Geneticists show that The Irish are A Race Apart

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I think the OP jumped off the deep end.... A connection with the "irish" race and aliens? WTF honestly?

There is no "irish" race, there is a CELTIC (pronounced with a K at the begining for the anoying people use a soft C - drives me nuts - ) The Celtic race has nearly died out however, mixed with various other European races, mostly Norman and Anglo Saxon.

However, you are right to say that 40 million Americans + some more have ties to Ireland, but that would include people like me who have Irish blood in them, though mainly English I can classify my self as both.

The reason why you see this Y chromosome more in the west is because that is the population left before the great migrations back to Ireland over the past decade or so. How do you get issolated genetic patterns that form what one may consider "a race"? Inbreeding mostly. Not to sound crude for those immature, inbreeding has occured in every nation, it is actually natural, it is when a very small population breeds among eachother, not sister and brother, not even cousin and cousin, it can be 5th cousin and 8th cousin, it doesn't matter so long as you can trace ancestory back to the same point carrying a good deal of the same genetic material. Ireland is an island, not easily acecssable, not many people every really wanted to take it over and migrate there besides Normans, Vikings and the English. The Irish have been around at least 6,000 years, and most likely well before that, They have a race of their own for sure, no different then Scandinavians or Germans who look much different then Italians and Greeks. Way back when, people where issolated and lives in much smaller communities = smaller gene pools.

Now, in the modern era, Celtic race which harbors the Y chromosome that you speak of, is dilluted with many other European races, mostly Anglo Saxon of course, but you will still see the old genetics of the past within someone many generations no longer "pure" - mating with an Anglo Saxon does not destroy genes? .. Aside from that increasing the gene pool is typically a very very good thing to do, Anglo's are the same race as the Celts where just slightly different genetically, but mixing them is more healthy then not mixing. The culture survived this, which is the most important thing. Celtic culture has nothing what so ever to do with race, it depends on the person, have you ever been to a Celtic Festival? I go every year, it has nothing to do with race, but culture and that is what makes up Ireland.

Aliens?

WHAT?
*shakes head and rolls eyes*

LOL... I know it's astonishing and seems "unbelievable" doesn't it? Yet, if the UNITED STATES were fighting a TRUE "psychological war" I think you'd be absolutely astonished at how they might execute just such a campaign...

Did you happen to catch the RESEARCH at the beginning of the email? Seriously. It's WAY beyond "eyes rolling" when this leads you to families where twins boys are DEAD and are of Celtic descent and also are ABDUCTEES. THAT might make one reconsider an eye roll, no?

No anger. One Love.

SP

Originally posted by Southpaw11
It's WAY beyond "eyes rolling" when this leads you to families where twins boys are DEAD

Frantic HYPERBOLE and RHETORIC aside.....Support some of this. Provide us a SOURCE.

If you CAN'T....and simply respond with, call Sims, get his book.....I can only conclude you are shilling for him.

Originally posted by Southpaw11
45% of abductees are an Irish/Celtic/Native American

Can you demonstrate that? I think that this would be a sensible start, it seems to be the issue that most people are going 'whaaa?" over.

What does any of this have to do with Y chromosome marker for Haplogroup 1? How many of the abductess have that marker, or, at least, western gaeillic surnames?

there is a gradient of haplogroup 1 across Europe starting at almost zero in the Far East to almost 100 percent in the west of Ireland

Don't you think that its more likely that that means that there was a spread of people from ireland across europe, with more dilution as they get further and further from the centre of spreading?

Here Now
Very interesting info indeed. Some believe that Irelands population sprouted up from an evacuation of Atlantis.

This genetic evidence would contradict that. If they were spreading from a centre in the atlantic, then haplogroup 1 would have highest concentrations in places like spain, brittany, morrocco, etc. Even if it had a high concentration in Ireland, then the gradient of spreading wouldn't neatly tail off at turkey, it'd be high along the north european and mediteranean coast (including turkey), and low in the interior of the contient europe and lowering torwards subsaharan africa.

Here I found the same article on rense:

www.rense.com...

Bradley and his colleagues at Trinity College in Dublin examined the Y chromosomes of men with Gaelic surnames in the western-most province of Connaught, and found that 98.3 percent had a group of genes on the Y chromosome known as haplogroup 1. "When you look at Gaelic surnames they are different in frequency of Y chromosome types from non- Gaelic surnames," Bradley said...The researchers said there is a gradient of haplogroup 1 across Europe starting at almost zero in the Far East to almost 100 percent in the west of Ireland.

