Originally posted by OK2HateMe
Even if your stats are true, it's not logical. Should I look at every white guy in America as a racist and continue to expect Affirmative Action? It's a two-way street.

They don't look at every black person as a criminal, they are just more suspicious of black people than white people, which is logical, considering statistically, black men commit 7 times the crime compared to the average white male.

Your analogy makes no sense. White people in the US are probably less racist than black people are. So if you look at every white man as a racist, then every black person must be racist as well.

NO! Don't you dare tell me about racism. It never stopped me from being the entrepreneur I am today. I never once asked for a hand out. I was always working since I was 12. So don't tell me I bitch and moan. Your father might have experienced racism and I'm sorry he did. I know it must have been hard on him to have to endure what he did every day. I'd never discount any of his experiences. I just discount yours. He went through all that to have an inconsiderate son (or daughter) like you that has no compassion as to what goes on in this country.

I never asked for sympathy and nor do I want it. You came in on a debate I was having with someone else that had nothing to do with you. But I appreciate everyone's opinion just the same... but you were a little too quick to cast judgment on me on a quote that wasn't even taken out in it's entirety.

I respect your father's accomplishments. I'm glad he made out well... It's you i don't respect at all... because you don't have any respect for anyone else.

It kills me how people from other countries come to America by choice to make their dreams come true but still have no respect for others who were enslaved in this country and forcibly brought here and could be killed and shot for looking at a white person in the face. While some worked hard to make ends meet and earn their freedom, only to be recaptured and enslaved again.

Most forget the if it wasn't for the African-Americans fighting back and marching and working through segregation to get an education to better ourselves, other ethnic minorities wouldn't be able to do what they're doing in this country. When black people wanted to work and earn their keep they were kicked down and when they fought to earn a decent education so they can care for themselves they were kicked down... but when the TV portrays a negative stereotype that ruins the image of all the positive black influences, we all get kicked down... It's will always be a catch22. But guess what. You just make me stronger.

Just like your father made it through the bigotry and racism, so will I. Your negativity won't hold me back. And your sense generalization is why things will never change.

Originally posted by OK2HateMe


It kills me how people from other countries come to America by choice to make their dreams come true but still have no respect for others who were enslaved in this country and forcibly brought here and could be killed and shot for looking at a white person in the face. While some worked hard to make ends meet and earn their freedom, only to be recaptured and enslaved again.

You were never enslaved in this country. You and many others seem to forget that. Most of my family were killed in the Holocaust, but that doesn't mean Germans should have respect for me or even my family who were killed.

Btw...if the US is so unfair to you and you really hate the situation, maybe moving to another country is your answer.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by OK2HateMe

Even if your stats are true, it's not logical. Should I look at every white guy in America as a racist and continue to expect Affirmative Action? It's a two-way street.

They don't look at every black person as a criminal, they are just more suspicious of black people than white people, which is logical, considering statistically, black men commit 7 times the crime compared to the average white male.

Your analogy makes no sense. White people in the US are probably less racist than black people are. So if you look at every white man as a racist, then every black person must be racist as well.

So, you're telling me it is OK to stop every black person that crosses Main Street because doctored statistics show that black men are 7 times more likely to commit a crime? Just on looks. So that means, I should be afraid of all white people because they are 95% more likely to be serial killers.

Yes, that's about how ridiculous you sound.


mod edit: fixed misplaced quote-tag

[edit on 2007/3/1 by Hellmutt]

Originally posted by OK2HateMe

So, you're telling me it is OK to stop every black person that crosses Main Street because doctored statistics show that black men are 7 times more likely to commit a crime? Just on looks. So that means, I should be afraid of all white people because they are 95% more likely to be serial killers.

Yes, that's about how ridiculous you sound.

I never said they should stop every black person, but based on statistics, being more suspicious of black people is logical. That is all. You are the one adding the other stuff.

I think you need to check your statistics about white people and serial killers But if that was true, and serial killers were like 20% of the white population. Then police should be more suspicious of white people than black people.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

Originally posted by OK2HateMe


It kills me how people from other countries come to America by choice to make their dreams come true but still have no respect for others who were enslaved in this country and forcibly brought here and could be killed and shot for looking at a white person in the face. While some worked hard to make ends meet and earn their freedom, only to be recaptured and enslaved again.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

You were never enslaved in this country. You and many others seem to forget that. Most of my family were killed in the Holocaust, but that doesn't mean Germans should have respect for me or even my family who were killed.

