The Real Masonic Conspiracy!

Ok ...

So I had just got done reading a few post.. and I realized that either I am confused, or anti-Masons are confused.. or maybe we are both confused...

But what is the Masonic conspiracy? .. Why do you claim there even is a conspiracy? How has this conspiracy effected you? .. And I think the most important question to ask your self.. who made Masons out to be the "bad guys"?

Masonry got its bad reputation as a satanic anti-Christian cult from the Roman Catholic Church, they where frowned upon by Church leaders, protestant leaders and the general public. The secrecy of the fraternity has been brought into speculation, and the intentions questioned heavily. But why?

First.. the Church.. the single most devastating human force ever brought upon the Earth. Millions have died at its hands in the name of God. In the name of God, murder, rape, pillaging, conquest, destruction, illiteracy, tyrants, suppression of civil rights has been brought on innocent people for over 2,000 years. Women have been suppressed by its cruel translations of the Bible, women have been burned at the stake for heresy and witch craft, hundreds of thousands of men walked to their death in holy wars, entire nations sovereignty has been stricken away by the Pope, taxed and suppressed.

The Church at one point controlled all the European realms, through black mail, treachery, deceit and puppet monarchs.

Yet they proclaimed Masonry to be "evil" though it professes no such "evil" teaching, you could say Masonry was one of the most liberal organizations of the time, and surly ahead of their age in their thoughts and practices. Masonry teaches that there was another way to God without the aid of the infallible Pope and the Church, but through your own personal actions, how you live your life and helped you obtain that.

So why the secrecy? Firstly, I would not consider Masonry Secret in any way, they are not a secret society, they may be a secret society with secrets, but not a secret society, and there is a difference. There are two main reasons for the secrecy, in my opinion, through my own personal reading. Both have to do with persecution. The Church declared the Craft to be an enemy from day one, never seeing eye to eye with them, the Church had power beyond power.. if they wanted someone dead be sure, he died. The fraternity could have been hunted down in public, in their homes, on their way to work, in their make shift lodges (before the time of the Grand Lodge) so a way of recognition would have proved to be a safe way to be sure people of ill intent would not infiltrate the lodge and harm its members. Masonry has always been proud of its past, we keep things the same as much as possible and change as little as we can to keep it in the pure state that it was when the Grand Lodge was founded. If they where secret then, then keep the modes of recognition and use it in a "enlightenment" fashion of the day and age, applying moral values and life meaning to symbolic acts.

The other reason for secrecy is that Masonry may be descended from Templar, you should all know the tales, but if it where in fact true, an outlawed organization could hardly meet publicly and declare their lodges with all the country seeing them.. it would have to be done in secret to continue on with their ways and, as read above, self protection from the "Holy" Church.

So tell me.. how is it an organization founded for truth, honesty, brotherhood and light, one that rose out of the mist and took on the Catholic Church, that has brought forth some of the most powerful thinkers in history, including the men who signed the declaration of independence, brining forth this nation.. are treated no better then petty criminals?

And tell me, what is wrong with having the most influential thinkers pass through the brotherhood? .. Tell me, do these men not come from somewhere else if not the brotherhood? .. Would they not have been representatives to the Church of England, a Church founded to further the power of the King, or from the Catholic Church, who’s influence, greed and corruption has infected many states before us? .. and could they not have been from any other Christian group furthering an agenda? ..

Maybe it is not Masonry that puts great men into power, but rather, great men are attracted to what Masonry offers?

So tell me, each of you who wish to reply, what is your basis for declaring Masonry evil? .. Disregarding speculative and ilbased opinions, where is the facts?

