Unfounded globalization fears

If you've got 30-40 minutes, and don't mind two or three commercials from this tape of a radio show on Globalization, I don't think you'll be able to stop listening once you start:

www.wseg.org...

Just to let everyone know i'm the original author of this thread.My friend Seridium introduced me to ATS and I posted under his name.I'm very happy to have found such interesting debate and look forward to sparring with ATS members.

I have to agree with FlaBama 100% that we have never been given a say or vote regarding globalization.The whole process seems to have a shroud of darkness over it,but perhaps its partly due to the complexity of the entire issue.I wont disagree that the process is being used for some very un-noble purposes at the moment and probably for the forseeable future.But that doesn't devalue the idea in my opinion.I cannot belive that everyone involved in the process has the sole intensions of screwing the rest of humanity.I have confidence that there are people commited to the betterment of humanity as a whole,and of course I don't mean the idiots we see on tv.

As for giving up sovereignty that has been bled for,contimplate for a minute that if the role of the US forces is to defend its citizens and way of life from destruction,what if such an outcome could not be acheived through military action.What if military action could not win without destroying yourself anyway?Would you insist on fighting to the last man,as is considered honorable thing to do in some instances despite the death of your citizens?Or would choose to take the path that ensures survival for your people despite a loss of status.I'm afraid that the loss of status is the real fear first world citizens have.Nice to pretend we are all equal intelectually,but lets be honest that emotionally we don't feel equal to second and third world countrys.If we did we woudn't stand for the loss of life happening there every day.Besides FlaBama,if america ever had to surrender to a unjust system I'm sure that given enough time the people would do something about it revolution style.

[edit on 3-3-2007 by FreeSpeaker]

[edit on 3-3-2007 by FreeSpeaker]

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Just to let everyone know i'm the original author of this thread.My friend Seridium introduced me to ATS and I posted under his name.I'm very happy to have found such interesting debate and look forward to sparring with ATS members.

welcome to ATS, im sure we'll clash again.

I cannot belive that everyone involved in the process has the sole intensions of screwing the rest of humanity.

not everyone involved with globalization is on the "evil" side, just the people that actualy make the decisions and sit on the WTO board (again, appointed by no one, accountable to no one, and with no conflict of interest regulations.) Some people within the organization probably believe their helping human kind, but the fact is that glboablization has brought more misery to thrid world nations than good. The IMF is an organization dedicated to siphoning the wealth of a country upwards into the pockets of the corporate leaders and their comprador friends in government.

As for giving up sovereignty that has been bled for

Its happeneing already, it has been since NAFTA and GATT. simple case to look into is a chemical i mentioned already called MMT, look it up, see what you find.

,contimplate for a minute that if the role of the US forces is to defend its citizens and way of life from destruction,

Well this is a completely different can of worms but US forces are not around to protect US citizens. US forces are around and used for protecting capital enterprizes. Dont believe me? Think about Somalia, why did G.Bush SR send marines to help the starving somalians instead of sending peace core troops? Mainly because of the oil fields and potential capital to be extracted form that country. US intervention, counterinsurgancy, and counterrevolutionary forces are not in place to protect the freedoms of the average citizen, their in place to protect the overweening privildages of the upper class.

Would you insist on fighting to the last man,as is considered honorable thing to do in some instances despite the death of your citizens?

A nice notion, fighting for an honorable cause, can you single out an honorable cause in the last 50 years that US force has been involved in?

Or would choose to take the path that ensures survival for your people despite a loss of status.

The citizns are always asked to give up their way of life and their status to protect the lifestyles of the rich and owning class.

I'm afraid that the loss of status is the real fear first world citizens have

agreed, but who is more fearful of loosing what?

Nice to pretend we are all equal intelectually,but lets be honest that emotionally we don't feel equal to second and third world countrys.

Its amazing what centuries of imperialism and propaganda can do to the mentality of a countries citizenry. Thrid world countries arent stupid or underdeveloped, their OVER EXPLOITED.

If we did we woudn't stand for the loss of life happening there every day.

much of which we dont here about.

Besides FlaBama,if america ever had to surrender to a unjust system I'm sure that given enough time the people would do something about it revolution style.

Id like to think so, but i believe that democractic societies have been giving up their hard earned rights for decades in the name of convience and complancy.

Nice to pretend we are all equal intelectually

Nobody is pretending were are equal intelectually at all. Everyones education is at differnet levels.

but lets be honest that emotionally we don't feel equal to second and third world countrys.If we did we woudn't stand for the loss of life happening there every day

We are all human (Im assuming) and we are all the same. I feel that I am no better than anybody even those in the third world. I also feel nobody is better than me. We are all one.

As for standing for the loss of life, I give what I can to charities for those people and also sponser children through the WCO. Im not a Christian but donate to them as theres not very many charities running over there. Other than that I stand up for their rights at protests and gatherings in my area.

FreeSpeaker, I would really like to hear why you think those in the third world are not our equals, are they not humans too?

