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Canadians at War! (excellent video footage of Canadian Troops in Afghanistan)

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posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 06:42 PM
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For decades now, Canadian Forces have come to be viewed by the world as "Peace-keepers". This label has frequently influenced the publics' perception of the Canadian military involvement in Afghanistan. In some quarters, a public perception of Canadian Forces is that of a "joke" -- a toothless, ill-equipped force. Regardless of the politics involved. Without regard to whether or not Canada should be involved in the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan, it is important to take note of Canada.

Canada is no longer to be regarded merely as "peace-keepers" or the constabulary of the worlds' ethnic skirmishes. As this video shows, Canadian Forces are active participants in the "War on Terror".lLink to video of Canadian Forces troops in Afghanistan

[edit on 3/3/2007 by benevolent tyrant]




posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 07:45 AM
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But are they serving any real purpose? Opium production is at record levels and helping to fund the very people they are fighting against:


Poppy production was up 25%, the US said Opium production in Afghanistan reached record levels last year, the United States has said. The US State Department's annual report on narcotics also said the flourishing drugs trade was undermining the fight against the Taleban.


www.tehrantimes.com.../3/2007&Cat=4&Num=004

Looks more like a noble and valiant front to keep the CIA's blood money flowing.

brill



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 07:38 AM
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Of course the Canadian forces are doing "something" worthwhile. Aside from the CF active combat roles in clearing out the Taliban, Canadians have provided security to the regions that they are based.

Canadian Forces have been active in building schools (often re-building them after Taliban attacks) and small hospitals. The fact that the Taliban would actively attack and destroy such basic aspects of society such as schools and hospitals certainly points out the nature of the Taliban and their determination to maintain control of the Afghani people by trying to keep the population uneducated and dependent upon Talibani doctrine. Women, in particular, are a focus of Taliban efforts to maintain control through fear and subjugation under their particular brand of Islamic doctrine.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 08:13 AM
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But doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that the opium production is soaring? I know their mission is not to stem drug production but those same funds are backing the Taliban. To me if you want to hit them, hit them where it counts, money wise by knocking out the opium trade. What's interesting is that prior to 9/11 the Taliban had reduced the opium trade. Given the multi-national resources over there how is it possible that the drug trade can be flourishing then at this point. Aside from the PR of new schools and the like it seems like a wasted effort added to which there is supposed to be some type of spring offensive by the Taliban. Who's winning this war again


brill



posted on Mar, 8 2007 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by brill
But doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that the opium production is soaring? I know their mission is not to stem drug production but those same funds are backing the Taliban. To me if you want to hit them, hit them where it counts, money wise by knocking out the opium trade. What's interesting is that prior to 9/11 the Taliban had reduced the opium trade. Given the multi-national resources over there how is it possible that the drug trade can be flourishing then at this point. Aside from the PR of new schools and the like it seems like a wasted effort added to which there is supposed to be some type of spring offensive by the Taliban. Who's winning this war again


brill


To hit them where it hurts requires not only getting rid of the opium trade but to actually facilitate infrastructure building and development. Something the Canadians have been actively involved in like everyone else. But it needs to be tangible and effective so that the Afghani people can see it and think NATO are doing some good. Get the vast majority of Afghanis onboard and the Taliban will not be able to sustain itself.

Also another problem is that a NATO force will help a nearby village, perhaps offer generators or water pumps. Give the locals free healthcare and the occasional piece of aid such as food. But soon after they'll keave that particular and leave it ripe for the Taliban to infiltrate and gain a foothold within that community. They need to solidify their presence in certain areas in order to stem the Taliban influence and actually start making a real difference to all Afghanis. There's some good re-development work going on, just not enough.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by brill
But doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that the opium production is soaring? I know their mission is not to stem drug production but those same funds are backing the Taliban. To me if you want to hit them, hit them where it counts, money wise by knocking out the opium trade. What's interesting is that prior to 9/11 the Taliban had reduced the opium trade. Given the multi-national resources over there how is it possible that the drug trade can be flourishing then at this point. Aside from the PR of new schools and the like it seems like a wasted effort added to which there is supposed to be some type of spring offensive by the Taliban. Who's winning this war again


brill


Well, when youre trying to win "hearts and minds" in Afghanistan you wont be doing much of that when you cut out an already poor peoples main source of income. Its Afghanistans #1 export. What else are they gonna grow that will provide them with any income at all? If we cracked down, you would see Afghanistan turn into a #storm



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 11:59 AM
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Sorry I don't buy that. Are you saying its better to keep the opium and drug production rolling along for the sake of economics? The Taliban had stemmed the production of opium and the country still functioned, albeit with poverty struck regions. According to some other data, opium production accounts for anywhere from 33% to 12% of Afghanistan's GDP. That indicates to me that there are other resources available for Afghanistan to profit from. Added to the fact that the funds from the opium trade specifically fund the Taliban and perhaps even Al-Quaeda to me indicates a very serious undermining. Hey I'm all for new schools and roads I just think targeting the opium should be a higher priority.


