Cardinal Biffi - Antichrist walks among us

Originally posted by Mdv2

Muslim extremists? The New World Order? How is this so-called Antichrist expected to convert millions of Christians? Afterall, according to the definition this Antichrist will be taking over the place of Christ. Since magic does not exist, I cannot see how the Antichrist would be able to convert those millions of people.

The Christians will not be here. Perhaps you have heard of the rapture.

Matthew 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come

Originally posted by reaganero
the only religious community out there right now who has any worldwide Political influence is and has been the catholic church.

I think Islam has much more influence these days than any other religious group on the planet.

Originally posted by Uisge Baugh
I know that I should have looked it up but what does "ecumenism" mean?

It depends on who you ask. The left view of ecumenism is that everyone of every faith tolerates and gets along, and that they tone everything down so that no one gets offended.

The right view of ecumenism is that religious truth is (wrongly) sacrificed to make all religions bland and tolerable, but no longer religiously correct.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The Christians will not be here. Perhaps you have heard of the rapture.

The rapture myth has been debunked many times. (tons of debunking threads here in BTS) If by chance there are no christians here when the Anti-Christ shows up it'll be either because they have lost faith and aren't Christian anymore or because they are dead. It won't be due to any rapture.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by Mdv2

Muslim extremists? The New World Order? How is this so-called Antichrist expected to convert millions of Christians? Afterall, according to the definition this Antichrist will be taking over the place of Christ. Since magic does not exist, I cannot see how the Antichrist would be able to convert those millions of people.

The Christians will not be here. Perhaps you have heard of the rapture.

Matthew 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come

Oh, crap! not this again! hey, sun. let's not take this thread too far lol

Well, I believe Padre Pio said that the Antichrist was born in the 60s... and he was recently made a Saint right? So I guess we'll see soon if he was right.

The thing about prophecies though, is that they don't always happen like you expect them too. Just take the Mayan's prophecy for example. Cortez's coming fit into a prophecy they had, but it wasn't good for them.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by reaganero
the only religious community out there right now who has any worldwide Political influence is and has been the catholic church.

I think Islam has much more influence these days than any other religious group on the planet.

Originally posted by Uisge Baugh
I know that I should have looked it up but what does "ecumenism" mean?

It depends on who you ask. The left view of ecumenism is that everyone of every faith tolerates and gets along, and that they tone everything down so that no one gets offended.

The right view of ecumenism is that religious truth is (wrongly) sacrificed to make all religions bland and tolerable, but no longer religiously correct.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The Christians will not be here. Perhaps you have heard of the rapture.

The rapture myth has been debunked many times. (tons of debunking threads here in BTS) If by chance there are no christians here when the Anti-Christ shows up it'll be either because they have lost faith and aren't Christian anymore or because they are dead. It won't be due to any rapture.

Although there are plenty of celebrity figures with great social (e.g. Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, etc.), symbolic (e.g. Prince Charles, King Hussein) and even spiritual (e.g. Dalai Lama, Deepak Chopra) influence, they have little or no geo- (i.e. worldwide) political influence. Even as the leader of the world's greatest superpower, President Bush's spiritual influence hardly goes beyond his personal faith -- all his attempts to do so would likely be dismissed as politically motivated, and in violation of Church-State separation. On an international level, almost every nation in the world (including Islamic theocratic states) must abide by a similar separation of internal religious affairs from their roles in world politics.

Originally posted by Kruel
I believe Padre Pio said that the Antichrist was born in the 60s... and he was recently made a Saint right? So I guess we'll see soon if he was right.

That means that he lead a holy life and that the Church now believes he is in Heaven. Saints make major errors in personal opinions all the time. For example - Padre Pio said that he believed Garabandal to be an authentic Marian apparition site. However, Garabandal has now been investigated three times by the Church and the Church still declares it 'not to be of supernatural origin.'

(I am of the opinon Garabandal is demonic .. but that's for another thread)

Originally posted by FlyersFan

The rapture myth has been debunked many times. (tons of debunking threads here in BTS) If by chance there are no christians here when the Anti-Christ shows up it'll be either because they have lost faith and aren't Christian anymore or because they are dead. It won't be due to any rapture.

I have yet to see it debunked and have read all the threads in question.
I would be happy to use scripture and tear this so called debunking into little pieces. By the same token, I can assure you that you cannot do the same.

Answer me this. If there is no rapture how is the following scripture possible. How is it possible that people are eating and drinking and carrying on with life as normal and marrying and giving in marriage when the Son of man comes. If Christ doesn't return until after the Great Tribulation DO YOU THINK IT WILL BE LIFE AS NORMAL? The rapture is the beginning of the tribulation.

Matthew 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I have yet to see it debunked and have read all the threads in question.

Then you are choosing not to see, because it has been debunked .. debunked using scripture.

so called debunking

Nothing 'so called' about it. It's been debunked.

By the same token, I can assure you that you cannot do the same.

Been there, done that. It's all been hashed and rehashed and DEBUNKED. I'm not going to do it all again and there is NOTHING that you can pull out of scripture that we haven't seen before .. and discussed .. over and over and over ...

Suggested reading - The Rapture Trap by Paul Thigpen.

I noticed you failed to answer my simple question Flyer.

Like I said I would be happy to chop up this rapture debunking in little pieces............Bring the book and use it, I'm certainly not afraid to chop it up either.

I await your answer to my question.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I noticed you failed to answer my simple question Flyer.

