Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Byrd, I don't claim to know when the Hopi predictions were made, but if you are right, and they date from the 1920's, the first four predictions have already happened. Are you saying they are being careless with the truth, and predicting after the fact?

The "predictions" did come after the event, yes. The "prediction" about the White Brother was something that arose out of the Ghost Dance era in the late 1800's. The Hopi community had a split over this in the 1920's, and this was a "prophecy" from that time.

You can tell by the reference to a "Great Spirit." The Hopi religion (original) had no such being.

Also, from what I have read, the transit from Pisces fully into Aquarius takes over fifty years, earth spending more days in Aquarius each year.

How could that be? The sun traverses the same sector of sky that it's always crossed for the past 4 billion years. There's nothing "more" to spend time in. The patch of sky we label "Aquarius" has always occupied exactly the same area of sky.

Egyptian and Greek information I have read may be wrong. I haven't seen any of the original texts.

They're out there. I've stumbled through some in the original languages. I'm not good at either, but I can (with help and a bit of searching) determine that what's being said matches the original text.

Solar cycles are currently of intense interest to astronomers, and they are learning more every year. The idea that they already know all of the periodicities of any cycles over, say 10 000 years, is hard for me to accept.

There was a lot of fascinating information on those links about how they're studied. And, of course, since the orbits and all are simply physics, we can easily predict where things will be in the future and what happened in the past and then test the hypothesis with the real data (very interesting stuff on those pages!)

Regarding '99 and 2000, I chuckled at the hysteria myself. That is a far different thing than the Mayan calendar.

Actually, it's being turned into the same thing -- creating stress and panics and financial opportunties for people writing on "how to survive 2012." Truth is, we'll all survive 2012 just as we survived the beginning of the "cycle" and all other points of the cycle in the past 4 billion years.

I wish people would stop referring to 2012 as the "end of the world"...nothing is going to end other than the status quo malfunctioning society we have at present. 2012 is merely a change, not an end.

If 2012 is nothing, then so is the New World Order, 9/11 wasn't an inside job, JFK was killed by Oswald and so on...

They are not independant conspiracies, but very much linked together, not directly, but they are all to do with the same thing...keeping humanity in a state of fear and control.

The one thing that ATS lacks is people talking about consciousness and altered states of mind (funny how talking about drugs is still looked down upon at ATS, and other sites aswell). I think alot of people here would benefit from a one time experience with Mushrooms. Once you've realised there is more to life than meets the eye, it becomes very difficult to ignore 2012..

I just want to direct you to a 3 hour vid that gave me a huge insight into the whole 2011/2012 "thing".

www.mayanmajix.com (go to the learning center and view the DVD part 1 & 2 on google video.)

Ian and his partner have put together a very believable scenario for the evolution of the planet per the mayan calendar timeline. This seriously changed my outlook on the coming changes. I embrace it now, given the assurance that we are evolving toward self-realization and co-creating our existence.


edit: wanted to add some info on the coming events per their translation. and with my added ideas. [warning! opinion follows!]

disclosure, followed by an exchange of information that allows us to supercede our current industrial capitalism. This means, we will not need to make 200 loaves of bread, but to "copy" the first loaf as many times as needed (molecularly).

The next step is the failure of our current system due to this change. This is the night after the day. (large loss of life)

Next we learn that we can "manifest" our own needs, instead of "copying" them. This is even harder for humans to handle. But those who succeed will continue to evolve.

Night again - we lose another portion of the population as before.

Then we "ascend" to co-creating our existence, furthering the idea of a collective conciousness to the point of nirvana or w/e u like to call it. (once again, this is MY opinion based on the information i have received so far.)


[edit on 4/30/2007 by 12SeVeN34]

[edit on 4/30/2007 by 12SeVeN34]

Yes, i would also like to recommend the video you just mentioned. Its on googlevideo i believe, very informative stuff.

Again, consciousness/2012 is my primary focus now, and not when the New World Order is going to roll in..

