2012 End of the World and other crap

Originally posted by detonator
I agree, we can all avoid bad events in future if we change our collective consciousness and understand why is something happening and then act accordingly to that understanding.

It's really our choice if we approach next years with fear and war or with something more positive. Future is not fixed and we always can change lanes.

The time has passed. The future is now inevitable. Prepare.
Bible Code Prediction

The interesting thing about the precession of the equinoxes is that historically speaking, the turn from one age to the next *did* include some fairly huge mental, spiritual and social changes - the easiest one to grasp being the age of Pisces and the rise of Christianity. But yes, as someone else mentioned, Aquarius is about 500 years away yet - though it's considered in some circles that the final 10 degrees of an age portends the next age to some degree - those final 10 degrees started around the 1930's for us.

As far as calendars are concerned, the book I'm currently reading makes an excellent point (Sacred Science: The King of Pharaonic Theocracy - RA Schwaller De Lubicz).

If you were to jump say, a thousand years from now. And you were an archaeologist. Could you, by reading our texts, or looking at dates on monuments, figure out with relation to your own calendar, when our dates signified?

The Egyptian calendar can be determined, since their calendar was based upon astronomical observations, such as the 365 day cycle of Sirius. The egyptians were also well aware of the processions of the equinoxes.

For anyone interested in egyptology and ancient civilisations, I *HIGHLY* recommend the above book. It's very scholarly, and at times very hard to follow, but offers some very interesting ideas - contradicting much of the common ideas of egyptology, but in a completely scholarly way, by a man that essentially spent his life studying Egypt. I would try and explain some of his ideas but I doubt I could do them justice, and if I could, they deserve another thread entirely.

Originally posted by Inannamute
The interesting thing about the precession of the equinoxes is that historically speaking, the turn from one age to the next *did* include some fairly huge mental, spiritual and social changes - the easiest one to grasp being the age of Pisces and the rise of Christianity.

Doesn't quite match up with the dates, which everyone keeps adjusting to fit current events.

But yes, as someone else mentioned, Aquarius is about 500 years away yet - though it's considered in some circles that the final 10 degrees of an age portends the next age to some degree - those final 10 degrees started around the 1930's for us.

...like that adjustment. Notice the 'fudge factor" in case people don't suddenly become enlightened.

If you were to jump say, a thousand years from now. And you were an archaeologist. Could you, by reading our texts, or looking at dates on monuments, figure out with relation to your own calendar, when our dates signified?

Yes. I can say that confidently because I've done some archaeological work on digs and because I've taken coursework and know how it's done. That, and a thousand years (or even 5,000 years) isn't that far back in time.

The Egyptian calendar can be determined, since their calendar was based upon astronomical observations, such as the 365 day cycle of Sirius. The egyptians were also well aware of the processions of the equinoxes.

The book is wrong there. They had a 360 day lunar calendar (and, although you didn't ask it, we do know the dates of their major festival events even though those are 4,000 years in our past) :
www.touregypt.net...

And they had no knowledge of the precession of the equinoxes. They did use Sirius to base their year on, however.

... but in a completely scholarly way, by a man that essentially spent his life studying Egypt.

Can I add that he doesn't read hieroglyphics, rejected all the things that the Egyptologists found, and makes up his own theories not based on reading the texts but on what he thinks things mean?

The ancient Egyptians left us a lot of writing during the 4,000 year span of their culture (which faded after it was overrun by Rome.) Many "new theorists" prefer to not actually look at the evidence or cherry pick material to present their case. How many times have you seen the Great Pyramid referenced, leaving the impression that there's only 3 pyramids on Giza (there are nine, there are a LOT of temples there, there's the sphynx and an avenue of sphynxes and roadways all built by the pyramid builders). They present a selective picture so you focus on their explainations and don't demand to know about things they can't explain (like the funeral chapels in front of the pyramids.)

I wasn't posting what I particularly believe regarding the equinox thing, merely what I've read.

As far as the Egyptian calendar, my point was that unlike the gregorian calendar, it was based on astronomical data, rather than a religious date. And I believe their year had 360 days, plus 5 days that weren't part of their year, dedicated to each of five gods..

Have you read any of Lubicz' books?

At the very least, nothing in his book was presented as attempting to convert the reader to some ideology or belief, much of it is simply a discussion of symbolique, the idea that the stories and carvings and pictures of egypt were not solely either a historical record, or a series of myths, but something in between, representations of ideas intended to illuminate and illustrate metaphysical growth - in much the same way as parables do.