I don't know if its true, but quite an interesting article. I have had experiences with the paranormal and I am Irish descent (over 75%).

Who knows if its true, but I believe if you think you're better than anyone else its a falsehood. We are all one and looking down on people is no better than what the Nazis did!

bs

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Replaced 'code' with 'ex' tags

[edit on 3/3/07 by masqua]

Here Now
Very interesting info indeed. Some believe that Irelands population sprouted up from an evacuation of Atlantis.

This genetic evidence would contradict that. If they were spreading from a centre in the atlantic, then haplogroup 1 would have highest concentrations in places like spain, brittany, morrocco, etc. Even if it had a high concentration in Ireland, then the gradient of spreading wouldn't neatly tail off at turkey, it'd be high along the north european and mediteranean coast (including turkey), and low in the interior of the contient europe and lowering torwards subsaharan africa.

Having only investigated this a little. Some believed the island itself was part of the Atlantis. Hence findings at NewGrange, they found ancient building(s) dating back further then the pyramids.

One should also consider haplogroup X and in this case, we find in the immediate post-atlantan period a settling of those types in area's along the Atlantic coastline on both sides of the pond.
According to Dr. Rudolph Steiner, who is the founder of the Waldorf Schools, a small group of humans living in what now is Ireland, were the first humans to attain an advanced form of egohood "characterized by a disposition to logical deliberation and discriminating judgement." From there they migrated and colonized from West to East where one group also went south and colonized in India. Here the first rudiments toward thought formation were established. Deductive thought then passed into the ancient Persian civilization, the Egyptians and then the Greeks raised it to new heights and from there... and so on.. (quotes and my paraphrasing from Steiner's book entitled "Universe, Earth and Man".)

So what's your point?

Originally posted by Southpaw11
My best advice is that we chat via U2U. It sounds like your knowledge might be instrumental in shining a light of understanding over here... LOL! I'm not certain of all of it.

I'd like to discuss this more with you privately, perhaps bringing forward an additional sum of ORGANIZED information, so as to save time, effort, and space HERE?
Southpaw

Well since this is a discussion forum, how about you discuss it here in this thread. Since it seems you are prone to just posting alot of Mr.Sims info, It would be helpful if you discuss things about your own posts in the open where others can view and participate. I dont think the 3 Amigos or the mods would mind you taking up the space, you have already taken up space posting emails from a mailing list.

Wouldn't it be more prudent if Sims himself joins ATS to discuss his own research?

Just my $.02

*pulls hair out in frustration*

COMMON PEOPLE... please tell me your not as shallow as to assume Irish people are descendants of aliens, Atlantis, even prone to more alien abductions?

It is a simple study of anthropology and the spreading of various ETHNIC GROUPS NOT FREAKING RACES .. my god.. I love the Irish, any one who knows me knows that, but I find this entire conversation ignorant and crude. The OP has offered NO actual "proof" or "logic behind the topic" to even let it make sense let alone prove anything else related to it. As far as physical appearance and such, the Irish look very much like the English/Scotts. They are an ethnic group, they are not a race, please stop calling them a race, the Anglo's are not a race, the Scandinavians are not a race, even the Greeks are not a race. I try and add some educated points into the conversation and I am told that it is just so absurd that I wouldn't understand. I would have a more intelligent conversation with my cat.

I personally think that the Irish are the most visually beautiful people in Europe; this is common knowledge. Where else can you find so many vibrant redheads or people with blue-black hair -- both types with alabaster skin and amazing bright blue eye's. At least in this regard, one sometimes does wonder if they are, in fact, a separate race. Lol...

[edit on 3-3-2007 by Palasheea]

I am 100% Irish lived in Ireland all my life and have never ever heard of anyone outside the US getting abducted by aliens.

Where else can you find so many vibrant redheads

Indeed. I ended up marrying one! We've been seriously considering moving to Atlantis....I mean, Ireland....for quite some time.

sorry I got off topic there....carry on (*quietly shuffles away, head down*)

My grandfather was full blooded Irish with a Gaelic surname.

Maybe that's why I'm here at ATS

I also have AB blood type - - Add to this research, the increasing evidence of Extra Terrestrial contact and abduction experiences occurring worldwide; the recent revelation by scientists of the 223 ’alien genes’ in human DNA that cannot be explained by conventional evolutionary theories; and the rare AB-blood type developing within human society. The investigation of human genetic origins appears to be an idea whose time has come.

