a Bank told you you couldn't have intercourse or fun with your hand in your own home...simply because they gave you the loan to buy it...


I hope you don't think you will actually own the home you just bought after you fully pay off the mortgage. What do you think would happen if you didn't pay property taxes? They would take away your fully paid off house.

Just hope things don't get that far. Every time I turn around a freedom is being taken away from us in one form or another. How long will it take before they have total control? I don't know. Look up George Orwell 1984 for the type of control they would love to have.

Think it is only physical control they are after? Think about "hate crime" bills some want to pass. Hate crime is basically thought crime.

Just feel lucky you are not restricted from traveling in between states or forced to stay and live in a certain state or area. That has been done before time and time again in history, and can be done here in the US as more control and money is being taken away from us in the name of safety.


1984 was George Orwell's undoing, he wrote about it, "My intent was not to make others deny reality and question history".

Taxes are not deeds to ownership, nor is a loan.

You see, when you mortgage a house - YOU OWN IT. You make money off the property value, you can rent it to others, etc.

Because the Bank gives you the money to buy the house and you pay the bank back the money - they repossess the house as understood collateral.

It's all in the contract of your financing.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:04 AM
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Sweft or whatever your name is, the US consumes about 80 million barrels of oil a day, there is only about 4-6 billion barrels of oil in unproven reserves in Alaska...

You do the math.

And Russia would never put their oil on a Euro...it's either Dollar or Rubles for them.

We're in the middle east because of two things, three actually.

1) Executive Agreements with and powerful lobbying by Israel.

2) Executive Agreements with and powerful lobbying by Saudi Arabia.

3) US oil interests.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by FreiMaurer
Sweft or whatever your name is, the US consumes about 80 million barrels of oil a day, there is only about 4-6 billion barrels of oil in unproven reserves in Alaska...

You do the math.

And Russia would never put their oil on a Euro...it's either Dollar or Rubles for them.

We're in the middle east because of two things, three actually.

1) Executive Agreements with and powerful lobbying by Israel.

2) Executive Agreements with and powerful lobbying by Saudi Arabia.

3) US oil interests.


And Russia as as in India, as in the Middle Eastern nations, owns most of the world's mined Gold. The Rubles will be one of the strongest currencies in the world. I do not disagree with your 3 points but are those the only points and are you buying gold and silver to protect yourself from inflation?



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by FreiMaurer
The US has the STRONGEST economy in the world, meaning it'd take a CONSIDERABLE amount of damage to disrupt it.

Don't believe me?

9/11 happens in the middle of a recession, and not one America is starving in the streets because of it.


They lie.

They are just delaying the inevitable.

The government and the media are in collusion to decieve the people.

9/11 was an orchistrated event to move private capital into the real estate market and provide a diversion as the richest 1% continued to move thier manufacturing and service sector jobs out of America into China and India.

The stock market continues to thrive as the richest 1% continue to manufacture goods in China, while reducing thier overhead costs. However, they no longer have americans working for them, now they employ chinese and indians.

After 9/11 the interest rate was manipulated to move capital that was not directly controlled by the elite out of the stock market and into the real estate market. Once market saturation had been accomplished in real estate and prices had begun to escalate beyond reasonable levels the trap has been set.

And since the government has been truthful all these years they have been informing the public of thier plans to move american jobs overseas, and they have provided generous tax breaks for displaced middle-class workers and government funded re-education programs for the people.


We even have a health care and retirement based system that has replaced the redudant post wwII employer based model.


[edit on 5-3-2007 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by sweftl337

Originally posted by FreiMaurer
Sweft or whatever your name is, the US consumes about 80 million barrels of oil a day, there is only about 4-6 billion barrels of oil in unproven reserves in Alaska...

You do the math.

And Russia would never put their oil on a Euro...it's either Dollar or Rubles for them.

We're in the middle east because of two things, three actually.

1) Executive Agreements with and powerful lobbying by Israel.

2) Executive Agreements with and powerful lobbying by Saudi Arabia.

3) US oil interests.


And Russia as as in India, as in the Middle Eastern nations, owns most of the world's mined Gold. The Rubles will be one of the strongest currencies in the world. I do not disagree with your 3 points but are those the only points and are you buying gold and silver to protect yourself from inflation?


Um no - the people own most of the world's mined gold (it's in the form of ornamentation, jewelry, electronics etc.)

As for boullion, the US weighs in as the leading holder of Gold.

As for your last comment - Gold does not protect for "inflation". Gold is actually a weaker commodity than say, silver, or the REE's. Silver went from less than a dollar per ounce to more than $1,000 USD in the 80s. That beat Gold's spread of $200 to $1,800 by a long shot.

Stocks are the best way to beat inflation as strong companies always out performs the economy.

And - on topic.

The MSNBC article gave a reasonable and concise explanation of who owns US treasury bonds - that should be enough for this discussion....but somehow someone denied it?



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by FreiMaurer

Originally posted by ka0s69

Originally posted by FreiMaurer
I've never seen a collection of a more idiotic bunch, the Rothschilds has nothing to do with US financing, and the banks of the US are not owned by "foreign nationals" especially so far as "foreign nations".

All the charter means is your Bank to start has to meet a lot of criteria ensuring that it will survive and not lose people's deposits and is a product of the Depression. It is not a certificate of any type of ownership, it's a license.

The debt is not some mysterious thing where the creditor owns the United States.

Debt is merely accured by a debtor from whatever creditor there is, if that creditor happens to be Siam or something, it still doesn't matter, anymore than a bank can tell you what to do with your home even though it is mortgaged...let alone what you do in the home.

Imagine if a Bank told you you couldn't have intercourse or fun with your hand in your own home...simply because they gave you the loan to buy it...