The problem with "predictions" is they are not set in stone, nor are they conclusive. Remote viewers, shamans, and the like, have not been able to see past 2012 and some time afterwards, which suggests that the 2012 date is more than just some cosmos alignment, and is very much an entanglement involving the human collective consciousness, earth, the Sun etc.. it is a creative process, one which is in the making right now.

And people wander why we see so many crop cirles and UFO's these days

I like the title of this Thread very much. The only way people will buy the book or video or ( fill in the blank) is to scare them and tell them they are about to Freekin Die.

It has mystified me how people will fly to conventions, spend hundreds on videos, tapes, books, lectures, instead of spending time in their local library or even online to learn about our history and why things are.

Joseph cambell has some good classes available regarding Myths, how they get started, and snowball into what we have today.


August 13, 3113 BC Day one Mayan Sun.
Circa 3100 BC Ancient Egyptian first dynasty
3102 BC start of Kali Yuga in India.
11:11 AM, December 21, 2012, Annual Winter Solstice
Dec. 21, 2012 is day one of Baktun 13 Mayan ( 13.0.0.0.0.)
Dec. 21, 2012 end of Suntelia Aion, Ancient Greece.
Hindu Vedas say this is the time of the end of the Kali Yuga.
THe Aborigines of Australia say the 40 000 year dreamtime is ending now.
The Maori agree.
The Hopi elders named nine signs that would precede the 'third shaking', and eight are in the books as of today, one to go.
Many peoples spoke of these last days of the Great Cycle, including the: Maya, Hopi, Egyptians, Kabbalists, Essenes, Qero elders of Peru, Navajo, Cherokee, Apache, Iroquois confederacy, Dogon Tribe, and Aborigines.
Christian prophets claim the rapture, armageddon, or apocalypse is very soon.
The Greeks called the end of the age Suntelia Aion. Plato refered to a cycle of catastrophe at the end of the age. The Suntelia Aion was symbolized by the Ouroboros. The myth of the Ouroboros refers to a serpent of light that resides in the heavens. The Milky Way galaxy is that serpent and when viewed from galactic central point it eats its own tail.
Dec. 21, 2012 is the Suntelia Aion, Ancient Greece.
Astrologists say we are entering a new age now, 2010 said by some to be the first year that we spend more days in Aquarius than in Pisces.



There are dates which are valid, but what do they have to do with the rest of the Post.

Dreamtime does not end, does not begin. It is the Aborigines version of reality, and in fact we are living in the dream. It is where they travel to meet their ancestors, their descendants, and recieve their education of life. it is where they go when they die and came from before they were born.

The age of Aquarious begins in the year 2597, when the vernal equinox enters the constellation of the same. this is the technical and astonomical timeline. There are esoterical aspects that create a transition period, but even so it isnt for another few hundred years
But, there isnt any money in a song or books that discuss waiting several hundred more years for peace love and harmony.

People have been speaking of the end times since we could pass down oral traditions. The book of revelations is based upon far ealier writings, and those are based upon even earlier writings...there is nothing new under the sun.

It is the same today; if it bleeds, it leads...a common theme of our news cycle.

Instill fear and terror, and the world will surrender itself unto you...because the alternative is reason and logic.

Originally posted by Byrd The "prediction" about the White Brother was something that arose out of the Ghost Dance era in the late 1800's. You can tell by the reference to a "Great Spirit." The Hopi religion (original) had no such being.

Also, from what I have read, the transit from Pisces fully into Aquarius takes over fifty years, earth spending more days in Aquarius each year.

There's nothing "more" to spend time in. ... "Aquarius" has always occupied exactly the same area of sky.

Egyptian and Greek information I have read may be wrong. I haven't seen any of the original texts.

They're out there. I've stumbled through some in the original languages. I'm not good at either, but I can (with help and a bit of searching) determine that what's being said matches the original text.

Solar cycles are currently of intense interest to astronomers, and they are learning more every year. The idea that they already know all of the periodicities of any cycles over, say 10 000 years, is hard for me to accept.

There was a lot of fascinating information on those links about how they're studied. And, of course, since the orbits and all are simply physics, we can easily predict where things will be in the future and what happened in the past and then test the hypothesis with the real data (very interesting stuff on those pages!)