I didn't 'fail' to answer your question.

Sun Matrix .. this has been DEBUNKED. Your quote has aleady been discussed on those threads over and over and over. I'm too tired of shouting at a wall (those who won't bother listening) to bother re-discussing it here.

If YOU wish to believe in the rapture myth .. go ahead. However, it's spiritually dangerous to do so. It's soul candy. Tastes great and feels good ... but leaves you vulnerable. You won't be ready for tribulations when they hit .. and they WILL hit.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

I didn't 'fail' to answer your question.

Sun Matrix .. this has been DEBUNKED. Your quote has aleady been discussed on those threads over and over and over. I'm too tired of shouting at a wall (those who won't bother listening) to bother re-discussing it here.

Funny I have yet to see that question asnwered along with many others. Perhaps you will be good enough to answer one more time, as we both know my question can't be answered unless there is a rapture.

If YOU wish to believe in the rapture myth .. go ahead. However, it's spiritually dangerous to do so. It's soul candy. Tastes great and feels good ... but leaves you vulnerable. You won't be ready for tribulations when they hit .. and they WILL hit.

As a Christian you should be at war right now and experiencing tribulation right now. We war not against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities. This crock about not being ready for the tribulation is just that. The danger is not watching and missing the rapture. There will not be a second chance for those who have heard the word and missed the rapture. That is the real danger.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Here is the second question you can't answer. What is Jesus talking about escaping from here? Again we see life as normal and we are to watch. Watch for what?

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Please feel free to use your book and pose a question.

Barack Obama gets my vote (for anti-christ)

[edit on 2-3-2007 by TheAvenger]

Originally posted by rrahim1
I guess I'll take a shot at it because I'm pretty smart.

Don't take his words to have such a deep meaning.

Amoung US.

The NEW POPE!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll second that.

.

again i will say this

the book of revelations is an ALLEGORICAL BOOK
it is not meant to be read literally and the history surrounding the book should be the most important thing considered when interpreting it

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
again i will say this

the book of revelations is an ALLEGORICAL BOOK
it is not meant to be read literally and the history surrounding the book should be the most important thing considered when interpreting it

no it's not.

Originally posted by Neon Haze
If you want to blame all the evil in the world on something.. then lets blame the true culprit.... HUMANS...

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Neon Haze]

I have to admit that my understanding from theology is that the antiChrist will be human/humans

Originally posted by reaganero
It's pretty apparent that nobody wants to accept the phrase "antichrist" in association with the "beast" who will force his/her mark (666 or 616...ect) on the world. I think we all understand that the word "antichrist" has a dual meaning but for this thread the author was reffering to the actual "beast". so, for clarity on ats i think we should start reffering to THE antichrist as THE BEAST?

Can we all agree on this?

here's the scripture for reference. so, stop googling antichrist you'll not get the point.

BEAST

I have to disagree

What I have from the horses' mouth differs from that. It appears that the antiChrist is human/humans and the beasts are definitely not human along with the dragon who is equated to lucifer.

18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Damit! This passage makes it sound obvious. The most obvious thing that can relate 666 to a man's number imo is:

Vicarius Filii Dei which equates to 666 in Roman numeralogy and means "Vicar to the Son of God"

en.wikipedia.org...

The Pope is known in Vatican circles as the Vicar of Christ

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
again i will say this

the book of revelations is an ALLEGORICAL BOOK
it is not meant to be read literally and the history surrounding the book should be the most important thing considered when interpreting it

Gee maybe you're right. When it says BEHOLD A WHITE HORSE, it's not talking about a white horse it is talking about the Antichrist. At the end of Revelation the White Horse is referring to Christ.

All you need do is understand what is being talked about........then you can read it literally.

This cardinal is obviously part of the machine that wants to keep everyone scared. The same machine that made the US go to war in the Middle East. The Bible isn't prophetic, it doesn't predict anything, the "powers that be" make it seem that way so people think the world is about to end. You can't control billions of people unless you keep them in fear.

Originally posted by gopher mines
This cardinal is obviously part of the machine that wants to keep everyone scared. The same machine that made the US go to war in the Middle East. The Bible isn't prophetic, it doesn't predict anything, the "powers that be" make it seem that way so people think the world is about to end. You can't control billions of people unless you keep them in fear.

So the Bible isn't prophetic? Gee, I wonder what these prophecies are all about. I believe if you do a little research you will find that the prophesied judgement of Iraq is happening right now. The final part of this judgement will happen on the DAY OF THE LORD.

Isaiah 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. 2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. 3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like F70 as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

Jeremiah 50:9 For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country: and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken: their arrows shall be as of a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain

41 Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation, and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth

The sad thing is you have no clue what is going on in the world. In case you want to know................it's all prophesied.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Gee maybe you're right. When it says BEHOLD A WHITE HORSE, it's not talking about a white horse it is talking about the Antichrist. At the end of Revelation the White Horse is referring to Christ.

or maybe all the horse symbolism has to do with bordering empires...

All you need do is understand what is being talked about........then you can read it literally.

i understand what is being talked about, and when you read it literally it reads just like the account of a drug trip (yes, i can make this comparison because i've read them)

and sun, if you're saying that america is the nation spoken of in jeremiah...
wouldn't it be a great nation from the WEST?
it's not really that much of a northern nation, it's too expansive to classify as such

[edit on 3/3/07 by madnessinmysoul]