Freemason False Flag OP!

Mmm can't be the case?..

Why would we make up a poster to post crap to get them baned, when it was merrily a typical anti-Freemason post much like this one is? .. Unless.. is the OP a Mason and apart of the conspiracy??? We need no help falsely creating childish threads, there are more here already then we know what to do with!

You would also have to say Nygdan, and Intrepid where both Masons and in on the conspiracy, which they are neither. Rather insulting to the staff for doing their job.

If this thread once had any purpose, it has long since been destroyed by the band of thugs who troll all over it. We have a situation where just the other day a video was released showing foreknowledge that the BBC reported on, that the Solomon building collapsed 20 min or so before it actually occurred! Thus BBC cannot be trusted (for all you liberals) and neither can we trust a seemingly harmless Digg.com, who seemed to bury the threads regarding this new video! Neither can we trust googlevideo or youtube who continued to remove this ground-breaking new video from their servers - a video which even began disappearing from the internet archives. Yet, the attitude here is " how dare we suggest that googlevideo was part of any conspiracy!" After all, they are putting up so much sexy vid's and even anti-government material, so could we suggest that an entity that supports free videos and offers charity is somehow also involved in any coverup?

Physics does not lie and thus the reason why so many of you little trolls avoid coming into any place other than this SS forum where you are removed from merely defending your little jewel of Freemasonry. You KNOW very well that the truth is already known, yet you bask in here like some liberators of an attacked fraternity and scoff at all these "nutjobs" etc. Please, do not insult our intelegence for where there is light you see only darkness! You people who come here like it's some little 'fraternity'.

I disliike the way you attacked this thread at it's very onset, it truly disgusted me and I promise you it also disgusted more lurkers here who know that we are at war and are facing an evil of mammoth proportion which should have by now moved all men regardless of nation, creed, religion, fraternity etc into one united movement and to cry out loud together "that we will no longer allow this evil!"

But what voices do we normally here? We are now being told by these trolls to NOT question all things as if that's really the best thing we should all be doing at this very moment. Please do not pucker up to me that you have not the time to go and find out these things on 9-11 or anything of that nature. Many of you have been here as posters for a long time and are still here only to defend the status quo and that status quo has nothing to do at all with "truth".

Clever little ones who like to impress upon their egos that any thread starter who has a different 'theory' is somehow made to be laughed at. It's getting very old and tired so please try another venue and spare us.



[edit on 1-3-2007 by sweftl337]

zerotime

"Can you provide any evidence to back up points 4 and 5? If you have the evidence please show it in support of your claims."

I will be more than happy to provide the evidence for you. First, may I recommend you re-read this whole thread.

evidence.
4.This action is now used as a threat over all who post about the Freemason conspiracy theory.

Zhenyghi

"Oh please!...that is the most ridiculous thing I've read lately. Honestly, Cain-diedhi, I've suspected you of being another sock-puppet for the infamous troll, "VCR" -- your appearance on these forums so soon after his departure seemed oddly curious."

5.All who post now get abused and censored, accused of not sourcing material, attempting to sell or promote product's and ironically accused of being abusive.

Roark

"The Masons contribute more facts to ATS than the herpetophobic paranoiacs...

You should actually try to test and research what we say once in a while. You may be shocked to learn that we've got better things to do than play cloak-and-dagger disinfo games like wannabe spies or something.

Get real, mate. "

Rockpuck

"Fair well Cain-Diedhi.. we can no longer stay here at ATS with your intelligent researching abilities, truly abnormal ability it is.. we will have to move on to corrupting weaker men."

"Perhaps if you had credible sources, left out far fetched schemes of world domination, and left your arrogant accusations at the door, you would be both better received and heard. The problem you have is not the Masons on this board over powering you with influential force, but rather your problem is you cannot bring forth an argument that could possibly hold ground against the real truth."

corsig

" Oh crap he figeured us out now what do we do?

Ok guys on to the next forum board.'

Dude the time you spent typing this up could have been spent on learning the truth about the Masons and pulling the haze away that's clouding your vision.

Gotta go now and Black Op someone else "

These examples are just from within this thread alone!

I could spend many hour ploughing through threads and producing example after example for you because these issues are now dominating the ats threads.



[edit on 1-3-2007 by cain-diedhi]

[edit on 1-3-2007 by cain-diedhi]

I do not believe this post will be censored. I think it is a valid conspiracy point whether one believes it or not. I have noticed that freemasons in ATS do attack anti-freemason threads to the point of stopping the conversation completely but I am not sure that is abnormal. If I were a Freemason and someone was attacking Freemasonry then I would stand up for my beliefs as well. You will be faced with negative opinion. That is why it is important to sight your sources up front and provide as much information as possible to back up your theories.