Regarding '99 and 2000, I chuckled at the hysteria myself. That is a far different thing than the Mayan calendar.

Actually, it's being turned into the same thing -- creating stress and panics and financial opportunties for people writing on "how to survive 2012."

Why are there many 'white brother', or 'younger brother' prophecies across N and S America? It seems implausible that a remote S. American tribe, such as the Koggi? sic, tells nearly the same thing. Are they all recent additions, which dishonestly claim to be very old?
As to macro-Astrology, I am no expert, and don't know all the details. The precession of the equinoxes is what the zodiac tracks, the signs are the 12 sections of the night sky that add up the 25 000 or so year cycle.
I admire your expertise in languages, and believe you about the texts.
Solar cycles are fascinating, agreed. I spent some time reading about them last night. New stuff is constantly published, and there have frequently been record size flares, coronal mass ejections, and storms in the last decade. They were not predicted, and actually went against what was predicted.
Some things can be foreseen, but if a brief solar event has a 12 000 year cycle, is it not reasonable to consider the chance we might miss it? I say it is probable we are unaware of some such long cycles, for lack of data. Such data has been put forth quite often, and in some cases, very professionally so, showing evidence of global destruction. I watched another such find described recently. It was melted metallic balls in micro-organisms, in massive sand dunes created by tsunamis, which the University professor, Lamont?, called evidence of a large comet impact within the last 10 000 years. I'll get more information on that. It supports that the event was real, and the source of mass extinctions, which I also agree makes the most sense, and fits the physical evidence best. It also matches quite well with the ancient accounts from around the world. Is it so hard to believe that it is possible? The current theories taught about the end of the last ice age, imho, are far harder to reconcile with the evidence.
And I agree with your point, 2012 furor is a very attractive cash cow, no grifter is likely to miss, or pass up. That doesn't make it the same thing as Y2K, other than many con artists will profit from both.
I also see no reason to be afraid of 2012, and don't worry about it myself. It is just a subject I find has many intriguing, and interesting aspects.

Oops, posted twice, deleted second one.

[edit on 5/2/2007 by BlackGuardXIII]

Real change to society will come with Antichrist and maybe with World War 3 due soon. You can avoid it, but because of so much ignorance and TV zombies i highly doubt you will avoid anything. And like many times in history innocent will suffer and those guilty will hide. But this time not for long.

The solar max is due in 2011, good luck with your doomsday prophecies.

It's logical, just look at middle east and all demonization of Islam in media recently and all anti-USA/west literature there. It's done on purpose to start new world war, as planned decades ago. It can be avoided but a lot of leeches on all sides profit from war so they will actually push it. If millions die, they do not care. Some of them do, but they are silent in fear. Most of the responsible are from EU, not USA. USA is just a bunch of useful cowboys, like Israel is useful for them in mid east.

Originally posted by el fuego Instill fear and terror, and the world will surrender itself unto you...because the alternative is reason and logic.

Great post el fuego!

This one always gets my goat:

Originally posted by el fuego

...Dec. 21, 2012 end of Suntelia Aion, Ancient Greece....

The Greeks called the end of the age Suntelia Aion. Plato refered to a cycle of catastrophe at the end of the age. The Suntelia Aion was symbolized by the Ouroboros. The myth of the Ouroboros refers to a serpent of light that resides in the heavens. The Milky Way galaxy is that serpent and when viewed from galactic central point it eats its own tail.
Dec. 21, 2012 is the Suntelia Aion, Ancient Greece.

Translate "Suntelia Aion" into English and you get "End of the Era (or "End of the Age" the "end time" in other words)"

The phrase actually comes from the New Testament, John I believe, and not from Plato. The Disciples were asking when Jesus would return. That portion (and many others) of the New Testament being written in Greek, it of course mentions the suntelia aion - "...when will come the end of the era, the judgement day..." (paraphrasing, of course, I'm not about to go look this crap up again), or what have you.

All of you might remember when Jesus said that the end will come "like a thief in the night" or something. That's the same passage.

