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The "THEY" in "They did it."

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posted on Mar, 2 2007 @ 06:00 PM
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Reading through the ample information being provided by the 9/11 Truth Movement these days, I've been a little discouraged by the fact that many "researchers" have compiled nice timelines describing the 9/11 operation, but have failed to truly connect the dots regarding the full operation.

I decided to create a visual that contains everyone who was behind 9/11 and the basic relationships they had through the course of the operation.

Every individual and agency named here has been implicated in the 9/11 operation by the Truth Movement at some point.





My conservative estimate is that a minimum of 200 people played an integral part in the success of the 9/11 operation according to most theories.

200 people can't drive down a highway without an accident, the idea that all these people could work together to produce the event and coverup of 9/11 is hard to swallow.

Can anyone, with a straight face, look at that chart and tell me that they really believe that there were that many players?

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Essedarius]




posted on Mar, 2 2007 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by Essedarius
Can anyone, with a straight face, look at that chart and tell me that they really believe that there were that many players?

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Essedarius]


So what your saying is our well trained special ops people could not pull off 911 but 19 people with little training could ?



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
So what your saying is our well trained special ops people could not pull off 911 but 19 people with little training could ?


No, what I'm saying is that 19 people with little training pulling off 9/11 is much more likely than 200+ pulling it off in perfectly choreographed secrecy. Honestly, I don't see how it could be argued otherwise.

It's simply too complex.
Synchronization of everything that is claimed would be, without a doubt, impossible.

I'm not saying that something odd didn't happen.
But unless the Truth Movement "trims the fat", it will never be taken seriously. Ever.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by Essedarius
No, what I'm saying is that 19 people with little training pulling off 9/11 is much more likely than 200+ pulling it off in perfectly choreographed secrecy. Honestly, I don't see how it could be argued otherwise.

It's simply too complex.
Synchronization of everything that is claimed would be, without a doubt, impossible.

I'm not saying that something odd didn't happen.
But unless the Truth Movement "trims the fat", it will never be taken seriously. Ever.


So, because the truth movement has some "fat", solely because of that everything
they say will not be taken seriously.
Even the things which are not concidered "fat" and proves in one way or another
complictity from the Government and/or other parties.

Solely because of a few inconsistencies and incomplete theories/facts all of it
must be bull# is basically what you imply by that... And only because of that
it should all be ignored and not elaborated further on.. Great strategy.

And THIS what you describe is EXACTLY what the media do on purpose, they
pick the most ridiculous "theories" (or scams morelikely) to elaborate further
on to discredit the valid arguments available which are ALOT more convincing
than the garbage about pods, no planes, and special weaponry used etc.

"200+ pulling it off in perfectly choreographed secrecy."
What makes you think/speculate it takes at least 200?

I think this figure Essedarius posted shows how little people would even have
to know about the 'bigger picture', only a few know it 'all', information based
on a "need to know" basis is passed down through the 'ranks'. Thats how this crap works.

[edit]
And also, you do not deny something "odd" happened, but this, combined
with the "non fat" marked "evidence" is not enough to investigate further
and take serious the allegations made by the "Truth movement"?
Instead you believe the "fat arguments" are enough to suppress the "non fat"
arguments and blatantly ignore it?

[edit on 3-3-2007 by zren]



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Essedarius
No, what I'm saying is that 19 people with little training pulling off 9/11 is much more likely than 200+ pulling it off in perfectly choreographed secrecy. Honestly, I don't see how it could be argued otherwise.

It's simply too complex.
Synchronization of everything that is claimed would be, without a doubt, impossible.

I'm not saying that something odd didn't happen.
But unless the Truth Movement "trims the fat", it will never be taken seriously. Ever.


So if it only took 19 terrorist to pull it off i guess all you have to prove is that the 19 terrorist were foreign terrorost and not domestic terrorist.

Maybe you can explain if it only took 19 poeple why would the government need 200.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 09:42 AM
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Great job on your list. I could not agree with you more. Several times I wanted to sit and create something like what you accomplished here.