Here is another thing.. if Masonry wanted to take over anything, they would have done so along time ago when they had more power and more influence... but why bother? .. What would Masons get from controlling the country? .. Just another theoretical tyranny that they opposed, and created the Free system with religious regulations regarding Church and State just so Theoretical tyrants couldn't rape the rights of the people. How is it so many people have fallen into the trap of thinking Masonry "evil"

And why must there always be a conspiracy? .. Why is it the Presidents actions are dictated by eerie men behind the scenes, always conspiring plots against average Joe? .. Was Caesar a conspiracy? .. Was Napoleon a conspiracy? Hitler, Stalin, Queen Elizabeth, Church hill, how about the Prime minister of Australia, Canada or the leader of Kazakhstan? ... are all leaders fake puppets of the "conspirers" and there is in fact no truth at all in this world? .. Leaders do horrific acts, they do selfish, stupid things.. but only because the Human mind is capable of thinking up the most disturbing ways to deal with issues, there is no greater evil then that which resides in any mans thoughts. Bush does not need people to tell him to go F-up some where in the world.. believe me he is fully capable to do it himself. You may say, but people benefits, people profit? Someone profits from anything that the government does. If we where at peace, some one would profit, if we are at war, some one profits. In the 1990's - what some call a golden age for America, so many, many people prospered and made their millions, and billions.. and then we go to war.. and different people prosper.. then the war will end, and someone will prosper in peace time once again.. the President holds little control over the economy.. and the government has always misplaced funds, even people, done stupid things that make you step back and scratch your head... but why do we say that when something bad happens.. its a conspiracy? And why the Masons? .. how do Masons benefit from wars and the like? .. Honestly.. perplexing..

And why only bad? Why is it when we go to war it is a conspiracy.. but when we are at peace its nothing?

Why are the Masons not given credit for ending wars and only making them? Why are Masons not given credit for any good they do, just speculate on anything you don't understand and cannot "see" .. Why is it Masons want to "control" the world.. and people have to fight against us? Why can't it be that the first true liberator of the free peoples, the Masons, are not given credit for perhaps keeping the "nwo" at bay? .. Why do people think the conspiracy is we fight against human rights when we where one of the first advocators? Why do people say we worship Satan when not all members are "Christian" .. I am not Christian.. I believe in God.. I do not believe in "hell" or the "devil" .. so what the bloody hell am I supposed to worship? I guess they just don't call me when they go sacrifice goats to Satan right?

Do rich people control the world?

You betcha they do. Always have, always will. They are grand, you are meager. That is our ways, in every society, in every country since before time. Even the cave men. Biggest stick wins. Are all rich people Masons? No. Are there rich Masons? Yes. Are there rich Catholics, Baptist, Mormons, Evangelicals, Jews, Muslims? Yes. Do they "control the world" to? No? Why not? So there is no doubt that rich people control the world.. and I can assure you that rich folks come in every creed and color, of any nationality, they do not need a fraternity to progress their own agendas..... that’s what money is for.

The simple fact is this.. the flaw behind the entire Masonic conspiracy is the fact that logic says it can't be so. It does not add up, does not make sense, serves no purpose, unfounded, no proof, no reason. Oh. And it is impossible to control the world

-

look at history.

Where are all the anti-Masons?

No replies if there is not some outrageous claims of world domination or other obcene tales?

Rockpuck - (The Catholic),

It seems that you approach these giant questions from a very logical point of view but you also are hoping for an answer that might be easier to digest. The truth, if you are truly interested is not easy and not pleasant and you are not too far off in your honest attempt to defend Freemasonry.

However, I sense you are starting to doubt yourself and hoping for someone well versed into the occult to somehow shine the light of truth into all this confusion. It seems your post is calling out for some sort of, almost retribution and an attempt to have yourself proven incorrect. If you are truly a Catholic as you have mentioned elsewhere, then you certainly have a very open-minded approach toward supporting Freemasonry and at the same time, mentioning the errors of the Catholic Church.

I am willing to assist you but it will not be easy to grasp with all the derailing that will soon follow.

