what more can i say besides... thats some freaky crap.

So strange that you post this thread, becasue I saw the same thing when I heard of the new spiral building....Tower of Babel....interesting

What did you expected? If what we read is true, this whole #ing country is runned by Masons.

What we need here....is an actual motive.

There's no bunch of Masons sitting in an underground cave with their paddles and capes thinking 'As long as the WTC has fallen we may as weel put up a giant crystal for absolutely no reason.' What's the crystal going to do? Blind us with pretty sparkles? I think is is just something having to do with an overly patriotic America. If we're worried about anything I think it should be the crappy name.

Freedom Tower, ha....

Originally posted by FunkTSkunk
What we need here....is an actual motive.

There's no bunch of Masons sitting in an underground cave with their paddles and capes thinking 'As long as the WTC has fallen we may as weel put up a giant crystal for absolutely no reason.' What's the crystal going to do? Blind us with pretty sparkles? I think is is just something having to do with an overly patriotic America. If we're worried about anything I think it should be the crappy name.

Freedom Tower, ha....

It is a pretty bloody corny name. I agree with the rest of your post too.

Originally posted by FunkTSkunk
What we need here....is an actual motive.

There's no bunch of Masons sitting in an underground cave with their paddles and capes thinking 'As long as the WTC has fallen we may as weel put up a giant crystal for absolutely no reason.' What's the crystal going to do? Blind us with pretty sparkles? I think is is just something having to do with an overly patriotic America. If we're worried about anything I think it should be the crappy name.

Freedom Tower, ha....

Well, what do you expect them to do exactly. Build a obviously evil and spooky ass temple with a big horned skull and blood flowing down the walls? The idea or motive behind doing it the way they do isn't about the specific or obvious but about a much more timeless and traditional way. That is the whole principal and foundation of Preserving a Tradition or Cultural Presents. Think about the important and detailed methods and manners and rituals of Religious Orders and how they conduct themselves. Every little detail has some reason or another of why it is the way it is but to anyone who hasn't spent time understanding the deep meaning behind it all it doesn't make sense or seems somewhat abstract and pointless. Think of it like trying to understand professors or historians or scientist without the having been schooled to the extent they have.

Think about the fact that throughout history there are certain consepts and symbols that always carry a similar meaning. Various cultures separated by distance and time have tales and stories of myth which are basically the same story told in a different way. The more universally aware you become of certain ideas the more clear and universal things start becoming. For example take something like Space and Planetary Rotations and formations and all the math and physics behind it all along with the different philisophical possibilities that go along with it. At a certain point a type of rythum that is found and a harmonious dance of frequency and cycles that were invisible before but now stand out like some incredibly powerful force. There is mathematical beauty and intelligent design that once seen leaves one with a feeling of awe and humility for the fact that it was hidden for so long. That is where the motives are found. It's found in the missing pages between Alchemy and Chemistry that cannot be expressed in simple or logical ways.

Mojom,

good work and I hope I didn't scoop you. Surprisingly I came up with the tower of babel scenario just by a glance at the model of this thing. It was so obvious and you so rightly saw it too.

So we go from two to one. There must be symbolism in that also.

What was also interesting since I am from Toronto home of the CN tower the world's tallest freestanding structure is that this new tower in NYC is still a bit shorter than the CN tower. This seemed to be a deliberate act for some reason?

Originally posted by THENEO
Mojom,

good work and I hope I didn't scoop you. Surprisingly I came up with the tower of babel scenario just by a glance at the model of this thing. It was so obvious and you so rightly saw it too.

So we go from two to one. There must be symbolism in that also.

What was also interesting since I am from Toronto home of the CN tower the world's tallest freestanding structure is that this new tower in NYC is still a bit shorter than the CN tower. This seemed to be a deliberate act for some reason?

I don't feel scooped at all, but thanx for asking.

Personally I don't see how anyone could miss the Tower of Bable idea coming to mind when first reading about this new tower. I'm not even all that well read as far as many biblical references go and yet this was obvious to me. Upon more research is when it actually got kinda spooky in fact. Wedge of Light and World Gardens are you serious?? I had to doublecheck that I wasn't reading some crackpot's webpage of paranoid ideas just to make sure. It's kinda strange that's for sure. That or I need to spend less time at ATS, cause all this stuff is starting to make way too much sense.

I'm looking forward to when they publish more details. VR walkthroughs and stuff too and stuff like that. Plus I'm sure there are expert conspiracy guys out there that will come up with cool stuff far beyond my knowledge.