Originally posted by sardion2000
Just to note, Utopia literally means "No Place".

No, dictionary.reference.com...

yes,

[New Latin Ūtopia, imaginary island in Utopia by Sir Thomas More : Greek ou, not, no; see aiw- in Indo-European roots + Greek topos, place.]

from your source. (Bold Emphasis mine)

You misunderstand me Chronic_Blaze.I do think we are equal to the third world people.I'm saying i'm appalled by the loss of life in the third world countries because i understand our only difference is level of education.I like to think there are people living in the third world,and under repressive regimes,that are capable of great things given the oppertunity to learn and educate themselves.Who knows,the cure for cancer or aids could be held in a undeveloped mind somewhere out there.Thats why i support globalization,for the betterment of humanity.If science has been driven by first world countrys so far,imagine what we will acheive when the rest of the world catches up.
As for intelectualy accepting we are all equal,tell me the guys at the UN don't think all humans are equal with great conviction.Tell me then why millions died in Dafur before they intervined.In my opinion they just didn't care.Just another day in politics.In other words emotionally detached.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
because i understand our only difference is level of education.

I believe it has more to do with the relative level of democractic struggle vs represssive autocracy.

I like to think there are people living in the third world,and under repressive regimes,that are capable of great things given the oppertunity to learn and educate themselves.

I agree with this too, if only the repression they suffered was strictly mentally. Any competeing social or economic order is crushed with force and violence, with the purpose of stopping the people from educating themselves. Dont be fooled, these people arent "uneducated" by choice, their unenducated by force.

Thats why i support globalization,for the betterment of humanity.

I would still like you to elaborate on this point. I just dont see the justification for believing that globalization will infact, futher the human cause. IMO it is a hinderance.

As for intelectualy accepting we are all equal,tell me the guys at the UN don't think all humans are equal with great conviction.

IMO, many dont even think about the people of the third world. they think about the wealth they can extract from the land by any means.

Tell me then why millions died in Dafur before they intervined.

It doesnt serve their class interest to stop a war they many of the nations (leaders) are funding.

In my opinion they just didn't care.Just another day in politics.In other words emotionally detached.

Again, they dont care about the people, mainly because they dont think about the human cost. Its easier to justify economic sanctions and military intervention if there is no human face attached to the suffering those actions cause.

Thats why i support globalization,for the betterment of humanity

If the NWO comes to pass and they are put in total power of the world, what makes you think that thay will just stop exploiting those countries for their resources? They are the ones behind exploiting them now. If anything they will step it up a notch because there will be nobody to stop them.

Tell me then why millions died in Dafur before they intervined.In my opinion they just didn't care.Just another day in politics

Thats exactly my point. They didn't care. What the NWO wants is to BE the UN, except unlike todays UN they will have authority to act at a moments notice. They will take away they debate about everything thus taking away everyones right to have a say in things.

Im not implying the UN as it is today is helping anyone in anyway, all they do is condemn murderes and genocide then take months to decide that the best they can do is deny that countrys leader travel then freeze some petty assets.

Its all just a show. But youve gotta see that the show will become more deadly than we can imagine if there is an NWO.

Why do I belive globalization will better humanity?What else do we have to hope for.Do you think mankind can survive the way we keep going?I want to make clear that my idea of globalization is not the same as the current disgrace that has been termed nwo.I belive in a majority democray,not a 51%/49% democracy.I belive in a 70% majority,and if you can't acheive it you keep working at it till you do.If a democratic world government was put in place,and worked on a 70% majority vote,who can complain.It is the highest form of ignorance to think the minoritys concerns outway the majoritys.The globaliztion I support is a mature system that moves to the majoritys will.I know thats not what is happening right now,but like i said at the start of this thread,such a outcome will not arrive without war or revoltion.I can only hope when its over,those that are left will be mature enough to bury old prejidices and create something humanity has to be proud of.
I think the idea of gloablization has been brutally damaged by the currnet regimes,but it does not make the idea wrong or unusable.I belive it is the highest goal of humanity,we are just at to many different levels of social and spiritual maturity right now to make it work.

What else do we have to hope for.Do you think mankind can survive the way we keep going?

I agree, mankind will not survive the way we are going. But the way we are going is a global government. "Democracy" as you know it does not exist. Whether Democrat or Republican your putting the same entity into power. A conspiracy exists and behind the scenes your leaders are plotting against you. The info is out there, you just have to dig below what the msm tells you.

What we have to hope for is that human conciousness evolves in the way the ancients predicted. People are waking up and seeing what is happening. When it happens, there may well be a revolution because the people in power will not allow that power to be taken from them without a fight. That is what I mean by all humanity being equal. To overcome the evil and greed of those in power the day will come where you must choose your side and if you choose the light then you will stand beside those in third world countries and unite against the NWO.