I agree there were several oddities regarding the day. Simply put.... to cover it up would be impossible.

Thanks again





[edit on 3-3-2007 by CameronFox]



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by CameronFox


Simply put.... to cover it up would be impossible.



But it's not been covered up. It's more like people don't care when things come up, like Able Danger, Sandy Berger, etc. This stuff is out in the open, as well as the burying of the stories.

Actually, this touches on a very interesting concept. What's the definition of a "cover up?" It seems that what this means from a practical sense is that the major networks don't focus on the story.

And if the Senate Judiciary committee isn't allowed to question military intelligence officers about what they knew, then how would relevant information ever become public? If the 9/11 Commission buries witness testimony, then by definition the information those witnesses would have provided is "covered-up."

At the very least, there has been a widespread "cover-up" of institutional incompetence. Why? Because those who are responsible for the incompetence are they same people investigating it, for example, Jamie Gorelick.

So when you have a group of people who have reasons to hide their own incompetence, or the incompetence of their connected frieds, it's not a far stretch to imagine that willful and complicit acts might also be covered up in the process. In other words, not a single person in Washington D.C. benefits by exposing any substantial failings of government organizations re 9/11.

What this means is that in effect, the general public has no idea what portions of the official story are true, and which are fairy tales to help people reach their political ends. We now have Lee Hamilton on Sandy Berger's payroll, and I'll take a wild guess that Jamie Gorelick still figures prominently in the Democratic establishment. It wouldn't surprise me is named the Attorney General in 2009.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by CameronFox

I agree there were several oddities regarding the day. Simply put.... to cover it up would be impossible.

Thanks again

[edit on 3-3-2007 by CameronFox]


Please explain how it would be impossible to cover special ops up, we do it all the time. Thier are special ops people in the field as we speak doing things that we will probly not know about for a long time or may never know about.

You might want to learn more about something before just posting about something you know little about.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 02:56 PM
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Whilst I admire the work you put into producing the chart, the thing that it doesn't show is who knew what.

Sure, 200 agencies and individuals may have been involved; I know most of the NY fire departments were involved, but that does not mean any one of them knew what was actually happening.

Good job for linking it together, sadly over-shadowed by the lack of explanation for how they linked together.


Take the following example:

My neighbors house is on fire and a smoking pile of rubble. I call the fire dept and say that it was caused by an explosion.

As far as the fire department know, it was an explosion, so come equipped as necessary to deal with it.

What actually happened was I set fire to it and then rammed a digger through the front wall, and hid the digger before making the call. Because I run said fire department and the local police, they never get to do an investigation to find the cause because I keep putting barriers in the way. No-one finds out that I actually knocked it down.

Sound familiar?

[edit on 3-3-2007 by mirageofdeceit]



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by CameronFox

I agree there were several oddities regarding the day. Simply put.... to cover it up would be impossible.

Thanks again

[edit on 3-3-2007 by CameronFox]


Please explain how it would be impossible to cover special ops up, we do it all the time. Thier are special ops people in the field as we speak doing things that we will probly not know about for a long time or may never know about.

You might want to learn more about something before just posting about something you know little about.



Hey Rambo -

A special ops project is one thing... killing 3 thousand Americans with Hijacked airplanes is another...

1. Hire and train 19 Muslim Highjackers just so they will die for an American cause. (unless you buy into the remote control planes, holograms, or they didnt know that the plane were going to be crashed)

2. Plant explosives in at least 3 buildings to demolish them. Thousands of pounds of explosives. (unless you buy into the Thermate or jellied thermate.) I suggest Ultima you learn a little about how thermate would have to be used if indeed that is what you believe. If it WAS explosives, you need to have MANY people in on it planting explosives in SEVERAL areas and UNDETECTED by the security dogs. I guess there could be secret ops dogs too that arent REALLY bomb sniffers...just nice doggies that walk around pretendign to be doing their job.

