UK Contaminated petrol supply

Silicon found in UK petrol supply

A depot allegedly linked with the "contaminated" fuel said to have damaged car engines is investigating whether it is to blame for the problem.

Meanwhile, an AA source told the BBC traces of silicon have been found in petrol taken from the cars.

BBC News


This is very odd as silicon should definitely be in any petrol substance.

This has affected me also, as my car has had to be taken into get work done to it to rectify the situation with it (and its still not right)

This makes me think whether this was a deliberate act of vandalism, as most test results have been coming back negative but the problem just keeps getting bigger.



[edit on 2-3-2007 by asala]

Its interesting to say the least, and does make one wonder if this is some form of sabotage,


news.sky.com...



They are telling people who are in the affected areas to take you cars to the garage to have them emptied of this possible infected petrol,


Also if anyone has been affected keep hold of any proof you have as you may be able to seek legal action for compensation,

I know its cost some car owners £1000, ($2000)

Lets hope they figure out what this is and quick

I can't help but wonder if silicon could've gotten into it by the breakdown of a silicon gasket or some such.

If its just a few stations here and there that had it, it might make sense that it'd be, say, a conspiracy between some local autoshops and the gas stations, to damage cars and then fix them and split the profits, but if its widespread and consistent like that, seems hard to say it'd be a conspriacy like that.

Lindsay Marriot, from Milton Keynes, told Sky News her Ford Galaxy has been off the road after she bought Tesco fuel.

Oooh, I know someone from milton keynes. Actually I think they are from Leighton Buzzard specifically. Neat. Hope they didn't get screwed over in this.

Leighton Buzzard that's not to far away from here and its likely that may have been caught in it also,

Dohboy got his from Tesco last week and his car was unusable all this week,

My family have so far been ok as they have not used the tesco pump this week,

the RAC have had to deal with so many breakdowns im not sure how they are coping,

this is our local paper and many are reporting on that

Link

[edit on 1-3-2007 by asala]

my car has been "hunting" ie missfiring since filling up at a Total station last week - given even that all stations get fuel from many sources its hard to immagine just Tesco or morissons being affected.

Similar problems here in Ontario, Canada. But we have a gas shortage due to a fire at a refinery. Stations are closing all over the place, and the price of gas this morning was 99.9 cents / litre (about $3.78 / gallon). And you people in the states think you have it bad!

A gasoline shortage that started with Imperial Oil's Esso stations in Southern Ontario is spreading to competing companies as efforts to restablish fuel supplies do not seem able to keep pace with demand and weather troubles.

A winter storm on Monday delayed repairs to Imperial Oil's Nanticoke refinery, which was hit by a fire two weeks ago. That incident cut production at the plant in half.

Ontario Gas Shortage

Something that is driving me nuts about this and the Op has done it is aswell..

Is it SILICON or SILICONE ?

Two completely different things. One is an element similar to carbon, the other is a chemical used to make fake boobs....

WHICH IS IT ?

[edit on 2/3/07 by stumason]

I thought the same but it is most definitely silicon.

Yup its silicon, but could its compound of silicone,

Latest is that Morrison's and tescos are going to empty there unleaded tanks to help stop the problem.



news.sky.com...



[edit on 2-3-2007 by asala]

Well, Silicone has silicon in it, but it's properties varie hugely. It does seem from the news reports that they don't actually know the difference. for example, the AA yesterday were clearly saying Silicon, but the news reporters said Silicone, as if they were the one and the same.

Idiots.

I do know that Silcone is used in anti-foaming agents, so maybe an oil worker/refinery worker cleaned out some tanks, but it wasn't rinsed properly before the fuel was pumped back in...

Just a thought..

Originally posted by sensfan
Similar problems here in Ontario, Canada. But we have a gas shortage due to a fire at a refinery. Stations are closing all over the place, and the price of gas this morning was 99.9 cents / litre (about $3.78 / gallon). And you people in the states think you have it bad!

If only it was that cheap over here, is about £0.93 per litre (approx $2.11 canadian)

Originally posted by DJDOHBOY

Originally posted by sensfan
Similar problems here in Ontario, Canada. But we have a gas shortage due to a fire at a refinery. Stations are closing all over the place, and the price of gas this morning was 99.9 cents / litre (about $3.78 / gallon). And you people in the states think you have it bad!

If only it was that cheap over here, is about £0.93 per litre (approx $2.11 canadian)

It's all relative though dude. We earn more.

In Africa, you could pick up a house and 50 servants for a few tens of thousands, if not less, but over here it would cost millions.