As far as the pyramids, and the temples, *shrug*, I don't know which sources you're referring to, since I have no personal experience of them. Beyond anything else, I prefer to read all I can find about a topic and make my own conclusions.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by Inannamute]

Heres the big mistory on the mayan calendar. December 21 2012 is the end of a full cycle. After which the cyle repeats itself no sense adding a bunch more dates.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Why are there many 'white brother', or 'younger brother' prophecies across N and S America? It seems implausible that a remote S. American tribe, such as the Koggi? sic, tells nearly the same thing. Are they all recent additions, which dishonestly claim to be very old?

Yes. The South American ones are pure fabrication. The North American, however, are something else.

They date to the Ghost Dance religion of the late 1800's when Native Americans, who'd been hunted and killed like animals, driven (on foot by soldiers) from their homelands to reservations, had their children kidnapped and sent to be "reeducated" and a thousand things (which will make you angry and disgusted to read about) were probably at the lowest spiritual point they'd ever been.
As to macro-Astrology, I am no expert, and don't know all the details. The current material has been reworked to play on the 2012 fad.

I am not convinced the S. American prophecies are all untrue fabrications. If so, there are many different cases of such dishonesty, and I feel that if one calls another a liar, they should give good reasons for such accusations.
Mayan prophecies of the Cortez landing are said to exist. Are they lies written much later? The Koggi I mentioned seemed sincere when I saw the elder on tv telling of the return of 'younger brother.' Has he been duped?
Thank you for mentioning wounded knee, an atrocity for which the murderers received medals. The trail of tears came to mind when I read your post.
Such horror there is in our past...

Mayan prophecies of the Cortez landing are said to exist. Are they lies written much later? The Koggi I mentioned seemed sincere when I saw the elder on tv telling of the return of 'younger brother.' Has he been duped?

there were no prophecies that said soldiers will arrive on boats you have never seen before and slaughter you unmercilessly
this is a typical claims made by pseudo historians who like to forget all the actual details and draw on the similarities for their own purposes
very much like giving medals to murderers like you mentioned

the actual prophecy this is linked to is that of the return of Quetzlcoatl who was said to have been returning via the east coast on a serpent raft around that time
there were no tales saying that quetzlcoatl was a white man and none saying that he would stink of garlic and obsess about catholicism to a large degree or need all the gold and silver you had lying around for some reason

so take it or leave it depends on how desperate you are to prove the mayans knew more than we thought they did about future events
which of course they didn't
the very fact that they had a calendar that goes all the way to 2012 when their civilisation doesnt should tell you a little about their ability as precogs


the returning younger brother myth is not usually mixed up with that of the return of quetzlcoatl, one is a god and the other a relative
its also recorded in N America amongst various native tribes the most famous example being that of the Hopi with their pahana legend (Pahana - lost white brother)
if he returns from the west then the world wil end
if he returns from the east then the world will be saved

better hope hes European then eh

NA prophecy page
www.welcomehome.org...

Originally posted by Marduk
there were no prophecies that said soldiers will arrive on boats you have never seen before and slaughter you unmercilessly
this is a typical claims made by pseudo historians who like to forget all the actual details and draw on the similarities for their own purposes
very much like giving medals to murderers like you mentioned

NA prophecy page
www.welcomehome.org...

I could say the same of your proclamations of knowledge, which are rarely accompanied by supporting evidence. Pseudo historians are not always wrong, and the 'experts' not right all the time. Your reference to wounded knee was hard to understand. Is it your view that the medals were not given? Or that they were deserved? Or that the event itself is not really true? Some groups have called for the medals to be taken away from the cavalrymen, in an attempt to apologize for the wanton slaughter they eagerly took part in that day. What is your view on it, Marduk? I find your post is quite vague.

i suppose in that case that you don't regard the many credible websites i link to as evidence
rather you would prefer to hear something written by someone completely unqualified because you happen to believe the same thing before you have seen any evidence
pseudohistorians have never been right about anything that I recall
perhaps you can enlighten me with some examples

anyway
wounded knee I side with the indians
in fact even today over most matters I side with the indians
we English have quite a lot in common with them if you think about it
we both used to have lots more land which we had gained by exploration and thesedays are back to being an island nation surrounded by enemies that call us their friends
funny world isnt it

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I am not convinced the S. American prophecies are all untrue fabrications. If so, there are many different cases of such dishonesty, and I feel that if one calls another a liar, they should give good reasons for such accusations.