I have no idea what the real truth is...maybe there are Freemasons who are on ATS to make trouble but I still do not feel that condemns all Freemasons. Hey, I could become a Freemason and then go out and rob a liquor store. That certainly does not mean that all Freemasons are to blame for my crimes. You could also be the troublemaker, pretending to be VCR, and posting worthless spam on ATS to cause problems and disrupt the website.

I am willing to keep an open mind and keep watching.

Fight on…




[edit on 1-3-2007 by zerotime]

Rockpuck

"Why would we make up a poster to post crap to get them baned, when it was merrily a typical anti-Freemason post much like this one is? .. Unless.. is the OP a Mason and apart of the conspiracy??? We need no help falsely creating childish threads, there are more here already then we know what to do with!"

Nobody is insulting the staff here at ATS, OK!
In fact nobody is even saying that ALL Freemasons are involved in a plot within this forum.
All Cult followings like the Freemasons have extreme separatist within the ranks, and its these separatist we are trying to stop from causing such negative responses and derailing threads which they feel unworthy.

This thread has much to do with the kind of response you posted!
I stated why VCR could have being created and for what reasons. I gave my opinion about the importance of the Freemason community within the forum.
I know the moderators have checked my IP and they know that I am not VCR. I think your missing the point!

I'm just taking a stand, in an attempt to save the forum status.

Let me give you a small example of what is happening to the forum outside the major posts.
In email conversation the other day, a friend posted me this link to a thread within ATS. The thread is not important at this point but what is stated at the end is very important.


"WTC7 - watch the hapless fool on BBC News report on the collapse of WTC7 20 minutes BEFORE it collapsed - FFS you can see WTC7 in the skyline behind her...

anyway: www.youtube.com... and www.liveleak.com...

ATS discussion www.abovetopsecret.com...

[which obviously, been ATS, dissolves into back-biting and snidy little remarks...!!!"]

I wonder how many other people are rapidly becoming
dis-heartened with the forum's due to derailment etc?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
VCR was NOT a Mason, he was a kid, a kid who happened to get into arguments with every one he encountered .. including mods. He was also a plargarist.

That is why he was baned, there may be other reasons, but those I think where the main reasons. In violation of the T&C, he was warned many times.. then banned.

What is wrong with that?

What is the OPs facination with VCR? ....... are you VCR?

no really, are you?

Hello rockpuck.

Just to clear things up:

No, I do not agree with the OPs claim.

However, he never insulted the ATS staff, as intrepid believed, and was actually pointing out how them doing the job to the best of their ability was being exploited by Masons who are false flagging.

They have, according to the OP, created a false individual(s) --VCR-- and have used him with intentions of getting him banned. He was, as you said, "In violation of the T&C, he was warned many times.. ". He argued like a child with everyone he encountered and plagarized.

Now, his repeated banning would be the mods doing their jobs well and the Masons taking advantage of that...according to the OPs theory. VCR, by acting like such a child, puts a black mark on other 'anti-Masonic' posters. They are associated with the board drama that was (and still may be) VCR and therefor not taken seriously and ridiculed themselves.

Do we all finally see why the Masons would do something of this nature? I may not agree that they actually are but hell...it is a pretty clever little conspiracy theory and one of the more plausible ones on this site.

So in short: I do not agree with the OPs theory. He never insulted the staff here at ATS (just pointed out how there active participation in the boards could be exploited). And no...I am not VCR. Hell, I come from a family of Masons myself.

Cain- if you cannot see the sarcasm in my post then you clearly want to see only what you want to see.

If I/we really had something to hide would we/I really post it here as "oh crap we were found out"

Come on man lighten up. Also give ATS a little more credit for thinking that they would let Masons controll the whole website when the SS section is only a tiny part of the whole site created to discuss conspiracies of all kinds.

Also Freemasonry itself in not a conspiracy persay. What you think we do might be but that is from the ignorance and fear that some people have of thr organization.

Yes, we put the whole world domination/NWO thing on the back burner to expedite this false flag here at ATS.

Since our clumsy and ill advised "op" has been revealed by this astute member we'll have to retire and scheme again....

I REPEAT !!!

Nobody is insulting the staff here at ATS, OK!


In fact nobody is even saying that ALL Freemasons are involved in a plot within this forum.

BUT SOME ARE SUSPECTS IN THIS CASE?