This stupid foofaraw is all over the internet. Not a single one of the mouth-breather idiots that put this idiocy on their website has even bothered to find out that what they are saying (pasting, really) is:

"The Ancient Greeks called it The End of The End of the Era!!!!"

OOOOOO!! SPOOOOOKY!!!

Cue Twilight Zone theme here.

Harte

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
I wish people would stop referring to 2012 as the "end of the world"...nothing is going to end other than the status quo malfunctioning society we have at present. 2012 is merely a change, not an end.

If 2012 is nothing, then so is the New World Order, 9/11 wasn't an inside job, JFK was killed by Oswald and so on...

They are not independant conspiracies, but very much linked together, not directly, but they are all to do with the same thing...keeping humanity in a state of fear and control.

The one thing that ATS lacks is people talking about consciousness and altered states of mind (funny how talking about drugs is still looked down upon at ATS, and other sites aswell). I think alot of people here would benefit from a one time experience with Mushrooms. Once you've realised there is more to life than meets the eye, it becomes very difficult to ignore 2012..

I also think its funny how our conciousness is the one thing that sets us apart in our world, and the only thing that makes us 'aware of our awareness'. You mention psychedelics to someone who has never taken them and they think it causes psychosis and hallucinations. If you have never taken these substances you don't even know what hallucination means.

I've actually always hated the world hallucination because it almost labels it as a fake image intruding into the brain. When you take drugs like these you dont see clowns and monsters and ghosts appearing before you, you see the same world but with a different perception. I can't explain it to you if you haven't tried it so I am not even going to bother. You can't fully understand what a psychedelic hallucination is unless you have experienced it and you don't know what perception really means unless you have experienced a truly different one.

The point is if our brains are what makes us special, and there are naturally occuring substances that effect it's perception dramatically, why would you ignore something like that? Your missing a very mysterious and spiritual experience if you have not tried these.

The 'hallucinations' (which are merely extremely focused optical illusions caused by enhances focus on pattern) are not really the main focus, but rather the intense emotional/spiritual feeling along with enhanced sensory perception and speedy philosophical thinking that makes these substances so special. You realize the beauty in everything around you and feel a sense of overall understanding or enlightenment.

That is really how it all ties in, and if you don't believe me or don't understand what I'm saying it is because you haven't experienced it and there is only one way to really know.

I'm not trying to seem like I am so smart and have it all figured out, but I know how important consciousness is to our entire existance, and so did the maya.

I agree, we can all avoid bad events in future if we change our collective consciousness and understand why is something happening and then act accordingly to that understanding.

It's really our choice if we approach next years with fear and war or with something more positive. Future is not fixed and we always can change lanes.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Why are there many 'white brother', or 'younger brother' prophecies across N and S America? It seems implausible that a remote S. American tribe, such as the Koggi? sic, tells nearly the same thing. Are they all recent additions, which dishonestly claim to be very old?

Yes. The South American ones are pure fabrication. The North American, however, are something else.

They date to the Ghost Dance religion of the late 1800's when Native Americans, who'd been hunted and killed like animals, driven (on foot by soldiers) from their homelands to reservations, had their children kidnapped and sent to be "reeducated" and a thousand things (which will make you angry and disgusted to read about) were probably at the lowest spiritual point they'd ever been. Alchoholism and suicide were rampant. Into this mindset comes a man with a vision... a vision when the White Brother will shape up and start acting ethically.

Ironically, the Whites found this even MORE threatening and the Ghost Dance was prosecuted until the 1920's and later. The ones involved in the founding movement were Christian or nominally so, and had accepted the missionaries' logic of "you have a great Creator spirit in your creation legends... well, the name of the Great Spirit is the Christian deity." Their prophecies are colored by this.

You can read up on the Ghost Dance if you like. It's part of the history that includes the shameful Wounded Knee massacre.

As to macro-Astrology, I am no expert, and don't know all the details. The precession of the equinoxes is what the zodiac tracks, the signs are the 12 sections of the night sky that add up the 25 000 or so year cycle.

When I was in college the first time (in 1970), astrology was all the rage. I earned extra money for books and clothes by doing and interpreting astrological charts for the other girls on campus, so I have a pro's idea of what it's all about. The current material has been reworked to play on the 2012 fad.