Mmmkay... here's what happened. Cortez and the Spanish came in and decimated the people with the help of the local tribes. The Aztecs had been capturing their neighbors and sacrificing them (often in very unpleasant rituals), and the neighbors welcomed the Europeans.
www.wsu.edu...

The Spanish priests tried to reeducate the people to Catholicism (what resulted was kind of a half-Catholicism/half native religion). Many of their stories were changed or lost (there are any number of good examples of this. I can go into it but didn't want to write a whole book here.)

Some of the priests (true humanitarians) tried to help the people and recorded what they could find out about the cultures. Some of the old books (Codeces) were saved from being burned, but many were burned. So these are the real records that we have from that time.

The Spaniards actually treated the Indians better than the Americans did. Indians were not a nuiscance to be exterminated; they were a work force that needed to be tamed (like cattle or horses) and treated like you would treat a farm animal or ... well... peon. There were abuses, but they were integrated into the culture and not shoved onto reservations to die.

Mayan prophecies of the Cortez landing are said to exist. Are they lies written much later?

Some are. You can see the first page of an academic publication about that here:
links.jstor.org...(198522)9%3A3%3C239%3A%22LWTBA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-E

And this paper goes into them (known and recorded ones -- the internet ones are newer than these in the paper). Apparently the Aztecs HAD met Spaniards in the year before Cortez arrived. :
www.stlawu.edu...

The Koggi I mentioned seemed sincere when I saw the elder on tv telling of the return of 'younger brother.' Has he been duped?

He is sincere, but his history has been reworked into a myth. At this time, almost all the Native Americans are some variation of Christian... a single creator god (if you read their legends, you'll see that this is not what they originally thought) and with a very naturist twist that the original stories don't match.

A few of the tribes (Hopi is one I remember specifically) that are trying to recover their old spirituality, but I don't know that it's possible under the present Christian environment.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Pseudo historians are not always wrong, and the 'experts' not right all the time.

Could you give me an example?

Your reference to wounded knee was hard to understand. Is it your view that the medals were not given? Or that they were deserved? Or that the event itself is not really true? Some groups have called for the medals to be taken away from the cavalrymen, in an attempt to apologize for the wanton slaughter they eagerly took part in that day.

I can answer this one... it's that yes, the medals were for genocide. In fact, the slaughter was so outrageous that even at the time there were calls for the medals to be revoked. A military commission examined the facts and exonerated the commander who led the attack that killed 300 of the 350 people in the camp:
www.lastoftheindependents.com...

Even today there's still calls for the medals to be revoked. At this point it's more symbolic, but it's a real issue for Native Americans.

BlackGuard.. the hoppi predictions have changed a bit, things on the 2012 will not be as severe as the hopi revealed but yes in fact there will be signs/weather/earth changes, actually they are already happening, the circle will be closed on 2011. People be prepared; This is not the only time this is been discussed.

I'm out of this discussion, hopefully i'll see you all in 2012...

Greetings all,

Fascinating thread, I know the 2012 thing is virtually becoming passe as we speak (just wait till it get's even closer), but I still think this particular thread has some relevant and interesting things to say about this notion. I occaisionally lurk, and only post when I feel I can contribute something (and so far that has been a largely fruit-less venture which suprised even me). Quite honestly I'm a little put off by the culture of ATS, that's all I'm going to say on that front-- I still think this is a cool forum, but I'm not going to spend as much of my time on this thing as many people do (no offense to those of you that do, btw). I definately find some of the topics interesting, and I consider myself open-minded however I don't find my personal validation through arguing anonymously on a forum that was clearly created for disussions about UFOs et al, like a lot of people seem to for some unknown reason.