Btw...if the US is so unfair to you and you really hate the situation, maybe moving to another country is your answer.

How did I know you were going to make that last comment? Oh, that's right - Your ignorance!

You seem to have it confused. You don't read well. I never once said I hated this country or was enslaved in this country. Just like you were never a part of the Holocaust. All I did was talk about my personal experiences that you will never have to endure because of your pale skin. My dark skin will rarely let me pass so easily because as you see it, it's ok for me to be racially profiled at every street corner. I love this country as I mentioned in my first post. But since this forum is about racism, this is what I'm here to discuss. Unfortunately, the country that I love has a few issues that I wish i could change. And fortunately, you don't have any experiences to back up your comments.

Listen, I will never argue that the Holocaust was not an awful act. I still get tears when I watch documentaries. It was horrible. But that's what makes us different. I can relate my ancestors' pain and suffering to your ancestors'. In a lot of ways it was similar. Except that this country came to the Jews defense early on. So I can see why you have so much loyalty. Didn't Jews get some form of reparation as well? Right, thought so.

Before you start going there, i don't believe black people should ask for the reparations this country promised us... we should work for it and earn it like everyone else should. This way we can say we did it without a hand out. It would mean more this way.

But to answer your question, I have been considering another country for my 3rd house.

Originally posted by OK2HateMe
Didn't Jews get some form of reparation as well? Right, thought so.

Yeah they are given reparations from the German government. The actual people who were affected. You are not affected from slavery. I don't believe the German government should give me any reparations though. That wouldn't make sense, as I was not affected.

I am not saying having white skin is not easier than having black skin...anywhere. Even in Ethiopia, lighter the better. Asia is not kind to black people and neither are the Arabs {whom are basically Asian}.

But that isn't an excuse for the position that the majority of blacks have installed themselves in. Modern music and movies are real poison for the black community, yet so many seem to relish that image [the ghetto gangsta]. Many portray themselves in a bad light which affects the respectful upstanding black people. Sad but true. You and moderate Muslims seem to be in the same boat.

And about the profiling...you keep adding that little tid bit that I am saying police should stop black people. I am saying that cops should observe black people with more suspicion. If white people did commit 95% of serial murders (your strange statistic), and 20% of the white population were serial killers, you would bet that I would call for white people to be profiled. Not all white people being accused of being a serial killer, but more suspicion of white people being a serial killer as opposed to black people.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor


Yeah they are given reparations from the German government. The actual people who were affected. You are not affected from slavery. I don't believe the German government should give me any reparations though. That wouldn't make sense, as I was not affected.

Exactly Retinoid! Finally something we can both agree on instead of arguing for pages on... Do Jews nowadays in America demand Germany to give them REPARATIONS? NO, none of them do... so how can you even use that to justify blacks NOWADAYS get money from the gov't?

And about the profiling...you keep adding that little tid bit that I am saying police should stop black people. I am saying that cops should observe black people with more suspicion. If white people did commit 95% of serial murders (your strange statistic), and 20% of the white population were serial killers, you would bet that I would call for white people to be profiled. Not all white people being accused of being a serial killer, but more suspicion of white people being a serial killer as opposed to black people.

So true... I mean, of course it isn't right just to pull any random black guy over and search him; but if it were SUSPICIOUS, then is it really the cops fault for better protecting society? It's not even RACE that has to do with it anymore, it's PRESENTATION. Black guys are MORE LIKELY to be wearing "gangsta" clothing and honestly, if you were a cop, wouldn't you keep a more careful eye on them?

For example, if there was a white guy dressing in ghetto clothing and walking in a certain way, compared to a black guy who was dressed nicely, cleanly, and presented himself normally, I WOULD BE SUSPICIOUS of the white guy.

It's not really about race, it's about PRESENTATION. Black guys just often tend to be more... "gangsta - looking?"

And throw in the fact that Black guys are more likely to commit crimes (nearly 50% of homicides in the U.S. involve a young Black male; scary statistics eh?) and do you honestly expect COMPLETE lack of suspicion from cops?