My car has been affected with petrol I bought in Tescos in milton keynes. I have sent Tescos a bill for the work needed, just waiting to see if they will pay up. I really hope so.

This is interesting, silicon is very similar to carbon, however, silicon is less reactive than its chemical analog carbon.

Cabon, being the major element in an Octane ring, could be replaced by silicon, rendering the substance absolutely useless for combustion.
Aside from Benzene, there shouldn't be any noticable amounts of anything other than various forms of octane groups like (heptane, isooctane, cyclopentane, and ethyl benzene)

Now, get this...
"If fuel octane is too low for a given compression ratio, the fuel prematurely and spontaneously ignites too early and the fuel charge EXPLODES rather than BURNS resulting in incomplete combustion. The net effect is a loss in power, possible engine damage, and an audible "knock" or "ping", referred to as detonation."

If enough octane had been rendered useless by silicon getting in there, that could do some serious damage to the engine. By serious, I mean you couldnt do it better with small amounts of TNT.

Silicon looks to be the perfect thing to add to fuel to do some damage.
Quite frankly, for an accident... you wouldnt have been able to plan that any better.



.... personally though, I prefer the "draw on the sparkplug with a lead pencil" trick myself.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by johnsky]

Originally posted by johnsky
This is interesting, silicon is very similar to carbon, however, silicon is less reactive than its chemical analog carbon.

Cabon, being the major element in an Octane ring, could be replaced by silicon, rendering the substance absolutely useless for combustion.
Aside from Benzene, there shouldn't be any noticable amounts of anything other than various forms of octane groups like (heptane, isooctane, cyclopentane, and ethyl benzene)

Now, get this...
"If fuel octane is too low for a given compression ratio, the fuel prematurely and spontaneously ignites too early and the fuel charge EXPLODES rather than BURNS resulting in incomplete combustion. The net effect is a loss in power, possible engine damage, and an audible "knock" or "ping", referred to as detonation."

If enough octane had been rendered useless by silicon getting in there, that could do some serious damage to the engine. By serious, I mean you couldnt do it better with small amounts of TNT.

Silicon looks to be the perfect thing to add to fuel to do some damage.
Quite frankly, for an accident... you wouldnt have been able to plan that any better.



.... personally though, I prefer the "draw on the sparkplug with a lead pencil" trick myself.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by johnsky]

from what i gathered the problem in this case, and believe me i'm not questioning your chemistry, i couldn't if i tried, was the oxygen senser been rendered useless by coming into contact with the silicon

[no idea how an oxygen senser works so i couldn't tell you how - although in the news i've heard stated that the sensers can be repaired rather than replaced - which makes me think you just need to clean the senser up ...]

without the oxygen senser garbage info is given to the engine management system, causing the fuel/air mix to be incorrect.. which caused the knocking...

it just sounds like a foul-up by the suppliers of the fuel - especially as they provide 'green' fuel, 'real' petrol mixed with plant-derived ethanol.. just sounds like 'teething' troubles to me..

Oh I'm sure the output would contaminate the O2 sensor in your exhaust which would definately add to the problem... but the Fuel to Air mixture shouldnt cause knocking regardless of how far off it is. It may cause sputtering, and stalling, or flooding of the compartment if there simply isnt enough air... but it shouldnt cause knocking.

Maybe they are not telling people about the explosive nature of a bad octane level, because it could slow down repairs, due to too many people ensisting that the pistons need to be checked.

The mechanics are right in not removing the pistons, as the problem would become noticable soon enough that not too much damage would occur... not enough to warrant a complete work over on the engine at least.

I wonder though if that was the statement issued by the gasoline vendors... if that were the case, then the vendor themselves may be trying to save money by not having to replace piston rings and manifolds, just the O2 sensor.


Anyhow, I'm not trying to be an alarmist... seeing as the problem was caught soon enough, your engine should be fine... this likely took a few months off of it's lifespan, but it will run again once the fuel has been changed out.

However, if the problem continued without the recall of fuel, and people ignoring the knocking... yeah, there'd be alot of pistons and manifolds requiring maintainance at the moment.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by johnsky]

i've been trying to find out what effects people actually witnessed, and come up short.. other than "started to run badly" sort of thing..

but i did find something [in the Telegraph newspaper] that suggested that the o2 sensors, when damaged, 'failsafe' - in this case they switch the engine management system to "limp home mode" [for want of a more technical description]

On giving it some thought, i'm inclined to agree with you. This is going to cost the suppliers enough already without even mentioning possible damage to the pistons/rings/bores etc if i were them i'd keep that nugget of info to myself...