Dark13 mentioned in his list early on (2nd post from OP) that the Kabbalists had a view that was along-side many other cultures with regards to the "end of the world" business, and no mention or refference was brought forth (but I agree there is a connection, but more in the vein that it is a transition to a new manifestation). I thought I'd add a little something in that respect. This link I'm providing is a Rabbinic word-of-mouth sort of thing, (i.e. it was a personal remembrance of a conversation between two Chassidic/mystic rabbis), but I think it sums up the mystical Hebrew Eschatology perspective which is relevant to this thread. I am aware that Jewish theology is about as popular as pox-infested blankets on this forum (except when we're placing blame on it or it's adherents), and I'm not here to argue with the "Z.O.G. is coming for our children" crowd. That is not my burden, and I honestly am not here to tell anyone what is right or what to believe. I am, however, a student of comparitive religion and have studied a lot of Hebrew texts as a matter of course, therefore I have a certain understanding of the theology of the Torah/Judaism. And although I don't think I need to state it, I am not Jewish, nor am I x-tian-- not that it should matter, and not that I don't find value in all traditions. As the *source* of authority within the "Abrahamic faiths" (i.e. Judaism, x-tianity, Islam), do I think that the original authority rests within Jewish theology? You bet. It's the source, even x-tianity and Islam claim such. Is it more right? Not necessarily, has that swayed me towards either of their perspectives? Not hardly. Alright, I'm done with the obligatory ATS caveats. Anyhow, here's an interesting link about Kabbalistic Hebrew Eschatology:

www.shemayisrael.co.il...

I'm not claiming it as proof of anything, only as an example of kabbalistic/Hebrew Eschatological thought. Even this teaching, although it seems spot-on within the context of the rabbinical teachings along these lines, remains largely unknown to many religious folks within judaism (not all of course). I think it's rather interesting. Heck, a lot of "religious jews" don't realize that Judaism has a rather concrete reincarnation scheme built in-- (plenty of them do realize this, but most of the "secular jews" have no understanding of their own reincarnation structure).

Anyhow, I'm not here to debate whether or not the Jews have horns, or are responsible for any of the stuff they seem to get blamed for on a regular basis-- I am a scholar of religion, and I think it is important to consider/understand if we want to get to the *source* of the "big 3" as it is called (although I stated in an earlier thread that the proper biug three, depending on whether you recognize Atheism/Agnosticism, that Hinduism is in the big 3 and the Jews are like 2% of the world population if I remember correctly). I didn't write this stuff, I just study this stuff.

Peace
H23

Originally posted by Marduk

the actual prophecy this is linked to is that of the return of Quetzlcoatl who was said to have been returning via the east coast on a serpent raft around that time

We already know that Quetzlcoutl is a comet, and you can bet it will be returning.

This is just another instance of the 'powers that am' turning mythological figures into people, instead of the astrological events (read: catastrophies) that they are. It happens....all the time... in the same spooky way that the Sixth Sense kid saw dead people... all the time.

Boy those ancient people were crazy! They have some stupid story telling their ancestors to watch out for when the great white glowing dragon comes from heaven and does a double flip around the god with rings, and especially don't leave anything flamable lying around, like houses or humans!

And for some reason they carved it into stone just about the time their people mysteriously vanished. Silly ancient people... never even invented paper!

Originally posted by JoeTheThird
We already know that Quetzlcoutl is a comet, and you can bet it will be returning.

Here:

. . . "The Sun of Air," Ehcatonatiuh, closed with a furious wind, which destroyed edifices, uprooted trees, and even moved the rocks. . . . Quetzalcoatl appeared in this third Sun, teaching the way of virtue and the arts of life; but his doctrines failed to take root, so he departed toward the east, promising to return another day. With his departure "the Sun of Air" came to its end, and Tlatonatiuh, "the Sun of Fire," began, so called because it was expected that the next destruction would be by fire. (emphasis added) (ibid, p. 91)

This tradition seems to imply that Quetzalcoatl (the feathered serpent) departed to the east in the last great period of cosmic destruction. A recent palaeoecological study of lakes in the Caribbean region (D.A. Hodell, 1991) reveals a sudden onset of dry conditions about thirty-two hundred years ago, this finding adds to an already robust collection of data which suggest a global perturbation of climate around that time period (1200 - 1000 B.C.E.). It is an intriguing possibility that cultures throughout the world experienced hardships during this era due to a large input of extraterrestrial material.

SNIP

Though definitive dating of protohistoric impact events can only come from careful stratigraphic work, there are some rather strong indicators that a nasty encounter such as suggested here occurred about 1159 B.C.E. This is not an arbitrary date for it marks the beginning of a sharp decline in the annual growth of Irish bog oak which lasted almost two decades and for that reason stands out in the over seven thousand year long dendrochronological record based on this species of tree (see M.G.L. Baillie and M.A.R. Munro 1988). The middle of the twelfth century also, according to widely accepted chronologies based on eclectic sources (such as Egyptian), marks a time period of general discord. A stark specimen of pertinent tie-in is related to chapter ten in the book of Joshua, where perhaps the most widely known mention of helio-halting occurs (Joshua 10: 12-14).