[edit on 2-3-2007 by k4rupt]

I seen this on the news and I was surprised he didnt get fired. He made it seem that all african-american people are just mean to all asian people... well I'm african-american and urban, Im a teen.... My bestfriend is asian-american which proves my point that we are not biased to asians... everyone gets treated the same in the "ghetto" even black people get treated like that in the "ghetto"... Just today I was getting on the muni metro(public train in san francisco) and the african-american women that lets you in was telling an asian women that did not really understand what she was saying because she didnt know much english where to catch her train and how to get off. well she was explaining and she was telling her with a little annoyed kind of way but I felt for her because she was trying to explain to her for about a minute and there was a line forming but she didnt yell at her or tell her to go away she just was explaing everything in detail so the women would not get lost... when she was done the lady said thank you and she said your welcome and her boyfriend which was a white man I think told the women that she didnt have to get an attitude when she was telling her which resulted in us having to wait even longer because he wanted to pick a unneccasery fight she was just trying to do her job and keep everything moving and we were forming a pretty long line I mean if someone is not understanding you and your telling them in detail so many times you would get a lil annoyed but she didnt give her attitude so that guy had no right to say that.... And if she couldnt understand why couldnt he just have asked? I dont get people gosh.

Originally posted by speedyme1
I seen this on the news and I was surprised he didnt get fired.

He did get fired, and so will all the editors who let this slip... this DID NOT GO UNNOTICED. even House Speaker Pelosi issued a statement regarding this matter.

Just today I was getting on the muni metro(public train in san francisco)...

I used to take MUNI everyday... I remember one time when a group of African-Americans were all picking on and beating up this ONE, quiet and shy Asian girl... and the sad part is, if your a San Franciscan and went to the more "diverse" schools, you'd understand how GENERALLY blacks treat Asians - it's not very pretty.

Of course I'm not saying all people are like that; and you are a great example of many other groups of friends that are cmopletely interracial. But lets be real here, go talk to Asian-American kids in elementary to high school and ask them what are THERE experiences with African-American kids... it's NOT pretty.




[edit on 2-3-2007 by k4rupt]

go talk to Asian-American kids in elementary to high school and ask them what are THERE experiences with African-American kids... it's NOT pretty.

Its not just african american kides picking on asains. Actually, at the high school I go to the whites pick on asian kides more. I still remember one day in one of my classes, the exhange student from korea was absent. I heard so many racial slurs about her it made me sick to my stomach. Its also the same with arab american students. The white students are so vicious towards them its disturbing.

Originally posted by jsobecky The infighting is gonna be our downfall, I'm telling you.

Wow, jso, I am impressed. And this isn't the first post of yours lately I am impressed by.

Originally posted by k4rupt

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor

[edit on 2-3-2007 by k4rupt]

Exactly Retinoid! Finally something we can both agree on instead of arguing for pages on... Do Jews nowadays in America demand Germany to give them REPARATIONS? NO, none of them do... so how can you even use that to justify blacks NOWADAYS get money from the gov't?

You and Retinoid are so busy trying to prove a point that you are not following what I am saying. My point is, at least Germany made reparations to a group of people they made suffer. Which I believe is still insufficient, but at least they tried to put a good foot forward to help mend the psychological, physical, and emotional suffering the Jews had to endure. These reparations helped a group of people who ended up with nothing get back on their feet. Whereas, America promised... I repeat "PROMISED" reparations of 40 acres and mule to slaves to help them get back on their feet so they could earn wages and support themselves through farming on their land and trade... But never followed through. Do you not think this would have put black people in a better position? This would have showed black people that America is sorry for what happened and that we are, in deed equal, because they are giving us a fair chance to live and earn side by side. You can't tell me you are not affected by the reparations your ancestors received. It is a trickle down affect. Just like alcoholism and physical abuse... More often than not, it gets passed down through the children. Reparations work the same way because the parent is better able to provide for their young and so on and so forth. Reparations just gives the disadvantaged group a fair chance. I'm shocked you don't see that.

So true... I mean, of course it isn't right just to pull any random black guy over and search him; but if it were SUSPICIOUS, then is it really the cops fault for better protecting society? It's not even RACE that has to do with it anymore, it's PRESENTATION. Black guys are MORE LIKELY to be wearing "gangsta" clothing and honestly, if you were a cop, wouldn't you keep a more careful eye on them?

It's a proven fact that a lot of the black men put in jail never did the crime. They were just easy escape goats. I'm not saying "all" but I am saying a lot. The judicial system is not perfect. And I'm not a slacker when it comes to putting crooks in jail. I believe if you did the crime then you should do the time... but a lot of the men in jail don't belong there... and as I mentioned earlier, it's been proven that black people get stiffer penalties for doing the same crime a white person might do.