I watched another such find described recently. It was melted metallic balls in micro-organisms, in massive sand dunes created by tsunamis, which the University professor, Lamont?, called evidence of a large comet impact within the last 10 000 years. I'll get more information on that. It supports that the event was real, and the source of mass extinctions, which I also agree makes the most sense, and fits the physical evidence best.

Oh do find the link! I'm interested!

It also matches quite well with the ancient accounts from around the world.

Which accounts, and are they authentic and original or are they a "kit-bashing" of tales? I'm not sure that any tale survived unchanged for 10,000 years. Heck, we can't even tell a joke in the same way as it goes from person to person (even among the professional comedians.) While there are disaster tales that are very old (the Mesopotamian flood stories predating the Biblical Flood story), one flood story is not the same as another.

It is just a subject I find has many intriguing, and interesting aspects.

If I could split into 6 people, one of them would be tracking the Mayan 2012 stuff in order to write a lot of things about it!

Originally posted by Byrd

If I could split into 6 people, one of them would be tracking the Mayan 2012 stuff in order to write a lot of things about it!

the 2012 stuff has the pop cultures minds all awhirl,
its profitable to join in with the cottage industry built around Maya 2012,
so i'd just go with the flow...


how would one go about pointing out that the Mayan people in the past
were attuned to and lived their lives around the numberous
shorter cycle calendars which ranged from 28 day cycles to 20 year cycles


some of the names of these calendars, which were short lived in time,
are TUN, HAAB, KIEJ, MUCHUCHU MIL, AJAU TUN.....(there are more)

and these short-duration calendars were associated with the forces in nature & society...& the calendar priests/ shamans, used these yearly and generational (20 yr & 52 yr) 'calendars' as a way to introduce prophetic themes into the Maya culture ....for the purpose to control or direct the lives of the population at large.

The levels of different priests (aka; social enineers) decided inside their inner sanctums which way the social order/society was headed, by the use of these prophetic themes; such as drought in one cycle, and corn scarcity in the next cycle, then conflict with enemies in the next cycle.....
these were all used to shape the Maya masses to take certain actions
and behave as the historical puppet-masters ordained...
(not much has changed, has it?...other than the masters now being politicians & monied oligarchs)


Also, the highest level Priests were not concerned with the 'commoners'
calendars which were concerned with the events of nature and the pressures created by a massive population concentrated in a tropical environment...those duties were assigned to the lower order priests in the heirarchy.
The high priests concerned themselves with those longer 'calendars'
which were;
CHOL TUN~260 yr
TIKU TUN~468 yr
EKMOAL TUN ~520 yr
OX LAJUJ BAKTUN~5,200 yr (This is the 2012, "13 Baktun" Calendar
that has everyone abuzz)

Maybe i'm seeing the Maya calendar issue (& the myths/stories generated)
thru tinted lenses...
but i sure don't see an eaglatarian promise of a Utopian humanity, or a
sudden spurt of intellectual & spiritual growth for humans at large because
an ancient dating system of time.
The "13 Baktun" calendar of 5,120 years, is only a part of another Maya
calendar....probably it corresponds to 1/5th of the 26,000+ year precessional cycle we are sorta familiar with (as a mix of astrology & science)
The 2012 phenomenon, was of no cencern to the ancestor Maya at large,
the commoners were not even aware of (future) 2012 significance....
imo, neither were the high priest heirarchy...
modern minds & crafters of stories are the authors...

more power to 'em
let the hair go with the hide, as they say




my $ .02


[edit on 3-5-2007 by St Udio]

I suggested in another thread that maybe the collective (sub)conscious has set the date 2012 as a date to get our # together. Its a sign that a lot of people are fed up or not happy with the way things are, so unknowingly to us, so much effort and energy has been put into it that it will be self-fulfilling. I myself think that there will be another jump in brain evolution or the dualist mind set disappears.