Source: Comet Paethon's ride

Originally posted by JoeTheThirdThis is just another instance of the 'powers that am' turning mythological figures into people, instead of the astrological events (read: catastrophies) that they are. It happens....all the time... in the same spooky way that the Sixth Sense kid saw dead people... all the time.

That's kind of silly. The "powers that be" are where this speculative theory comes from!

Harte

(fixed code)

[edit on 22-2-2008 by Jbird]

All of this talk has really become completely rediculous. Before the year 2000, all of the focus was on Y2K and nobody even spoke of 2012. It has only become popular after the previous end times predictions were debunked, which left everyone to move forth on the next predictions, which was 6/6/6-never happened, 7/7/7-never happened, and now to finally 2012. Well I must admit there is some crazy predictions for this date, which do have some accuracy. First off, the mayan calendar will end on 12/21/2012 but IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE END OF THE WORLD, it is simply the end of a great cycle, which ends on this date, and a new one will begin thereafter. There is a major galactic allignment that will also take place on this date, and a magnetic pole shift may also occur, but according to scientists, this does not all happen in an instant. Pole shift in a slow process over many years (some scientists think the poles are slowly shifting even right now) The shift could also cause major world disasters, but the magnetic level is not predicted to become 0 gauss and cause any crazy catastrophes, another GREAT example of some truth that has been blown wayyyy out of context. Nostradamus is also another big name in these prophecies, also another example of people molding something into something completely different. Nostradamus did make 1000's of quatrains which are said to have predicted many events in the past and future, but the truth behind his quatrains are that they are soo extremely vague that you can technically relate it to any event that has happened. People (especially Americans) have had an insane obsession with the end of the world, it is our own anxieties that feed into this year after year, it is sickening and rediculous that people are so concentrated on thinking this way. All of the examples I mentioned do have a bit of truth to them, but the problem is that they have all been twisted and reworded and misinterpreted through all these years that they really do not have any truth left to them anymore. And most of you are reading this information from conspiracy websites hosted by crazy conspiracy theorists who have probably dropped enough acid in their lifetime to be deemed legally insane. The saddest thing is it is so hard to even get the real facts anymore because of all these websites and biased tv documentaries spewing false misinterpreted information. My advice to all of you is to take this all with a grain of salt, and take advantage of this precious time we have on earth, we could die at any time, and its sad to know that many of us are just waisting our time. The world is in perile right now, and it is up to us to change the future no matter what may happen. Sorry if my words were just thrown together but I just felt as if I needed to get this out of me, peace to all of you.

Please accept my greetings. I am new to this discussion forum. "Byrd", I agree with you that many people believed the world will end in 2000. I never believed it. But I know that many did. But the discussion around 2012 is different. Thanks to the media, 2012 has been projected as the end of the world. The Mayan calendar, the "channeled" messages and many enlightened masters have said much about 2012. But none of them has even mentioned about the end of the world(exceptions are always there).

2012 is about change in human consciousness and a shift in the energy of the planet. THE WORLD IS NOT GOING TO END IN 2012. But a lot of natural disasters, man mad calamities, disease, financial instability, political changes and a change in the way people look at life overall will surely come to be. Infact, it has already started if we care to look all around us. This is for the old(energy) to die and the new(energy) to replace it.

The entire 2012 phenomena cannot be compared to the failed "predictions" of the world ending in 2000. And its not that on December 21st, 2012 the E.Ts will arrive to take us away or the angels will appear to read aloud a disclaimer from God. It is a process that has already started atleast 2 decades ago and will reach its climax by the end of 2012.

It's time that humans stop living in fear, hatred, greed and ego. The energy and consciousness of love is about to come upon us. Human consciousness has to and will change over the next few years. Many more people would become vegetarians and will stop shedding the blood of innocent animals just to satisfy the taste buds. Many more people will give up their obsession for money, power and sex and will become sensitive to love, peace and joy. Many more people will awaken to the fact that we cannot keep polluting and abusing the resources of our planet if humanity has to survive.

But let me remind you that I am not talking about a dramatic or miraculous transformation of the world overnight on Dec 21, 2012.

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti,
Sid from India