Racial profiling is based on race. That's why it is called "RACIAL PROFILING". The clothing we wear has very little to do with it. It's just easier to point us out. I live in NYC and I find that just as many white guys wear the same clothing and style that a lot of the black guys wear. When I go home to the suburbs in NJ I see the same thing. When I'm in Miami, NC, North and South Cali, I see it just the same. The hip-hop culture of dress has spread to suburban America and yet, blacks still get profiled more. So, K4Rupt, your point is weak in your statement.

Just face it, the scales are unblalnced and always will be until people of all races with your beliefs stop generalizing. There are bad apples in every bunch and there people without the same opportunities, with education being number 1.

Originally posted by OK2HateMe
Whereas, America promised... I repeat "PROMISED" reparations of 40 acres and mule to slaves to help them get back on their feet so they could earn wages and support themselves through farming on their land and trade...

Ah... using that as an excuse for the widespread crime, poverty, and lack of education many blacks have? There IS NO excuse. Look at Asian-Americans.. most came with barley anything in their pockets and NO ENGLISh at all AND YET that minority group makes 20% more money than the avg. white family, although only 5% of the population make up nearly 20% of the IVY SCHOOL population, and is the least likely BY FAR to commit crimes and end up in prison. Are you going to tell me Asians weren't discriminated as much as blacks? DON'T USE slavery as an excuse for present-day "black problems."

It's a proven fact that a lot of the black men put in jail never did the crime. They were just easy escape goats. I'm not saying "all" but I am saying a lot. The judicial system is not perfect. And I'm not a slacker when it comes to putting crooks in jail.

Woah... you're kidding me? The fact that black men are 7x more likely to end up in jail and the FACT that 50% of homicides involve young black men... are all nothing but "a white man's lie" to use blacks as a scapegoat?

Give me a break... seriously!

Racial profiling is based on race. That's why it is called "RACIAL PROFILING". The clothing we wear has very little to do with it. It's just easier to point us out. I live in NYC and I find that just as many white guys wear the same clothing and style that a lot of the black guys wear. When I go home to the suburbs in NJ I see the same thing. When I'm in Miami, NC, North and South Cali, I see it just the same. The hip-hop culture of dress has spread to suburban America and yet, blacks still get profiled more. So, K4Rupt, your point is weak in your statement.

Just face it, the scales are unblalnced and always will be until people of all races with your beliefs stop generalizing. There are bad apples in every bunch and there people without the same opportunities, with education being number 1.

Like Retinoid said... blacks are much more likely, in terms of statistics, to be involved in crime and homicide than any other ethnic group. It's simple logic... For example, if statistics show that teenagers are 100x more likely to steal something from a store than say a senior; and you were a store owner, which group of people would you keep a closer eye on? Thought so...



[edit on 3-3-2007 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by k4rupt

Originally posted by OK2HateMe

Ah... using that as an excuse for the widespread crime, poverty, and lack of education many blacks have? There IS NO excuse. Look at Asian-Americans.. most came with barley anything in their pockets and NO ENGLISh at all AND YET that minority group makes 20% more money than the avg. white family, although only 5% of the population make up nearly 20% of the IVY SCHOOL population, and is the least likely BY FAR to commit crimes and end up in prison. Are you going to tell me Asians weren't discriminated as much as blacks? DON'T USE slavery as an excuse for present-day "black problems."

You're ignorant if you think it doesn't play a part. You need to do a little more research. Actually there are studies at several IVY League institutions that came up with the same conclusion. I'll help you out, you can start with the research that UCLA is working on. I'm not saying that the current problems we inflict on ourselves as black people is ok... But I do have an understanding where it came from. Again, you'll never understand because YOU yourself never had to face this type of discrimination. Also, You keep comparing black people to Asians and Jews... You forget one major detail. THEY ARE HERE BECAUSE THEY CHOSE TO BE HERE for whatever their reason. Black people were forced to come in chains! Broken up from their families! Sold as trade meat! And babies stripped from their mothers! Whipped and beaten! But I'm sure you dont think that 400 years of this brutality doesn't cause any psychological disarray. You can not compare any other race's history in this country with the history of black people.