3. Have the entire FDNY in on it as well since they were all around WTC7 and are key witnesses to the damage, fire, and collaspe.

4. Oh... should be go into Jack 'wrong flight path' Trippers hysterical Pentacon movie into all this... if so lets add another hundred or so special ops guys to plant all the light poles and airplane and DNA debris.



I suggest you take a good look at the map in the OP and look at it CAREFULLY. Then THINK...

It would not take hundreds..it would take thousands.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

So if it only took 19 terrorist to pull it off i guess all you have to prove is that the 19 terrorist were foreign terrorost and not domestic terrorist.

Maybe you can explain if it only took 19 poeple why would the government need 200.


Why Ultima...you don't think 19 men could do something this big did ya?
You know it took 2 men to blow up 2 American embassies in 1998. 2 men just to blow up a state of the art destroyer in 2000. Why can't it take 19 men to hijack 4 planes and attack 3 buildings in 2001?



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 09:07 PM
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Essedarius you need to have the Port Authority on your list because many of them would have had to been complicit as well.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
Why Ultima...you don't think 19 men could do something this big did ya?
You know it took 2 men to blow up 2 American embassies in 1998. 2 men just to blow up a state of the art destroyer in 2000. Why can't it take 19 men to hijack 4 planes and attack 3 buildings in 2001?


Oh i know less then 19 could do it. I was questioning why it would take 200.



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by CameronFox
Hey Rambo -

A special ops project is one thing... killing 3 thousand Americans with Hijacked airplanes is another...

1. Hire and train 19 Muslim Highjackers just so they will die for an American cause. (unless you buy into the remote control planes, holograms, or they didnt know that the plane were going to be crashed)

2. Plant explosives in at least 3 buildings to demolish them. Thousands of pounds of explosives. (unless you buy into the Thermate or jellied thermate.) I suggest Ultima you learn a little about how thermate would have to be used if indeed that is what you believe. If it WAS explosives, you need to have MANY people in on it planting explosives in SEVERAL areas and UNDETECTED by the security dogs. I guess there could be secret ops dogs too that arent REALLY bomb sniffers...just nice doggies that walk around pretendign to be doing their job.

3. Have the entire FDNY in on it as well since they were all around WTC7 and are key witnesses to the damage, fire, and collaspe.

4. Oh... should be go into Jack 'wrong flight path' Trippers hysterical Pentacon movie into all this... if so lets add another hundred or so special ops guys to plant all the light poles and airplane and DNA debris.



I suggest you take a good look at the map in the OP and look at it CAREFULLY. Then THINK...

It would not take hundreds..it would take thousands.





How many people died at Pearl Harbor ?

1. Well i could bring up the fact that we have no actual physical evidence it was 19 terrorist. I mean we have no airport video of them getting on the planes. Oh and do not forget things like the terrorist that was supposed to be flight 77 is alive.

2. What is so hard about planting explosives or pulling down buildings it was done that day and the following days. Remember building 6 ?

3. Your the only one saying the FDNY was in on it.

4. Do you have any evidence from the flight data recorder from the Pentagon that supports the official story ?



posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 10:11 PM
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A special ops project is one thing... killing 3 thousand Americans with Hijacked airplanes is another...

For you yes. But not for trained brainwashed special ops. You wouldn't kill your children, some people do it. You wouldn't be working in a concentration camp, some people did and they were happy with it.

There a concept you need to understand, and that is DENIAL of certains things you cannot accept to live with it or just pure control freaks. Those people exists, and they are at the top echelons. Wake up.

There are many examples in history where government is killing their own people for various reasons without being ashamed of that. The new HPV vaccine and the CPS grabing children for no existing laws are ones of them.

[edit on 3-3-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by CameronFox

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by CameronFox

I agree there were several oddities regarding the day. Simply put.... to cover it up would be impossible.