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Yes, we put the whole world domination/NWO thing on the back burner to expedite this false flag here at ATS.

Since our clumsy and ill advised "op" has been revealed by this astute member we'll have to retire and scheme again....

No Mirthful we must go on as planned we cannot nay we must not let this foil our evil doings. The world and ATS we be ours, all ours boohahahaha boohahahaha (said while rubbing hands together)

Mirthful Me & corsig

You do yourselfs no justice. LOL!

Keep up the good work.

All of this is absurd!

Don't forget your power to ignore someone.

Short, Sweet, and to the point (or lack of).

Originally posted by cain-diedhi
In fact nobody is even saying that ALL Freemasons are involved in a plot within this forum.

BUT SOME ARE SUSPECTS IN THIS CASE?

Umm, there is no 'case'.

You've not shown any proof or even reasonable suspicion that things with VCR were more than they appeared to be - a sad little kid, who came here with an obvious agenda, who tried to do as much 'damage' as possible before getting banned.

The burden of proof is upon you, as accuser.

Originally posted by corsig

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Yes, we put the whole world domination/NWO thing on the back burner to expedite this false flag here at ATS.

Since our clumsy and ill advised "op" has been revealed by this astute member we'll have to retire and scheme again....

No Mirthful we must go on as planned we cannot nay we must not let this foil our evil doings. The world and ATS we be ours, all ours boohahahaha boohahahaha (said while rubbing hands together)

On the outside looking in again: Posts like the two quoted in this reply are exactly the kind of thing the OP seems to be discussing.

Derailing threads and the like.

If you do not agree with his theory and he does not give you the proof that you desire then you are welcome to leave the conversation with some grace (as I would expect an adult to do). Instead certain individuals seem to be here to mock the thread instead of contributing to the discussion. And yes, you can contribute without agreeing with the OP.

I may not agree with the OPs theory, but I can at least read it and attempt to understand where he is coming from. Simply becoming caricatures of the figures the OP makes you out to be does nothing but give him more credence and makes you look all the more of a fool (and a childish one at that).

So, if on topic discussion could resume between the adults it would be much appreciated from this observer.

[edit on 3/1/0707 by spines]

Originally posted by cain-diedhi
They created VCR aka "Viva Christo Rey" and his aliases.

Really? Whats his IP? What servers did his posts pass through? Where's he operating out of?
Oh, you DON'T know any of that, do you? SO you DON'T have the first CLUE as to what is going on.

2. VCR was then BANNED and made an example of, but he still remains hidden (apparently) moving between many user names and therefore becoming a sort of Bin-laden of ATS.

He's not hidden, he wasn't using clever tactics, he'd get banned, and then the nitwit would register a new account. He's not some stealthy agent creeping amoungst the shadows. He's a troll, registering mulitple accounts. And if you didn't notice, which apparently you didnt', he GONE permanently now.

3.The banning of VCR (I'm no fan !) was a show of strength and solidarity within the Freemason community on ATS.

I banned VCR, and I am NOT a freemason. None of the mods that permantently banned him were freemasons either.

4.This action is now used as a threat over all who post about the Freemason conspiracy theory.

Anyone that posts flat out lies like VCR did will get banned, yes. If you're not posting lies, if you're not purposely disrupting the forums, if you're not creating pointless drama inducing threads, then you've got nothing to worry about.

5.All who post now get abused and censored, accused of not sourcing material, attempting to sell or promote product's and ironically accused of being abusive.

Who's being censored and abused? If you make a claim, and then don't present even a shred of evidence, of course people on ATS are going to call you out, regardless of whether they are freemasons, or if its in the Secret Society Forum.

I only wanted to discuss what goes on within this forum.

The point of ATS is not to discuss....ATS. Its to discuss the various conspiracies and paranormal happenings out there. None of us came here to discuss the operation and running of ATS. If anything, thats a distraction from the real issues at hand.

I'm sure that I'm not the only user that feels strongly about Freemasons derailing threads etc etc etc!

If a thread gets derailed, we close it. If a poster disagrees with a partiuclar conspriacy theory, and offers evidence, input, and discussion about it, thats not 'derrailing'.

People are allowed to post here from whatever viewpoint they want, we're not going to censor people merely because their ideas are unpopular.

I'm sure you do moderate within the T&C and I'm not accusing Moderators of any wrong doing

Yes you are, you alleged that a masonic conspiracy got VCR banned, and that a masonic conspiracy uses him as an 'example' to silence opposition across the board.