Afghanistan may be possessing up to 36 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, 3.6 billion barrels of petroleum and up to 1,325 million barrels of natural gas liquids. This could mark the turning point in Afghanistan’s reconstruction efforts. Energy exports could generate the revenue that Afghan officials need to modernize the country’s infrastructure and expand economic opportunities for the beleaguered and fractious population.[19] Other reports suggest that the country has huge amounts of gold, copper, coal, iron ore and other rich minerals.



Opium production in Afghanistan has been a significant problem for the country since the downfall of the Taliban in 2001. The CIA estimates that one-third of Afghanistan's GDP comes from opium export. The Asian Development Bank states a lower figure: $2.5 billion, or about 12% of the GDP. At any rate, this is not only one of Kabul's most serious policy and law-enforcement challenges[1], but also one of the world's most serious problems.


src: en.wikipedia.org...

brill



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by brill
Sorry I don't buy that. Are you saying its better to keep the opium and drug production rolling along for the sake of economics? The Taliban had stemmed the production of opium and the country still functioned, albeit with poverty struck regions. According to some other data, opium production accounts for anywhere from 33% to 12% of Afghanistan's GDP. That indicates to me that there are other resources available for Afghanistan to profit from. Added to the fact that the funds from the opium trade specifically fund the Taliban and perhaps even Al-Quaeda to me indicates a very serious undermining. Hey I'm all for new schools and roads I just think targeting the opium should be a higher priority.

brill


How are they going to obtain the funds and means to develop and create profit from these resources without obtaining the funds to do so in the first place. I'm not saying its right, I'm simply saying at this point it may be a necessary evil to help get that fledgling country off its feet. If we take away the largest means for these people to obtain anything, how long can we expect cooperation so that those soldiers there can do their jobs with as little resistance as possible. You dont think if we went in and just torched those fields that the insurgency would grow? We just removed the most integral part of their economy currently, which would certainly piss alot of people off.



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by ludaChris
How are they going to obtain the funds and means to develop and create profit from these resources without obtaining the funds to do so in the first place. I'm not saying its right, I'm simply saying at this point it may be a necessary evil to help get that fledgling country off its feet. If we take away the largest means for these people to obtain anything, how long can we expect cooperation so that those soldiers there can do their jobs with as little resistance as possible. You dont think if we went in and just torched those fields that the insurgency would grow? We just removed the most integral part of their economy currently, which would certainly piss alot of people off.


But that's what I'm saying, opium is not their chief export, please see the stats from my previous post. I still stand by my thoughts that keeping drugs flowing is not productive no matter what the end result. Some livelihoods may be saved here but others will suffer from the drugs that are made available. Time to turn over a new leaf and eradicate the opium because if its not done now it won't be any easier down the road.

brill



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 02:16 PM
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I agree that getting rid of Afghanistan's opium fields would be a good idea. The allied incursion into Afghanistan to uproot the Taliban was a terrible mistake. The Taliban was highly effective in eliminating this evil product.

The solution, naturally, would be to withdraw all allied troops from Afghanistan. Let us allow the Taliban to return to Afghanistan. Allowing the Taliban to institute their draconian practices and the subjugation of women is a small price to pay to rid the world of heroin addiction.

If we are lucky, perhaps the Taliban's particular Muslim beliefs can spread throughout the world. That way we can perhaps also rid ourselves of the incredible social damage that not only heroin has caused but that of other drugs as well. Yep, a small price to pay..... no heroin, no marijuana or hashish, no coc aine or other drugs. Of course we should also eliminate alcohol. Just think of all the good that would do? In exchange we can all give up a few of our freedoms. So what if women are denied an equal standing in society. So what if women will not be permitted to obtain an education. It's wasted on them anyway, right?

Of course I am being quite facetious here. But I am trying to make a point. The point being is that of priorities. Until Afghanistan can be stabilized and brought under government control. Until the traditional war lords or khans can be brought to become answerable to the society in general, until the economy is developed fully, until alternative crops and industries can be introduced, I am afraid that the opium farms will continue.

It can't happen today. Security issues are of greater importance. However, in the future, anything might be possible.

One suggestion that I might also make about heroin addiction is the War on Drugs. By treating addiction as a disease and not a crime, through decriminalization and the free or inexpensive distribution of heroin, it might be possible to eliminate the profits from heroin and, thus, make opium farming a less desireable occupation.



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
For decades now, Canadian Forces have come to be viewed by the world as "Peace-keepers". This label has frequently influenced the publics' perception of the Canadian military involvement in Afghanistan. In some quarters, a public perception of Canadian Forces is that of a "joke"
[edit on 3/3/2007 by benevolent tyrant]


Speaking as an Englishman I have to say this.

Put a Canadian in a uniform and get him p@#$%d off enough, and you have one of the toughest soldiers on this planet, fullstop. They proved it in Two World Wars and Korea.

The problem the Candian military has, is it that they are funded by a peace loving country, who having learnt from experience decided to spend their money elsewhere.