Ohhh... no, no, no... how you do misunderstand me my friend. I can assure you seek no "enlightenment" of any sorts into the "occult" from the likes of you or any one else, I can assure you I know plenty. I would advise however that instead of looking into subjects with an arrogant mindset and childish ideas you try and look at it from the logical spectrum of things, as, the truth is most often laid before your very nose.

Do not however come before me declaring my inept knowledge and your superior intellect. I am not defending anything per say, I am putting forth the questions that you would know the answer to, but do not answer, surely not because you lack the knowledge to do so right? Your reply lacked the educated response I intend, I want to know how, in logical terms, someone can find a conspiracy in Masonry (or anything for that matter) in relation to "secret" societies.

So instead of declaring your arrogant attitude and thinking I am in some way lacking knowledge in the "occult" or anything for that matter, especially history, and do not underestimate logic.

And I think it needs to be presented to you once more friend. I do not need your "assistance" in any matter what so ever, while you may see your self somewhere high and mighty, I see the opposite.

The nerve...


And you have a problem with me being Catholic? I am a Catholic, and I am very opened minded, which puts me at odds with my Church, among other things, though I do not see my personal religious beliefs to be any of your business, though I will strongly advise you not to think you know me, because you definitely do NOT.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

But what is the Masonic conspiracy?

Knows Aim is No Same.

knows aim.

Rockpuck,

Sorry to hear that you have chosen to decline my offer to get into a deep discussion. I hope you do find what it is you are 'really' looking for. Sorry to have bothered you.

Sweft

Good post Rock. I am something of a conspiracy theorist and this ironically led me to Freemasonry. After long and thorough investigation I found that masons were not in charge of the world There are fundamentalist Christian sites that bandy about the same bunch of accusations that on the surface look pretty awful. A little investigation showed me that they that they were all the result of misquoted books, misunderstood concepts and general ignorance of masonry. I agree with you on the 'money'. Those in control are the rich. Greed is a powerful force and they will utilize any religion, corporation, culture, country or fraternity to further their aims. So it is possible that dark and evil rich dudes hide some of their activities with masonry. Our symbols and traditions are not copyrighted so there is no way to stop them from pasting them all over their handiwork. But 99.99% of masons are pretty lowly normal guys. They tend to by quite patriotic and pretty firm in their Christian beliefs (in my lodge). They are a great bunch of guys but sometimes they have difficulty organizing a dinner "You brought brownies? I thought I was supposed to bring them. Where is the beer?"

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Knows Aim is No Same.

knows aim.

Ya...hmm... I don't get it... Even Google doesn't get it

People fear the unknown, and yearn for answers when they have none. The unknown is attacked because it is feared, and when there appears that the entity has some fair amount of power or influence then that power only raises the fear. It is common to see historical accounts of people destroying that which they did not understand, and in which they saw power. It is less common to see cases where the people chose to learn and accept whatever they feared and didn't understand. It is also a fair assumption that secrecy is designed to hide nefarious actions, and that if they were not up to no good, there is no need to hide. Freemasons are no longer very secretive, and the literature on them is abundant now. So, I see no reason why the things that they are known to do which are benefitting society, such as the Shriner's hospitals, are so often dismissed as irrelevent to the question of their propriety. It seems like a lot to do if it is just a cover. They could do much less and they could also promote their good deeds far more, but they do not.
I see no conspiracy, and find that the idea that those in power work together secretly to retain their power to be expected, and hard to imagine not being done. It would surprise me if they didn't. Conspiracy theorists far too often believe baseless accusations as being factual, when they are no more than someone's conjecture. Example: The Illuminati, subject of countless theories. Where is the proof? Amazingly, despite hundreds of books about them, and countless theories about their deeds, there is nothing behind any of it. It is a world wide, unproven, and yet gigantic fear-based rumour. I don't even believe they exist and won't till someone offers at least one solid bit of proof. That is even though I have read many books about them for over ten years now. None of them had proof I found credible. If someone feels an eye on a dollar bill is proof, fine, but I don't. I need more than that to be convinced. It is incredible to me the depth of this particular gossip circle...

