unholy christmas

Originally posted by helen670
Christmas~

Until the 4th century this Feast was kept on January 6, when the Church also remembered the Baptism of Our Lord in the River Jordan.
It was called the Theophony and was dedicated especially to the manifestation of God in the flesh. ("Theophany" means the "showing forth of God.")

The early Church knew that there was a mystical relationship between the first and the Second Adam, between the one that brought death into the world and the One Who brought life and salvation.

According to very ancient tradition, Christ, the "Second Adam," was born on the same day on which Adam, the first-created one, was born--that is, on the "Sixth Day," which corresponded to the sixth day of the first month (January 6th on the Julian Calendar).

I was born on the Sixth day of the first month.
Funny eh?

EDIT: Sorry for quoting the whole hting.

[Edited on 21-12-2003 by �any]

Originally posted by �any
The imported Pagan traditions are more #ing important than the #ing Christian ones, I found that comment highly #ing insulting.

so sensitive! i apologize.
yet, you misunderstand me. i mean they suck from a christian standpoint. it is supposed to be a christian holiday. do you call it paganmas?
if it were a pagan holiday and people were kissing the pope's ring, wouldn't that suck?
i'm not saying anything against pagans or paganism. i respect anything that is respectful. i have nothing against any religion(as long as no blood is spilled, that is). once again, it's the hypocracy that turns my stomach. that and the fact that it's such an unavoidable holiday.
if you decide you don't want to 'give' christmas to your children, your family and freinds will ostrasize the piss out of you. even if they've never been to church and could give a rat's ass about faith. they'll also intrude, to make sure that the children aren't 'deprived', by buying them gifts and images of satan clause and other idols.
it's the worst, being virtually forced to buy things you can't afford for people who don't need it. what would christ say?
even deep is greedy for presents. what would the buddha say? the only religion that promotes material desire is satanism(that i know of).
it would be wonderful if people celebrated christ and tried to be christlike at christmas. REALLY wonderful. instead it is more akin to a stampede of lemmings tripping over each other to jump off the cliff. oh, well. c'est le vie.

Originally posted by drunk

Originally posted by Helioform
Keep in mind though that the Holidays/Christmas is the only period of the year when many stores actually make a profit.

Yeah from poor suckers who like to spend hard earned cash and blow it all in a day!~

drunk! your crystal clear thinking is making sense. you need another drink(at LEAST one!).

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by �any
The imported Pagan traditions are more #ing important than the #ing Christian ones, I found that comment highly #ing insulting.

so sensitive! i apologize.
yet, you misunderstand me. i mean they suck from a christian standpoint. it is supposed to be a christian holiday. do you call it paganmas?
if it were a pagan holiday and people were kissing the pope's ring, wouldn't that suck?
i'm not saying anything against pagans or paganism. i respect anything that is respectful. i have nothing against any religion(as long as no blood is spilled, that is). once again, it's the hypocracy that turns my stomach. that and the fact that it's such an unavoidable holiday.
if you decide you don't want to 'give' christmas to your children, your family and freinds will ostrasize the piss out of you. even if they've never been to church and could give a rat's ass about faith. they'll also intrude, to make sure that the children aren't 'deprived', by buying them gifts and images of satan clause and other idols.
it's the worst, being virtually forced to buy things you can't afford for people who don't need it. what would christ say?
even deep is greedy for presents. what would the buddha say? the only religion that promotes material desire is satanism(that i know of).
it would be wonderful if people celebrated christ and tried to be christlike at christmas. REALLY wonderful. instead it is more akin to a stampede of lemmings tripping over each other to jump off the cliff. oh, well. c'est le vie.

It's NOT just supposed to be a Christian holiday at all. It has its roots in Pagan traditions, Midwinter festivals, Saturnalia and all that, you know?
If you don't like the Pagan traditions then don't observe them, it's not hard to do.
Me I'll ignore the Christian traditions and observe the Pagan ones thanks.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
billybob

You are on a roll. Look at what you bring out.

well... i take no pride in it. i just feel it's something people should think about. my intention is not to hurt or insult anyone.

There is a separate and distinct programming going on through Christian churches as opposed to mass merchandising retail culture. Sometimes I imagine that many people feel a conflict between them over what we ought to be thinking at Christmas.

kinda tears you up inside, doesn't it charlie brown.