Are they making a differance in Afghanistan? I'am not sure that was the point of this post. Please forgive me if I'am incorrect.



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
I agree that getting rid of Afghanistan's opium fields would be a good idea. The allied incursion into Afghanistan to uproot the Taliban was a terrible mistake. The Taliban was highly effective in eliminating this evil product.

The solution, naturally, would be to withdraw all allied troops from Afghanistan. Let us allow the Taliban to return to Afghanistan. Allowing the Taliban to institute their draconian practices and the subjugation of women is a small price to pay to rid the world of heroin addiction.

If we are lucky, perhaps the Taliban's particular Muslim beliefs can spread throughout the world. That way we can perhaps also rid ourselves of the incredible social damage that not only heroin has caused but that of other drugs as well. Yep, a small price to pay..... no heroin, no marijuana or hashish, no coc aine or other drugs. Of course we should also eliminate alcohol. Just think of all the good that would do? In exchange we can all give up a few of our freedoms. So what if women are denied an equal standing in society. So what if women will not be permitted to obtain an education. It's wasted on them anyway, right?

Of course I am being quite facetious here. But I am trying to make a point. The point being is that of priorities. Until Afghanistan can be stabilized and brought under government control. Until the traditional war lords or khans can be brought to become answerable to the society in general, until the economy is developed fully, until alternative crops and industries can be introduced, I am afraid that the opium farms will continue.

It can't happen today. Security issues are of greater importance. However, in the future, anything might be possible.

One suggestion that I might also make about heroin addiction is the War on Drugs. By treating addiction as a disease and not a crime, through decriminalization and the free or inexpensive distribution of heroin, it might be possible to eliminate the profits from heroin and, thus, make opium farming a less desireable occupation.


Your right it is about priorities, of which we see things at completely different angles. I don't agree with you at all but it is your opinion. Time will tell.

brill



posted on Mar, 10 2007 @ 05:54 PM
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Brill, I want to say that expression of "agreeing to disagree" was certainly what I would say typifies the Above Top Secret member from other [/i[. I applaud you. To make intelligent and civil comments to serious topics in an effort to conduct civil conversation is the first step to "denying ignorance". Thank you for your courtesy.

To continue; let me say that we really do not differ all that much in our desires for a peaceful world. The only area that we might different is the way that we each might go around to achieve those aims. In Afghanistan and, for that matter, Iraq all that I want is that there be peace. I want the Sunnis to get along with the Shia'. I want Iraq restored to a prosperous nation where everyone simply "gets along". I want the Middle East to 'settle down' and that amicable agreements be made between nations, peoples and cultres. I want to see the people of the region (frankly, this is applicable to the entire world) all come to mutually satisfactory agreements and resolutions surrounding all of the problems that face them. Heck! I want to simply shout out, "Can't we all just get along?"

I can't see that we differ on these issues. Can we?

As far as being in Afghanistan and Iraq, I have come to accept that right or wrong, the US can't leave unless the security of those nations is preserved. At this point we are responsible. Justified or not, through our presence we are culpible. At this point, too much blood has been shed. Politically, too much has been invested and the world's spotlight is upon us. And, ironically, as much as the people of those nations might not want us there, I am positive -- beyond doubt -- that our government does not want to be their either. Still, there is that matter of "saving face" -- the only instance wherein emotional responses can decide life and death at a national level. I accept that America won't leave until, well, they can.

That said, I would hope that the US can have the opportunity to restore or develop civic infrastructure (water, sewage, electricity, schools, hospitals, etc). I would hope that the US might have the opportunity to help eliminate the opium crops in Afghanistan through the development of alternate crops. It would be great if Afghanistan could develop a thriving society and economy for the genuine benefit of its' people. Security, however, has become the biggest stumbling block. Without security, the people of Afghanistan and Iraq cannot possibly develop their own government (much less any that might be considered puppet regimes).

Security, in my mind, entails dialoge, diplomacy and mutually satisfactory compromise. Hopefully, the insurgents, Taliban, the Shia', the Sunni and whoever else might want to 'join in the caravan', can simply sit down at a table and actually try to do something that might actually benefit someone other than the 'cause of the moment' or ideology of the day. But when no one is sitting down to talk, security means protecting civilian towns from attacks, protecting children attending schools and even trying to shield mosques from car bombs and suicidal fanatics. These are, in my mind, priorities.

As far as posting the video of Canadian Troopers in Afghanistan, I was trying to express my thanks to them for their obvious professionalism and their commitment to trying to make a difference in a country where no one seems to care whether the people suffer in the name of some philosophical or theological belief. Those troopers are in Afghanistan demonstrating a level of the professionalism and civility that has come to be associated with Canada by the rest of the world. I have seen other videos, primarily of American troops in combat, whooping and hollering in what could be perceived as bloodlust. At least this video of Canadians in action demonstrated soldiers performing their duties in a manner that certainly reflects well on the nation and society from which they came.

Incidentally, I am a proud American who happens to be similarly proud to live in Canada.



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