You may not see it now, you make not be awakened yet. But one day you will. Will you remember the warnings? Will you see what has manifested itself around you? I hope when the day comes you will see the light. We are alive in a very interesting period. Our actions will determine the future of the race. Power and greed are evil. Evil will not prevail, mankind's destiny depends on it.

Peace

I agree 100% there is no true democracy anywhere in the world.I certainly don't endorse the current nwo system,but that does not mean a true democratic world government couldn't be put in place.We are definently headed for a clash with the global elites that are useing the idea of globalization for their own greedy ends at the expense of the rest of us.One day soon hopefully we stop just talking about this problem on ATS and go out there and put a stop to it.Once that has been acheived we can make a system by ALL the people for ALL the people.I like to be optomistic about these things firstly because anything is possible,and second if there is truth to the laws of attraction,we might just be courting disaster with our negitives on things no matter how justified.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
I think the idea of gloablization has been brutally damaged by the currnet regimes,but it does not make the idea wrong or unusable.I belive it is the highest goal of humanity,we are just at to many different levels of social and spiritual maturity right now to make it work.

As I said before, I believe that Globalization was created wholly by multinational conglomerates and plutocratic goverments for the express purpose of increasing the speed of the capital accumulation process, paying no regards to the soverign rights of other nations, or the welfare of other peoples. I see no good in globalization, I belive the good intentions were propaganda and never ment to be filled.

But i guess this is where our opinions differ. From what i got from your postings is that globalization was based on good intentions but corrupt officals screwed it all up. Which is an understandable stance seeing as officals often are corrupt and mess good things up all the time.

This is my stance on the NWO. The New World Order is really the Old World Order. Where the people have no power and control over their own lives and governmental despots tell them to give up a little bit more everyday. I believe the Old World Order is unregulated capitalism like the USA had in 1890. I dont believe that they NWO or whatever is going ot exterminate 4 out of 5 people, nor do i believe it had anything to do with satan or any religion other than money and possession.

We're not so far of base you and I InSpiteof.I agree with your assesment of the current nwo,and do not support the nwo,but it doesn't have to be like this either.You see no good in the globalization idea,perfectly fine opinion,but honesty must compell you to admit that the idea of 1 global government could,if applied properly,only benifit the majority of people across the globe.One day humanity will face a survival crisis,and I hope we are united to fight it instead of divided and argueing about how to go about it.

Originally posted by Chronic_Blaze

To overcome the evil and greed of those in power the day will come where you must choose your side and if you choose the light then you will stand beside those in third world countries and unite against the NWO.


How will those in third world countries fight the nwo if they are not brought up to the same level as those in the nwo.If they figtht politically they don't,as a majority, have the education or experience on a world scale to be effective.If they fight with military action they will simply be massacared not matter how determined or couragous.To fight this war we are going to have to do it from within the belly of the beast.

Sorry for answering in the box,still learnig.

[edit on 5-3-2007 by FreeSpeaker]

Regardless of education, the people know who the enemy is when repressive client-states attack their freedoms and their livelyhood. But you are right about one thing, the PEOPLE lack the military powers to fight back as much as their oppressers (thats not to say they wont make an attempt.)

I think the action and symbol of them fighting back is just as important as actually winning all the clashes and battles.

...do not exist.









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Originally posted by nobodyelse
UNFOUNDED Globalization fears...

...do not exist.

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see... see...

see more too...

[edit on 6-3-2007 by seridium]

Thanks for the links seridium.The second site raises the very good point that the only reason globalization is possible is due to the advancement in communications technology, meaning technology is part of the driving force toward globalization.So does anyone suggest we stop advancing our tech because it keeps drawing us toghter?Sites like ATS give people nearly everywhere the ability to debate issues and gain a better understanding of the other side of the coin,wich I consider in my opinion a small step towards globalization.So to everyone who fears globaliztion,turn off your computers and cell phones because your only contributing to it in a small way.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Thanks for the links seridium.The second site raises the very good point that the only reason globalization is possible is due to the advancement in communications technology, meaning technology is part of the driving force toward globalization.So does anyone suggest we stop advancing our tech because it keeps drawing us toghter?Sites like ATS give people nearly everywhere the ability to debate issues and gain a better understanding of the other side of the coin,wich I consider in my opinion a small step towards globalization.So to everyone who fears globaliztion,turn off your computers and cell phones because your only contributing to it in a small way.

Another big factor in the adaptation of new technology..........porn.


Theres plenty of demand for faster, cheaper, further broadband technologies within the US without globalization.

The only things that need global reach are missles. We can develop that without outsourcing our industry and submitting to global taxation. If anything global taxation will slow the rate that the current tech leaders can explore technology because the current tech learders will be forced to float 2nd, 3rd and 4th world nations.

We'll lose competietive spirit, competetive edge and just fall back into mediocrity along with the rest of the world. We'll be one big, grey, average planet with no tech advances of anykind because suddenly we're responsible for the health and welfare of 8 billion people.

It'll probably impede our intergallactic booty exploration.