Key Twillight Zone music

I'm half Irish and I know that I'm different.

Different how, you might ask?

Good question but I'll avoid that one for now. But I will tell you that I have the luck of the Irish and that's enough for now.

My son also seems to have the luck of the Irish.. I wonder if this is a genetic trait.

Originally posted by Palasheea
I personally think that the Irish are the most visually beautiful people in Europe; this is common knowledge. Where else can you find so many vibrant redheads or people with blue-black hair -- both types with alabaster skin and amazing bright blue eye's. At least in this regard, one sometimes does wonder if they are, in fact, a separate race. Lol...

[edit on 3-3-2007 by Palasheea]

Indeed I have a weak spot for redheads my fiancee is pure Irish, she has red hair as well lol .. but it still doesn't make the Irish a seperate race. The ancient Celts where simply issolated, like every other different ethnicity, such as the Picts, the Welsh, they are all Celtic by decendants. Welsh, Scotts, they are not different races either, they are simply different ethnicities. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ALIENS.

Originally posted by CelticFC
I am 100% Irish lived in Ireland all my life and have never ever heard of anyone outside the US getting abducted by aliens.

I myself have family from Ireland. I have lived in Ireland for many years. I worked with a UFO Abduction Investigator. He studied over 100 cases before getting involved with UFO work more seriously. Its happend in Ireland too!

Well, so far I've seen no evidence, rational thought or even "walking around sense" to support any of this, just hastily drawn conclusions based on flawed assumptions and flagrantly wrong information.
Before I bow out of this wankfest, I'd just like to clarify for those who may be wondering....I'm Irish/Native American with AB blood type, don't drink, have never been abducted by aliens, am not spiritually "gifted", have never seen bigfoot (despite living out in the country) and have no evidence whatsoever for my irrational belief that haplogroup 1 has absolutely nothing to do with extraterrestrials.
Carry on.

Originally posted by Southpaw11


No anger. One Love.

SP

Hi Southpaw!

I have been a long time lurker here and have read about 50 or so of your posts, and I have to say that you NEVER make sense.

You ALWAYS come off as the craziest person I have ever encountered. Your posts are pure insanity. What is your deal?

Please, in a nutshell............ explain your point of view in regards to all things UFO/Alien. The things you post make me scared to meet someone like you in real life. You seem moderately educated, yet you come off as the most bat-shat insane dude on the internet.

I really hope you can explain yourself and change my view of you.

I think a better reading of the OP's sources is in order. Yes, I always harp on "what did they really say"... and this is a very good case in point where the first thing that needed to be done was look at the source.

What caught my attention was the word "race" because no scientist has a genetic definition for race. There's genetic groups, but they may not correlate with appearance.

So what DID Bradley say?

Dr. Bradley said that the limited number of Y chromosomes in a small sample of about 800 men in NORTHWESTERN Ireland carry a genetic marker identified with the ruler, Naill of the Nine Hostages (there's no evidence that Naill is an alien.)
nytimes.com

Dr. Bradley's homepage is here:
www.tcd.ie...

Notice that he's interested in correlating genetic signatures with last names (surnames) to map where people come from in Ireland. He also studies salmon and thoroughbred horses.

This does stir the "Irish were not Celts" controversy. It does not identify a race (Irish isn't a race, it's a nationality) and says that during a time of strife and warfare, one group in one relatively small area had the mating advantage in that part of Ireland by virtue of being the conquerers.

This is interesting, but it ain't that surprising. It says that after that time, they generally married locally rather than marrying others from across the nation (not surprising) and that local populations didn't travel much.

The "Irish are a race apart" title comes from a newspaper reporter (sigh). Dr. Bradley would not approve.

Another article, explaining that the link is between cromosomes and last names:
www.irishculturalsociety.com...

[edit on 3-3-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by nobodyelse
Mary Mother Of Jesus...A race apart are we?

As me old da used to say, "You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead"

Well, Tap A The Marnin Ta Ya All!!!

(And could you see ya way to lendin me good self a bob or two till Friday? Me paycheck was fair eaten through by the dag at the bar when Oi left if unda me Guinness but Oi could have it back by Friday)

Could you be any more sterotypically Oirish ?

Been watching 'Far and Away' bit too much methinks.