See, Rockpuck, there was this thread about the top ten traits of a "cult"... I was member of such a cult once and am not likely to join one again. I understand that Freemasonry is not a "cult" in the sense of the word, rather a brotherhood for like-minded people. So, what we have here is, in my opinion, the product of a little understood natural law of attraction. If you love chess, you may want to join a chess club. If you love music, you're likely to join a band. You want to change the world? You join a political party, or a movement. Want to deny ignorance? Sign up to ATS.

So, practically, as a mason, you are member of a society within society. You still aren't "out of this world", but have things that seperate you from the rest, giving you the social feeling of belonging, like-mindedness, friendship, being - if not superior, at least: special. All forms of societies tend to organize hierarchically, pyramidically. You have a chiefs and presidents and heads and all that sort of stuff, and the "higher" your rank, the greater your sphere of influence - and the less "peers" you have. For example, you have members, writers, SMJEs, moderators, supermods, admins and amigos on ATS; priests, bishops and popes in the church, mayors, governors, senators and presidents in your country. I would be very surprised if you told me that the Lodges make an exception to the rule and there's a flat hierarchy; since I don't know much about masonry, I can't tell if there really are 33 "degrees" as you step up that ladder. You may know more about this, and give me some insight whether you're voted bottom-up or chosen top-down to ascend.

You may also agree that as you ascend, your "power" rises - suddenly, your words matter more than before. Not that your vote counts twice, it's more a psychological thing - you're more respected and trusted to know what you're talking about. You may be introduced to new tasks, procedures and insights by your new "peers", and at some point you're so "above" the rest of the members that there are things they better not know about: that's why there are hidden forums on ATS, congregations for elders only in most sects, hidden libraries under the Vatican, secret services in every country, "summits" for the leaders of our countries where the public isn't allowed. If it's different in freemason circles, please enlighten me.


To sum it all up: people have a reason to fear the unknown, because they feel decisions are made over their heads - and not always for the benefit of their own. And that's where the definition for "evil" comes into play - it is not good, because if it were good, these decisions would sooner or later establish a "better world" without artificial famines, wars and diseases. And since there are so many rumors about high-ranking free-masons having a say in the order of this world, it's not a surprise that freemasonry has a bad reputation. The aims are good, as all aims are formulated to be good for society and mankind; be it christianity, communism, capitalism, democracy, monarchy or ParEcon.

But as individuals rise in power, they tend to cherry-pick what is good for them and are corrupted or sometimes lured to make decisions that do more harm than good for those that they promised to defend and protect. If they don't, if they stick to what they know and feel to be rightful, they are unlikely to be selected from higher up and never get their share of power to steer the world into a better position.

This is the conspiracy, this is what the pyramid is all about.

[edit on 3-3-2007 by Akareyon]

Akareyon,

That was an excellent post, and you got my first vote of the month for Way Above.

I really don't have anything else to add to what you already said, except to answer your technical question:

since I don't know much about masonry, I can't tell if there really are 33 "degrees" as you step up that ladder. You may know more about this, and give me some insight whether you're voted bottom-up or chosen top-down to ascend.

The 33 degree system is a part of the Scottish Rite, which is only one of many branches of Masonry. Other Rites have different numbers of degrees.

In order to receive additional degrees, the individual Brother will turn in an application, called a petition, along with any fees or dues that may be owed. At the next business meeting, the petition is voted upon. If elected, the applicant will then receive the degrees that he has applied for.

If for any reason he is rejected, his dues and fees are returned.

That's how it works in theory, although it is extremely rare for a Master Mason in good standing to be denied the additional degrees that he has applied for.

That being said, let me point out that the various degrees do not confer rank or authority. Instead, in Masonry, rank and authority lies with the elected officials, regardless of what degrees they may or may not possess. It is not only possible, but very common, for a Third Degree Mason to outrank a 33° Scottish Rite Mason in Masonic authority.