Thanks again

[edit on 3-3-2007 by CameronFox]


Please explain how it would be impossible to cover special ops up, we do it all the time. Thier are special ops people in the field as we speak doing things that we will probly not know about for a long time or may never know about.

You might want to learn more about something before just posting about something you know little about.



2. Plant explosives in at least 3 buildings to demolish them. Thousands of pounds of explosives. (unless you buy into the Thermate or jellied thermate.) I suggest Ultima you learn a little about how thermate would have to be used if indeed that is what you believe. If it WAS explosives, you need to have MANY people in on it planting explosives in SEVERAL areas and UNDETECTED by the security dogs. I guess there could be secret ops dogs too that arent REALLY bomb sniffers...just nice doggies that walk around pretendign to be doing their job.



That has already been explained by the fact that large people were temporarly moved and the surveillance system shut down a few weeks prior to 9/11.

Also what I don't understand is, even if it did take hundreds of people to pull it off why would it be so hard for them to cover it up?

[edit on 4-3-2007 by NegativeBeef]



posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by NegativeBeef
Also what I don't understand is, even if it did take hundreds of people to pull it off why would it be so hard for them to cover it up?


It usually goes something like this:

Official Story Guy: "People would have come forward already"
Conspiracy Nut: "But they have, and the media dont give them all too much attention."
Official Story Guy: "oh please, i have seen them on cnn and also fox a few times claiming these absurd things."
Conspiracy Nut: "Becuase the talkshow host made fun of them it may have appeared that way yes, they are attacked the second they come into the show."

etc.etc. and the above just ends up in an endless loop really..



posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 07:53 AM
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Ultima in response to your questions:


How many people died at Pearl Harbor ?

Navy 1998
Marine Corps 109
Army 233
Civilian 48



1. Well i could bring up the fact that we have no actual physical evidence it was 19 terrorist. I mean we have no airport video of them getting on the planes. Oh and do not forget things like the terrorist that was supposed to be flight 77 is alive.

i suggest you look into the claims that some of the terrorists are still alive. I believe that flight 77 the flight attendant gave the seat numbers of WHERE the highjackers came from.

2. What is so hard about planting explosives or pulling down buildings it was done that day and the following days. Remember building 6 ?

What is so hard about it? Can you tell me what the largest building (on record) that has ever been demolished via C.D.?Just in case you do not know.. The Hudson Building is the largest single building ever imploded In all there were 33 levels in the structure...allow me to add the specifics on how that building was imploded:


CDI’s 12 person loading crew took twenty four days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on columns on nine levels of the complex. Over 36,000 ft of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements were installed in CDI’s implosion initiation system, some to create the 36 primary implosion sequence and another 216 micro-delays to keep down the detonation overpressure from the 2,728 lb of explosives which would be detonated during the demolition.
www.controlled-demolition.com...


Building 6 was brought down with CABLES. Explosives were not used.


3. Your the only one saying the FDNY was in on it.
I am saying if you believe that WTC7 was a CD, then you have to assume the FDNY was in on it. There is no way you have hundreds of guys standing around a building (around the safe zone) and not notice anything. Also, if your going to still insist Silverstein had anything to do with it...he WAS talking to the FDNY Chief at the time.

4. Do you have any evidence from the flight data recorder from the Pentagon that supports the official story ?
What part of the story are you asking me about?



posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by CameronFox
i suggest you look into the claims that some of the terrorists are still alive. I believe that flight 77 the flight attendant gave the seat numbers of WHERE the highjackers came from.

What is so hard about it? Can you tell me what the largest building (on record) that has ever been demolished via C.D.?Just in case you do not know.. The Hudson Building is the largest single building ever imploded In all there were 33 levels in the structure...allow me to add the specifics on how that building was imploded:


CDI’s 12 person loading crew took twenty four days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on columns on nine levels of the complex. Over 36,000 ft of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements were installed in CDI’s implosion initiation system, some to create the 36 primary implosion sequence and another 216 micro-delays to keep down the detonation overpressure from the 2,728 lb of explosives which would be detonated during the demolition.
www.controlled-demolition.com...