Things don't work that way in this world.


Your opinoins are yours and ours are ours, this in no way gives u the right to label us as idiotic. Your asumption that your information is more factual and more solid than ours is how would you say Idi....

I can hardly see how you would know the be all and end all of this discussion so please dont embarrass urself any further. But if in fact you do know everything please feel free to enlighten us all without ridiculing us for thinking something different.


You're idiotic because you don't know what you're talking about, you're as dumb as a person who claims the earth is flat. That's the definition of idiocy - unable to critically interpret observations. Unable to learn.

You're being idiotic, meaning you aren't neccesarily stupid, just not actually trying to think.

You are biased because you are paranoid or some crap.

If you want a debate on this matter don't go spouting your interpretations. Establish observations first - you did NOT do this. You merely said "well...those guys are full of honkey, everyone knows the world is owned by the Rothchilds right?" And a bunch of guppies bit hook, line and sinker.

Got a paper trail?

Understand how the US makes money?

Understand how the Gold Standard works and its impacts on economy? If so...then we have a debate. But it won't be about secret rulers of the US debt because there are none.

[edit on 5-3-2007 by FreiMaurer]


Firstly the purpose of this thread was to learn about the current US debt and find out where and from who the money was borrowed from.

Secondly Idiocy means to show foolishness or stupitidy. In the current topic I am not adept so what better way to gain knowledge than to present the question to people more learned in the subject than myself.

Thirdly I breifly mentioned that I dont think all is as black and white as the media paints it to be. There is always different information out there which is why I like this site. I'm not paranoid at all.. I simply choose to believe in other information than you.

And lastly me gathering all sorts of information on a subject I want answers too is in no way "Idiotic" because I'm doing a great deal of thinking. My conclusions may be different to yours but thats sumthing out of your control. All you can do is offer your information.

So please dont be offended when I say thanx for your input you "idiot" Im the one doing the thinking... you're just spewing out knowledge you have already learned.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by FreiMaurer
The US has the STRONGEST economy in the world, meaning it'd take a CONSIDERABLE amount of damage to disrupt it.

Don't believe me?

9/11 happens in the middle of a recession, and not one America is starving in the streets because of it.


They lie.

They are just delaying the inevitable.

The government and the media are in collusion to decieve the people.

9/11 was an orchistrated event to move private capital into the real estate market and provide a diversion as the richest 1% continued to move thier manufacturing and service sector jobs out of America into China and India.

The stock market continues to thrive as the richest 1% continue to manufacture goods in China, while reducing thier overhead costs. However, they no longer have americans working for them, now they employ chinese and indians.

After 9/11 the interest rate was manipulated to move capital that was not directly controlled by the elite out of the stock market and into the real estate market. Once market saturation had been accomplished in real estate and prices had begun to escalate beyond reasonable levels the trap has been set.

And since the government has been truthful all these years they have been informing the public of thier plans to move american jobs overseas, and they have provided generous tax breaks for displaced middle-class workers and government funded re-education programs for the people.


[edit on 5-3-2007 by In nothing we trust]


Oh really, and I suppose you know this because you're an investor like me huh? Have you even bought a house to live in let alone invested in property? Know anything about the housing market? Know anything about the Stock Market?

What type of market are we in right now - do you think?

Really, I never saw so many hair-brained conspiracy theories jammed into one thread...how are the elite moving capital out of the country?

Have you ever heard of insider transactions? Don't you think investors would kind of noticed if all the major holders were moving their money out of US stocks?



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:25 AM
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Kaos, your thread clearly denies observation - if there's not a better example of the OPPOSITE of Scientific Method what is?



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by FreiMaurer
What type of market are we in right now - do you think?


Gold?



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by FreiMaurer
What type of market are we in right now - do you think?


Gold?


*Sigh* hardly.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:26 AM
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FreiMaurer, you ever heard of Bob Chapman? If you know where I'm coming from, and if your under 50 years old on Wall Street - You're still dumb unless you're one of them - no offense.

May be you should go and calculate something called M3? Do you know what that is, mr investor?

So throw away all your charts, waves and graphs, cause in a manipulated bull market you go long and you stay long in gold and silver.

...and you can take that to the bank or stick it in your pipe and smoke it, or whichever you may prefer. Do you not see where I'm coming from kiddo?

Btw, good luck on your other Fremasonry thread.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by FreiMaurer
Taxes are not deeds to ownership, nor is a loan.

You see, when you mortgage a house - YOU OWN IT. You make money off the property value, you can rent it to others, etc.

Because the Bank gives you the money to buy the house and you pay the bank back the money - they repossess the house as understood collateral.

It's all in the contract of your financing.


If you truely owned the home after the mortgage was paid off, then under no curminstance would you be able to have your home taken away from you.

Yet if you miss one too many property tax payments, they will take your house away from you. So a senior citizen could have had her home paid off for 20 years. Doesn't want to move. Gets stuck, because she is relying on SS payments, and they wern't enough to cover those taxes. Then the next thing she knows she is without a home and no where to go.

You said the house is understood collateral. Fine collateral for the loan. After the loan is paid off, why should it be collateral for anything? My computer isn't collateral, and neither is my printer. Nothing I out right own is collateral for anything.

Why should a house bought and paid for even be considered collateral to the county for property taxes? Because a person still pays property taxes after they pay off the mortage, that person truely doesn't own that house or property. This is also shown in county ordinances and zoning laws.

The ect does not apply because of zoning against my house. I could not start a flower shop in my garage because of zoning. I'm limited to what I can do with my own property, because I don't truely own it, because it can be taken away from me. And because I can be limited as to what I wish to do with the house and property I just bought.



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