Masonic officials are elected for fixed terms by the universal suffrage of the membership.

Good replies, thank you for them.

Akareyon:

Along with what Masonic Light said, I have only one other problem with your post, that being:

You said the heirachy has more to do with experience or how many degrees one has, and as you attain degrees you gain recognition, a reputation and more "power". I don't find that true at all, perhaps my situation is different and perhaps different lodges operate differently. The man who is sort of my Masonic mentor is a past master, he has been in for a while, he only got his 32nd degree in 2000 though and he is by far the most influential person in the lodge. What he says gets done, he has been known to advise the current worshipful master even. There are however plenty of people with more "experience" in the lodge, including members that have been in for 30+ years, one man is even the highest rank in York Rite that I cannot remember the name of for the life of me, but it is supposed to be equivalent to 33rd in Scottish Rite.

My point being is that sometimes you can join and be moved up the hierarchy in a very short amount of time, something they wish to do with me and I have only been a member for about 3 months or so. So while experience can give you a step up no doubt, the right connections, the right personality they help more in my opinion. Just because you are a member for 20 years does not make you a good leader, and sometimes good leaders come out of the blue and within a few years are running the lodge.

Just Google Video "Masons" you will see video after video on why masons are a big conspiracy....I think there is a secret society section on ATS about this whole ordeal. Geeeee, look it up. The info is here, you just have to look for it.

Originally posted by tator3
Just Google Video "Masons" you will see video after video on why masons are a big conspiracy.

Yup, Here is a good one

Bill Schnoebelen exposes the truth behind the secret club known as Freemasonry. A large percentage of Masons are kept in the dark on all purpose so the real agenda can be carried out. Bill exposes the intentions behind the images put forth by the Masons and Shriners.

Now Bill Schnoebelen was a self professed illuminati witch who wanted to be a satanic high priest, so they told him that he had to join masonry first, then become a catholic priest, and since he did it all correctly he had the honor of becoming a real blood-drinking vampire (as opposed to w a werewolf which he thought might be to painful). All this gave him so much power and wealth that he was able to live off the income of a newspaper route that he did at night (he had to work at night because the sun blistered his skin etc).
Though some anti-masonry videos are done a little better than this, they are all just making juicy 'Enquirer' type media that sells so reliably.

Originally posted by tator3
Just Google Video "Masons" you will see video after video on why masons are a big conspiracy....I think there is a secret society section on ATS about this whole ordeal. Geeeee, look it up. The info is here, you just have to look for it.

BUT ... do you not see it doesn't make sense? ANY ONE can make a video on anything, hell I can make a video on squirrels secretly building under ground bases for the government and SOMEONE will believe me.. because some people will believe anything. Surely you have something else to add then to say watch a google video? I have seen I would bet nearly EVERY video out there, like Redpill I was brought to Masonry by researching the conspiracies, for a short while believed them until I realized its just absurd...

Originally posted by RedPill

Now Bill Schnoebelen was a self professed illuminati witch who wanted to be a satanic high priest, so they told him that he had to join masonry first, then become a catholic priest, and since he did it all correctly he had the honor of becoming a real blood-drinking vampire (as opposed to w a werewolf which he thought might be to painful). All this gave him so much power and wealth that he was able to live off the income of a newspaper route that he did at night (he had to work at night because the sun blistered his skin etc).

You left out the part about demons taking him up on a UFO for an anal probe.

Must be some kind of conspiracy.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
ANY ONE can make a video on anything, hell I can make a video on squirrels secretly building under ground bases for the government

Dammit Rockpuck, you newbie Mason! Now you've let out our secret squirrel plan! I guess as the ranking Ultra-super-secret-double-probation-Mason here, I'll have to confiscate your decoder ring and blow up your toilet!