Hasn't Christmas become an enforced family time, when you strip back all the religious and commercial trimmings?

enforced! that's a strong word. but, HELL YEAH!

The quality of the experience in many ways is governed by the quality of the family dynamic. Joy and happiness can exist in families reunited by this tradition every year. Especially in seeing the growing of children. Or, where family members treat each other like sh*t all year, then it may end up being a day of prolonged guilt or the seeking of absolution. What's your family like?

we are ALWAYS joyous!

Christmas can be a difficult period too, for those alone or ostracized from family for whatever reason.

in my past i experienced this, and it is where i began to see the unholiday from a different perpective. my parents don't get it. i can't stop them from making christmas happen, unless i just stay away, which i don't because it's one of the few times that everybody's free at the same time(ANOTHER CONSPIRACY!! damn time-stealers).

The spirit of Christmas may have most to do with how you perceive someone you don't like, or don't even know, on the day. And after.

i have taken the spirit of christmas out of christmas, where it belongs. in my heart everyday, i exalt in creator and creation. i give unconditionally always. i never expect others to give to me. i try to treat EVERYONE with respect(this is a hard one!). i give to the homeless. and i live in the service of peace.

Originally posted by �any


It's NOT just supposed to be a Christian holiday at all. It has its roots in Pagan traditions, Midwinter festivals, Saturnalia and all that, you know?
If you don't like the Pagan traditions then don't observe them, it's not hard to do.
Me I'll ignore the Christian traditions and observe the Pagan ones thanks.

Rock on Dany, I like your viewpoint there.

My biggest problem stemming from the Christian holiday this time of year is that the only people who respect my religion are my best friend and my girlfriend, they recognize that I'm not a Christian. My entire family will recognize that I am not Christian until Christmas, then I am more or less forced to take part in their festivities for their holiday. My two main problems with this holiday are that the roots stem from Pagan festivals, and that whether a person is of the Christian faith or not, (in my area at least) they are expected to celebrate it.

Originally posted by billybob
the date's wrong.
the message is wrong.
the traditions are pagan.
it is a time of greed.
a time of jealousy.
the 'spirit of christmas' has been ripped to shreds by commercialism.
people who no longer believe in christ, do believe that to 'deprive' a child of christmas is some kind of a crime. people of other religions indulge in the rituals of christmas.
the original date was set to match saturnalia. saturn is father time or kronos. santa is satan. also known as saturn, father time, kronos. lord of the material world.
the tree and the yule log are pagan traditions related to 'the green man', the fertility god of paganism(i think, if i remember correctly).
much the same as easter overlaps oster.
the vatican is about as unchristian as you can get. they are in direct contradiction to the teachings of christ. the pope is NOT infallible. he is NOT the earthly representative of the lord. not by any stretch.
it makes me sick, watching the world fall prey to such manipulation.
mass mind control, nothing less.

p.s. i believe in a true christ. i think he would agree with me. whah-who dor-ay, wah-who dor-ay.

All I can say is: RIGHT ON!

Originally posted by �any

It's NOT just supposed to be a Christian holiday at all. It has its roots in Pagan traditions, Midwinter festivals, Saturnalia and all that, you know?
If you don't like the Pagan traditions then don't observe them, it's not hard to do.
Me I'll ignore the Christian traditions and observe the Pagan ones thanks.

HAPPY SATURNALIA!!!!

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by �any

It's NOT just supposed to be a Christian holiday at all. It has its roots in Pagan traditions, Midwinter festivals, Saturnalia and all that, you know?
If you don't like the Pagan traditions then don't observe them, it's not hard to do.
Me I'll ignore the Christian traditions and observe the Pagan ones thanks.

HAPPY SATURNALIA!!!!

You're a bit late but thanks mate.

I loathe buying the xmas presents cos what if the person you are buying them for doesnt like them??

Winter solstice for 2003 will occur at 11:04 pm PST on December 21.
www.candlegrove.com...