Originally posted by Mushroom Fields Forever
I also think its funny how our conciousness is the one thing that sets us apart in our world, and the only thing that makes us 'aware of our awareness'. You mention psychedelics to someone who has never taken them and they think it causes psychosis and hallucinations. If you have never taken these substances you don't even know what hallucination means.

I've actually always hated the world hallucination because it almost labels it as a fake image intruding into the brain. When you take drugs like these you dont see clowns and monsters and ghosts appearing before you, you see the same world but with a different perception. I can't explain it to you if you haven't tried it so I am not even going to bother. You can't fully understand what a psychedelic hallucination is unless you have experienced it and you don't know what perception really means unless you have experienced a truly different one.

The point is if our brains are what makes us special, and there are naturally occuring substances that effect it's perception dramatically, why would you ignore something like that? Your missing a very mysterious and spiritual experience if you have not tried these.

The 'hallucinations' (which are merely extremely focused optical illusions caused by enhances focus on pattern) are not really the main focus, but rather the intense emotional/spiritual feeling along with enhanced sensory perception and speedy philosophical thinking that makes these substances so special. You realize the beauty in everything around you and feel a sense of overall understanding or enlightenment.

That is really how it all ties in, and if you don't believe me or don't understand what I'm saying it is because you haven't experienced it and there is only one way to really know.

I'm not trying to seem like I am so smart and have it all figured out, but I know how important consciousness is to our entire existance, and so did the maya.

Its nice to find others who share this view! I too really hate those who look down upon all drugs as something bad, and the whole thing about hallucinations that you said really resonated with me. If we weren't imprinted with all these negative vibes surrounding psychadelics i think less people would lose their mind, and more would have an enlightening moment. Its funny how even today "bad drugs" like LSD and DMT can actually be used only once on a person to help them give up addictive habits, and that it actually does work!

As you said, the fact that our brains have the receptors for these drugs suggests something. I've always found it odd how some natives knew how to combine two plants to release DMT... i find it hard to believe it was just trial and error. I think they were imparted with the knowledge that these plants were sacred by something/one else. The Cannabis plant even looks very alien, and also is the only plant to demonstrate sexes in phenotypes (different sexual parts), and not just genetically.

The whole "going crazy" from drugs, IMHO, is because these powerful drugs actually open the mind (and chakras) to more information/energy than we are privy too on a normal day to day basis, unless you happen to be a very advanced Shaman lol. If you don't know how to handle this info, it will send you crazy. If your not sure with your state of mind, it will mess you up. Luckily ive seen both sides of the coin, and now that i have i don;t think i can ever lose the state of mind i have right now. I know that fear is all in the mind, and that fear arises out of darkness, or in other words, knowledge that is hidden/not been revealed to you yet.

Again, i don't think drugs provide a shortcut to nirvana, nor do i encourage anyone to try them. All they do is hold a mirror up to yourself, and what your connected too...and if your not ready to handle these truths, don't do it.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
Again, i don't think drugs provide a shortcut to nirvana, nor do i encourage anyone to try them. All they do is hold a mirror up to yourself, and what your connected too...and if your not ready to handle these truths, don't do it.

Good words of caution. The drugs that open up your mind also have a nasty habit of bringing what is currently the focus of your background thought to the forefront and it just sits in front of your face.. People that haven't figured out the power of negativity in their life, or others that are in a depressed state will have a terrible time on these drugs. I think that's the reason why governments and such have had a reason to control or outlaw them, people just aren't responsible with their actions, and it's much easier to blame a severely depressed person's suicide on the drug of choice found at the time of death then it is accept that person had alot of "issues" in their head and couldn't deal with them properly when they were in full force.

Done with my rant on that.

I would be willing to bet that the single term "2012" brought a large number of people to this forum... It's been thrown around so often and there are so many theories on it.

My personal opinion is that it won't be the time the world ends, but that a large change will occur around that time frame. I'm not being hopeful of aliens landing or the world becoming enlightened over a 3 day period, but I do think that we have so many large scale topics that are at a seemingly bursting point. I think that this year holds alot of answers for us as to where our attention is desired for upcoming events, and where "they" want our attention is not necessarily where we should be looking for answers...........

Sigh... 2012 is a rhetorical circle...