1. If you look at this site you will see that the terrorist who was supopsed to be on flight 77 in seat 12A is still alive.

www.trackingthethreat.com...

2. As stated several times, it only takes a long time to set up explosives if you worried about protecting other builidings. If you are not worried about protecting other buildings it does not take long to do a demo. You also might want to look at the radio transcripts from the firemen who made it to the impact floors stated that the walls on several floors had been breached.



posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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Let's see, the Manhattan project had over 150,000 people working on it at its peak, over 500,000 people had intimate knowledge of the project. Yet, somehow something this complex, which is obviously impossible to keep secret, remained top secret until we dropped the bombs on japan.

For about four years, every major corporation and university in america was involved in the project.

Lets see, who knew?

DoE
NSA
CIA
ARMY
ACoE
AEC
OSRD
Los Alamos National Labs
Oak Ridge
Lawrence Livermore National Labs
Columbia University
University of Chicago
University of California
Oxford University
Lockheed Martin

Harry C. Anderson John Hopkins University
Capt. John A. Anthes U.S. Engineer, Madison Square Area
Dr. W.D. Armstrong University of Minnesota
Dr. David B. Ast Dental Hygiene, State of New York
Dr. A.N. Benning Du Pont de Nemours Co.
Lt. O.P. Bergelin Wilmington Area
Dr. B.S. Bibby Tufts Dental School
Capt. E.B. Brown U.S. Engineer, Madison Square Area
Fred A. Bryan University of Rochester
Herbert O. Calvery Food and Drug Administration
Graham Cook Columbia Area
James E. Curran Kellex Corporation
W.E. Crutchfield, Jr. Merck & Company
Dr. A.G. Cranch Union Carbide and Carbon Company
Dr. Peter P. Dale University of Rochester
Dr. H. Dean National Institute of Health
J.M.A. duBruyne Bell Telephone Company
Dr. L.T. Fairhall National Institute of Health
Joseph T. Faust District Safety Section
Dr. Chas. M. Fehr Pennsylvannia Salt Company
Capt. J.L. Ferry U.S. Engineer, Manhattan District
S.B. Finn New York State Dept. of Health
Robert D. Fowler Columbia Area
Dr. Francis C. Frary Aluminum Company of America
Frank J. Giaccio Kellex Corporation
Elroy M. Gladrow Iowa State College
L.L. Hedgepeth Pennsylvania Salt Company
Dr. Francis F. Heyroth Kettering Laboratory
Dr. Harold C. Hodge Rochester University
Dr. Edward J. Largent Kettering Laboratory
H.B. McCauley U.S. Engineer, Rochester Area
T.J. McKinzie Kellex Corporation
Dr. Paul A. Neal National Institute of Health
Dr. J.J. Nickson University of Chicago
John J. Prendergast Chrysler Corporation
Dr. R. Rosen Kellex Corporation
Dr. H.H. Schrenk Bureau of Mines
S.C. Schuman Kellex Corporation
Dr. J.H. Sterner Tennessee Eastman
S. Warren Stetler District Safety Section
Dr. H.E. Stokinger University of Rochester
George M. Suter University of Rochester
Dr. C.F. Swinehart Harshaw Chemical Company
Ann T. Tarbell University of Rochester
Harold E. Thayer Mallinckrodt Electrochemical Co.
John Turkevice Princeton University
Robert A.N. Turner, Jr. Du Pont de Nemours Co.
Les Van Orden Kellex Corporation
Dr. Carl Vogtlin University of Rochester
Col. S.L. Warren U.S. Engineers, Manhattan District
Carrol S. Weil University of Rochester
Richard S. Weiss Mallinckrodt Electrochemical Co.


Look at the sites where they worked on it!! All over the country!
en.wikipedia.org...:Manhattan_Project_US_Map.png

[edit on 3/4/2007 by sp00n1]



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