BG

I think that X-mas is purely a commercial holiday. . I think that for a lot of "sunday" christians, its the only time they feel guilty enough about not going to church that they actually go. I think that it shoudl be more correctly termed as a winter festival or winter holiday,,,

Originally posted by groovyguru
I think that X-mas is purely a commercial holiday. . I think that for a lot of "sunday" christians, its the only time they feel guilty enough about not going to church that they actually go. I think that it shoudl be more correctly termed as a winter festival or winter holiday,,,

Christmas is whatever you want it to be.

Originally posted by helen670
Christmas~

Until the 4th century this Feast was kept on January 6, when the Church also remembered the Baptism of Our Lord in the River Jordan.

Man! Have they ever done anything but seeking to kill Jezjuah? If you are an infant born outside in the Middle East when they say it happened, it would possibly die. If you bathe during winter in the same area you would possibly die, atleast the baptist who was standing in the water all the time. I have said it a million times before: Jezjuah wasn't born during winter. To say that would be to wish him dead. Period. The main festival of the Roman Sungod Sol was 25th of December in the Western empire, alternately 6th of January in the East. It's nothing but a coverup, a wolf dressed in sheep's cloathing. Are you all freakin' blind? Sometimes I wish for death and darkness uppon those bastards. They treat everything divine and sacred as if it was their own. Well it is not and it never will be! Jezjuah was killed because of this whoredom of those who said they were his wife. Some wife ha? She has slept with every enemy of Christ which exists.

It was called the Theophony and was dedicated especially to the manifestation of God in the flesh. ("Theophany" means the "showing forth of God.")

And who was their God? They managed to "proove" for Coinstantine that it was Sol Invictvs, the Roman Ba'al Sebul, popularily called Lord of the Flies or Beelzebul and Satan. Jezjuah was killed as the spawn of Satan thanks to the Church, for the spirit of the Curia/Church is like any other spirit, it knows no borders in time. It witness back and forth. And their witness is a false witness. Jezjuah was the Son of Man. Since when did Man ever give birth to the Sun? The phonetics in the word Sun is even close to identical with Son. Get the picture? Jezjuah is the Light, not the Sun which carries it. I know I have said other things before, but I'm not God who knows everything: I learn as long as I live. My knowledge increases every day. The Church is seeking to give birth to Satan. Well he'll fall down in their back yard one of these days, I'm sure.

The early Church knew that there was a mystical relationship between the first and the Second Adam, between the one that brought death into the world and the One Who brought life and salvation.

Are you saying that Adam fell together with Eve here? That Jezjuah died the second death? The second Adam was Abel who was slain by his brother Cain who was after the Law the slave of God being the firstborn. The third Adam was Seth who was put in the place of Abel. Seth and Abel were sons of Adam who were identical with Adam. The name Adam means Man and he was created in the Image of God, he was the likeness of God. The chain goes on and on. Besides, Adam ate from the hand of Eve. Eve means Life. Adam ate from the Tree of Life, Eve ate from the Tree of Wisdom. The soul of Adam was transported up to Heaven, he never fell, for he ate from the Tree of Life. The Earth got his curse instead of him, for he was still rightious in the eyes of God. He didn't die, he just fell asleep. His soul carried on and still lives.

According to very ancient tradition, Christ, the "Second Adam," was born on the same day on which Adam, the first-created one, was born--that is, on the "Sixth Day," which corresponded to the sixth day of the first month (January 6th on the Julian Calendar).

Then I advise you to look in the Torah and see when the first day of the Jewish calendar is: It is two weeks before Passover. Alternately in the oposite tradition, Creation happened half a year earlier or later, whatever, but never during winter. The calendar of Rome is a perversion, yes a death sentance uppon everyone who believes in them. Period!

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 22-12-2003 by mikromarius]

Originally posted by helen670
According to very ancient tradition, Christ, the "Second Adam," was born on the same day on which Adam, the first-created one, was born--that is, on the "Sixth Day," which corresponded to the sixth day of the first month (January 6th on the Julian Calendar).

Are you refering to the calendar of Julius C�asar here? He built his calendar around the Egyptian solar calendar. However, it didn't start on 1st of January. It started 1st of March. The last day of the year was 28th or 29th of February every fourth year. The two witnesses are traditionally Heaven and Earth, other traditions keeps the Sun and the Moon and there are even more variants around. They are not physically the Sun and the Moon, but they are witnessing or reflecting the Light who is Jezjuah. They may also be Keymah (called the Pleiades or the Seven Sisters in this world) and Keziel (called Orion or the Soul of Osiris in this world).