VCR was a liar, and a troll. Thus, he was banned. Are you a liar? Are you a troll? If not, then you have nothing to worry about. EVEN IF VCR was a masonic sock puppet, which, again, we know the VCR account was not.

HAS THIS THREAD HAS BEING DERAILED? It feels like it to me.

And there you go again, accusing Intrepid of purposely derailing a thread in the context of a masonic conspiracy. But then you claim you are not accusing anyone.

These examples are just from within this thread alone!

All I see in this thread is people disagreeing with you and asking for either evidence or logic. If they aren't being gentle enough for you, well, too bad, you are accusing them personally of being invovled in a plot on the board, that's hardly 'nice' on your part either, is it?

SO you really can't cry about people asking for evidence and rejecting your ideas when you are calling them frauds and liars and agents, can you?

However, I feel this agenda to derail and destroy threads through this sinister operation must be dealt with immediately

Since we know it wasn't a 'freemasonic false flag operation' because WE are the ones with the IP information about VCR et al, we thank you for your input, but its entirely moot.

sweftl337
I find some of these antics by the Mod's acting all insulted a little strange

A little strange? We're being accused of being masonic operatives in a conspiracy. Its patently false and absurd.

If this thread once had any purpose, it has long since been destroyed by the band of thugs who troll all over it.

Again, more bunk. Freemasons who responded and discussed the accustaions and theory in this thread are thugs?

ATS is not some site where we all hold the hands of wannabe conspiracy theoriests while they try and try to come up with a conspiracy theory. Its a conspiracy theory discussion site. Everyone is free to come here and discuss conspiracy theories, from whatever angle or viewpoint they want. Why are you trying to shut down open discussion on this topic?

spines
according to this theory the OP puts forward it would seem that the moderators are doing there job and the freemasons are using that to their advantage in a clever way.

The problem with this entire theory is that C-D is just pulling it out of his butt, he's speculating without even the slightest bit of evidence. He does not know who VCR is, he has no information about VCR identity, where VCR operates out of, etc etc. We do. We know VCR is not a mason. Thus, the theory is pure bunkum.

ONe could just as easily suggest that C-D is infact a masonic operative, here to stir up the issue of VCR again, to get people to re-affirm that VCR's actions, regardless of who was behind them, were wrong, and thus discourage any anti-masonic speculation.
Or C-D could be a masonic operative here to stir up drama over events on ATS, to serve as a distraction from realworld masonic conspiracies by tugging at an emotive string.

zerotime
is that VCR is a freemason and that VCR came to ATS to purposely post childish topics

VCR plagariazed freemasonrywatch for most of the posts. If you want to say freemasonrywatch is childish, well, go right ahead, but I suspect most anti-masonic posters, and masonic posters, and non-masonic posters, will recognize that freemasonrywatch causes more greif than good for masonry.

Of course, there is allways the possibility that freemasonrywatch itself is a masonic front, putting up outlandish and baseless theories to make people think anti-masonry is foolish, AND to 'suck up' the pool of anti-masonic researchers and point them in the wrong direction.

Originally posted by cain-diedhi
BUT SOME ARE SUSPECTS IN THIS CASE?

What case? You have no case. YOu suggested that a guy who was presenting rather standard conpsiracy theories about masonry was a masonic agent. You had no evidence, other than to say 'who benefited, hmmmmm'.

THe masons on this board have hardly benefited from VCRs pressence, infact, it seems that you are the one benefiting from it, creating a big thread over it, getting lots of attention, etc. If anything, by your own 'logic', YOU are part of the plot.



IF this thread is being derailed, its because of YOU. YOU are the one unable to back up your accustations, YOU are the one unable to offer a reasonable logic of why the plot would be carried out, and YOU are the one that takes so called 'snide' comments, and then carries on the conversation about those comments, rather than ADDRESSING THE SO CALLED ISSUES.

[edit on 1-3-2007 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan

spines
according to this theory the OP puts forward it would seem that the moderators are doing there job and the freemasons are using that to their advantage in a clever way.

The problem with this entire theory is that C-D is just pulling it out of his butt, he's speculating without even the slightest bit of evidence.

I tend to agree...but that does not change the fact that mods were never insulted and if anything, like I have said before, cited for doing their job well.

However, if we want to start railing those who post 'out of their butt' theories we would be crashing down on a nice chunk of ATS. Hell, at least the OPs was a bit clever this time.

Originally posted by Nygdan
He does not know who VCR is, he has no information about VCR identity, where VCR operates out of, etc etc. We do. We know VCR is not a mason. Thus, the theory is pure bunkum.