Woah... you're kidding me? The fact that black men are 7x more likely to end up in jail and the FACT that 50% of homicides involve young black men... are all nothing but "a white man's lie" to use blacks as a scapegoat?

First of all, you got your stats from Retinoid. You don't know that number as fact. Secondly, if you read my comments thoroughly, you would have saw that I said "a lot" and not "all". There is a problem within the black community. All I'm saying is that it get exaggerated. Boy would I love to dress you up as a black man for one day so you can see for yourself. You talk a good game but you'd never be able to handle it.

Like Retinoid said... blacks are much more likely, in terms of statistics, to be involved in crime and homicide than any other ethnic group. It's simple logic... For example, if statistics show that teenagers are 100x more likely to steal something from a store than say a senior; and you were a store owner, which group of people would you keep a closer eye on? Thought so...

I would watch them all the same. I can honestly say, that I take my life's experiences of racism and stereo types and don't project them on any other group because I know what it feel like. It's real easy to fall into the trap you and Retinoid have. That's not a good place to be. It's obvious ignorance is bliss for you.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
OK2HateMe:
[edit on 3-3-2007 by RetinoidReceptor]

PS> Don't give K4rupt that bs about how it is so hard to be black. K4rupt and I have both faced discrimination. The reason why you have it harder than we do (as being white and asian) is because of the way many of your race act and portray themselves. Blame white people all you want and the government, but that will not get any black people out of the hole but only dig it deeper. That is what many of you and the rest of the Al Sharptons and Jesse Jacksons fail to realize.

LOL.. Since you like to speak for K4Rupt, you say you've both face discrimination but the two of you act like it's okay to place it on others. I don't understand this? How did you feel when you were discriminated against? Do you think you deserved it? Don't you think it only spreads the hate? But yet you're condoning it to happen to other people. You're just a part of the problem, not the solution. Also, don't twist my words. I never said that Asians don't have it hard. I only spoke about them coming to America by choice and not forced bound by chains. I know they get it just as hard as any other minoritygroup that have to deal with racists like you and K4Rupt. The thing is, I have friends of all national backgrounds and hurts me to see any of them discriminated against because of their color, religion, culture or race. My god-mother is white italian straight off the boat in the 1950's. I have Asian friends that feel the same way I do about white discriminators in this country. I have white friends that openly speak to me about the injustice they see. I have muslim friends as well as Jewish friends. And the list goes on... I respect everyone the same based by the content of their individual character. Something that is foreign to the both of you.

Originally posted by OK2HateMe
I know they get it just as hard as any other minoritygroup that have to deal with racists like you and K4Rupt.

Calling others racist is what many black people do best. No matter what happens you'll always have the race card. Unfortunately, the reason why you use it so much is because that is all most black people have. It isn't anyone's fault but your own. Play the blame game all you want, but nobody is listening minus yourselves.

We're not discriminating against you... we're just sick and tired of the fact that people like you blame problems in the black community on "white people" or things that happened SO LONG ago.

Seriously, you're saying the reasons why Jews and Asians are SO MUCH (there isn't even a need to describe it is there?) better off in America than blacks are is because Jews and Asians "chose" to come here whereas blacks were forced? Give me a break man... YOU weren't forced on a boat here in chains... YOU and are just like me. We were both born in this country and have faced discrimination growing up here so how can you tell me you are any different from me? Explain THAT.

Just face it, there's a problem in the black community, everyone knows that. Crime, poverty, teen pregnancy etc... is it really even necessary to pull out the alarming statistics that prove this?

You and your people can do two things now - try and fix the problem or continue blaming others for it. However, with that kind of mindset that you have ok2hate... it doesn't seem like your people are heading anywhere different anytime soon; and that's just so sad.




[edit on 4-3-2007 by k4rupt]

Do you think a self described white supremacist would ever be allowed to write about his racism in such a cosmopolitan city? The fact that this guys written similar opinion pieces and this one was also published, doesn't say much for the paper's integrity. I think the only reason they're apologizing now is because this time someone called them on it.

I've always had the impression that many Asians are arrogant, thinking themselves above the rest of us. Also, I think they are the least likely group to mix with other races.

But don't assume I'm racist for stating an observation. My best friend for 15 years until his death 4 years ago, was Filipino. Growing up I had more close friends that were Asian, Black or Hispanic then White. I'm a product of Berkeley's 1970's hippie culture. I chose allies based on their politics not their culture.