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by mikromarius

Originally posted by helen670
According to very ancient tradition, Christ, the "Second Adam," was born on the same day on which Adam, the first-created one, was born--that is, on the "Sixth Day," which corresponded to the sixth day of the first month (January 6th on the Julian Calendar).

Are you refering to the calendar of Julius C�asar here? He built his calendar around the Egyptian solar calendar. However, it didn't start on 1st of January. It started 1st of March. The last day of the year was 28th or 29th of February every fourth year. The two witnesses are traditionally Heaven and Earth, other traditions keeps the Sun and the Moon and there are even more variants around. They are not physically the Sun and the Moon, but they are witnessing or reflecting the Light who is Jezjuah. They may also be Keymah (called the Pleiades or the Seven Sisters in this world) and Keziel (called Orion or the Soul of Osiris in this world).

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Dammit, shut uuuup, I get to be born on a really important date if you stop disproving things!

Jezus was a clone.. As he has been made as in an image of "god".
Using arificial insimination (we call it in holland K.I.) kept
maria loosing her virginity.
the star above bethlehem was a starship of somekind orbiting earths atmosphere.
In it was the father of Jezus. It kept close to earth and when Jezus died it became dark because of the ship blocking the suns light.
They came to look why they didn't get any life signs from Jezus.

The question is, so #ing what?

Oddly enough....I agree. Big Deal?

I'm not a Christian, yet I celebrate Christmas. I celebrate it because it is fun. I celebrate it as a time when people try to be the people they WANT to be, instead of the people they are. So what if the rituals are pagan in origin?

Bah....Jesus would probably say...."Ok, so it's my birthday party....where are my presents?"

Originally posted by Gazrok

The question is, so #ing what?

Oddly enough....I agree. Big Deal?

I'm not a Christian, yet I celebrate Christmas. I celebrate it because it is fun. I celebrate it as a time when people try to be the people they WANT to be, instead of the people they are. So what if the rituals are pagan in origin?

Bah....Jesus would probably say...."Ok, so it's my birthday party....where are my presents?"

HELLFIRE!! SULPHUR AND BRIMSTONE! you will burn and your entrails will be ripped from your inards and your guts and intestines and general abdominal area! your flesh will be rended by razor teeth! demons will dance on you severed head singing paul anka tunes in your ears for eternity while visions of geraldo will fill your eyes and the scent of lysol will fill your nostrils! the lord of the underworld will ask your mother out on a date! you will never be able to find your keys! it will be really quite bad.

seriously though the demons will just eat your soul.

really seriously though, jesus doesn't want presents, he would prefer people gave that money to the poor. i had a freind who used to give reciepts for donations to charities that she had made in the persons name. people were generally pissed. greed day they should call it.

there was an assault in a local parking lot over a parking space yesterday. that's the spirit of santamas for ya.

HELLFIRE!! SULPHUR AND BRIMSTONE! you will burn and your entrails will be ripped from your inards and your guts and intestines and general abdominal area! your flesh will be rended by razor teeth! demons will dance on you severed head singing paul anka tunes in your ears for eternity while visions of geraldo will fill your eyes and the scent of lysol will fill your nostrils! the lord of the underworld will ask your mother out on a date! you will never be able to find your keys! it will be really quite bad.

Gee darn....oh well...guess I won't feel much, as you see....I'll be dead. I suspect it will be an amusing visual though, and sounds far more interesting than sitting on clouds playing a harp (never was very good at stringed instruments anyways). Besides, I'm sure I'd get censured for trying to scrape up some of that golden road anyhow.....(not to mention the pearl in those gates....just why are there oysters in heaven anyways?)....

Actually, truth be told, just because I'm not a Christian, doesn't make me evil. In fact, I'd wager you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who said I wasn't basically a good guy. I know that I've personally seen several Christians march right on by a Salvation Army guy ringing a bell, while I was tossing in my loose change. Yep, guess I'm going to hell alright. To be honest, if God is that petty....then by all means, I'll jump head first into the lake of fire myself, hehe.....