And because I am curious: How do you know that he is not a Mason? I am not trying to lend credence to the OPs theory but rather curious as to how you could know this about VCR.

I hope you don't cite his actions as the basis for your knowing he is not a Mason...because then we just enter a circular argument between the OP and yourself.

Originally posted by Nygdan
ONe could just as easily suggest that C-D is infact a masonic operative, here to stir up the issue of VCR again, to get people to re-affirm that VCR's actions, regardless of who was behind them, were wrong, and thus discourage any anti-masonic speculation.
Or C-D could be a masonic operative here to stir up drama over events on ATS, to serve as a distraction from realworld masonic conspiracies by tugging at an emotive string.

Ah, actual discussion on this thread. Thats refreshing.

Now I've made my position on freemasonry pretty clear but I have to admit Cain-Diedhl has a very valid point to an extent.

While I don't necessarily agree that there is an actual conspiracy, i do think there is a bit of an attitude going on. I think it was Stewart Lewis (if not sorry) who said that you can just ignore the thread.

When I first joined the forum I made a few mildly derisory comments about Freemasons and was immediately jumped on from a great height (Hi Intrepid) and accused of having an 'agenda'. Had I been made of less stern stuff I could easily have been intimidated enough never to come back again.

Everytime a Freemason thread comes up, the same people jump in and attack the OP, sometimes resorting to pure ridicule which I find a little excessive. By doing this you are almost encouraging the belief that something more sinister is at work.

As to the assertion that members are banned if they lie or try to create drama etc . Not sure I've seen consistency on that one.

There seems to be an over-zealous attitude on the Secret Societies board particularly aimed at Freemasonry posters that is interferring with free exchange.

Just my ten-pennith.

I am not a mason and I don't believe have a secret agenda to control the world. They did have a great deal of influence in the creation of the united states, but I wonder how much power they still have over this monster they created. I think they are for the most part just like any other cult/religion. Like any organized group of people, Masons have the potential to be abused or manipulated, and they have had their fair share of imbeciles and scandals (though to a far lesser degree than mainstream religions such as Christianity or Islam) As to the subject of creating a false-flag username and manipulating the board, if you are dumb enough to be manipulated by a false flag op (especially if you see it on TV or on the internet) then you have no right to complain. People deserve the government they get. If you leave yourself open to manipulation, you deserve to be manipulated. What do you think US elections are about? Do you actually believe the things a republican or democrat are saying or the promises they make during an election? Both parties represent the same group of elite, and they have a mutual interest in upholding their false-flag duality. This messed up system only exists because we allow it to exist; we allow ourselves to be divided and conquered instead of uniting around a common cause. Americans are starting to catch on to thie deception, and that is why the government is currently allowing thousands of new immigrants to come into the country. They are trying to dilute the population even further with poorly educated sheep who will buy into their false left-right system to offset dissent. And what do we do about the immigration 'problem'? We build walls, both physical and spiritual, that only feed into the power grid of the system.

Wow. Everyone needs to chill the hell out!

This is getting out of hand guys!

I've never came across a board like this, where someone's opinion can be taken so seriously, hurtfully and the original discussion the OP was trying to start (where he made a point of starting 'in my opinion') has been so lost in you lot bickering that it makes you look like a bunch of kids!

If someone has an opinion let them have it! If we can't discuss things rationally without resorting to childish sarcasm and taking so much offence that we accuse him/her of things that they never implied then what kind of borad is this? Oh yeah, the kind of board that turn into the one the OP is talking about!

You Masons know people have strong opinions on what you may or may not get up to behind closed doors. I would've thought that possibly you'd have learned to deal with those opinions better. If you meet someone face-to-face who has opinions on freemasonry would you deal with them in such a way? Ganging up and implying more than was said? I doubt it. The book of Masonry tells you how to conduct yourself in public (something about being men ogf good will and honour I believe) and I feel that internet forums are no different.

The OP makes a point early in the thread of apologising he/she offended anyone and also that it was never implied that the moderators are doing anything wrong. He/she also stated that their opinion is that not all Masons are involved and values the input of Masons on the board to threads. Yet still everyone still manages to take offence!

This has now sunk so low that it is actually lending credit to the OPs opinion. I also do not exactly share his opinion but i'm getting it's drift more and more after reading threads like these.

This is a DISCUSSION board so please lets discuss the OPs opinion and suggestion and not just bicker like kids.

Nammu

x

P.S my opinon is that it's not likely but that's not to say it's not possible. at the end of the day you never know!

[edit on 1-3-2007 by Nammu]