One thing that I found disturbing was the reference to the 'Bathtub" area under the old WTC where the hudson flowed into the building or something. Now they are going to have a memorial there for people to walk down through and observe the wall with names, etc. Ok, so far totally normal idea as well as respectful. It was how they described it as bodies floating everywhere like hundreds of them, in this underground "Bathtub" Room. I don't know why but picturing that whole idea is just not cool with me on some level.

I also never realized until I came across some site with pictues taken from the observation spot and roof of the old WTC that it was aligned just perfect with the Statue of Liberty. I'm west coast and never been that far east so I'm sure it's just me that found it symbolic. Just thought I'd throw that in there though.

Mr Libeskind called "a beacon of light and hope in a world that is often dark.

Obviously this new building will be a second statue of liberty. A modern symbol for a new age. Quite interesting to see more. Thank you Theneo

[Edited on 22-12-2003 by EPLURIBUSUNUM]

It will stand 1,776ft tall, in a nod to the year of the Declaration of Independence

This also just happens to be the same year Adam Weishaupt formed the Bavarian Illuminati.

My oh my. Such a bunch of sorry fools. Either do you know that the southern baptist have discovered who the masonic nwo is. At least they think. The Catholic Church!
And why the hell not. the pope with that hat? the heirarcal system and of using a dead language clearly prophetic of NWO predicitions. besides, if it's true at least i'll be part of it

ahh---but Rome Catholism has already been infilitrated.
It is the first organization that needs control ..after all..
they are the only ones that knew and have been persecuting the Freemasons et al for hundreds of years.

Sign up then. If you believe. Better to seek the light now then have it forced down unto you.

Originally posted by EPLURIBUSUNUM
ahh---but Rome Catholism has already been infilitrated.
It is the first organization that needs control ..after all..
they are the only ones that knew and have been persecuting the Freemasons et al for hundreds of years.

Sign up then. If you believe. Better to seek the light now then have it forced down unto you.

How long will it be before the light is forced on people?

Originally posted by TgSoe
How long will it be before the light is forced on people?

Ask God.

Originally posted by THENEO
Well we have all heard about it, many of us have seen pics and it is truly a beauty. The new centre piece of the WTC ground zero redevelopment site.

Personally, I think the thing's ugly and off-balance... but that's just me.

But isn't there something fishy about this building?

Yes. It's ugly. And offbalance

I mean we all know that 911 was fishy to begin with right?

No. What's fishy is that some folks will believe some of the truly lame stuff going around about it.

So tell me this why are all these masons running this redevelopment?

Name six or ten of them, please, and prove (beyond a shadow of a doubt) that they're masons. Links to their lodges would be good.

Why a building 1776 feet tall (the year of formation of the US - the NWO by the freemasons)?

Because that's the birth year of the US. And this will be a symbol of the US. So you tie it in with symbolic US things if you're a good designer.

Why so much glass and crystal (they even mention this world numerous times)?

Glass, actually. It "looks like crystal" but it's glass. They don't grow quartz crystals in sheets that big. And it's done just because every OTHER modern skyscraper is skinned with glass. Has to do with weight and so they won't fall over in the first big wind and go BOOM!

In fact much of the project is made to resemble crystal (actually many such similar projects in other major masonic cities in the world in recent years too such as Paris, Toronto as two I know of), does this have relation to Atlantis and their obsession with crystals and their qualities?

No, it has to do with the fact that 2 inches of glass weighs a lot less than 2 inches of steel-and-concrete. And 2 inches of glass is cheaper and easier to install than 2 inches of steel-and-concrete.

What about the references to the statue of liberty

Because it's our national symbol. Because making the shape resemble an eagle would be Awful Darn Impossible at 1776-plus feet high.

Why link this building to the statue of liberty in design and story?

Because it's to be a symbol of the strength of the United States. Because the statue is one of the landmarks of New York City. If it was in DC, they'd probably have done a pentagonal tower.

(sigh) Neo, you don't seem to "get" symbolism and how you develop it in art and architecture. When you're doing a building or project for a city, you add structural and detail and symbolic elements that reflect that city. If they'd done it here in Dallas, the design elements would be far different. No references to the Statue of Liberty because it's not a local Dallas landmark. It is, however, a local NYC landmark.

Why is the building referred to as a spiral (it does spiral and taper too like the famed tower at Babylon right?), and why only one tall building now?

Yes, it spirals slightly (less than one full turn.) No, it's not like the famous Tower of Babylon (which was a zuggurat and had a winding staircase structure and wasn't a full column with a twist.) And it's one tall building because that's what he submitted and the committee approved.

So tell me this, if you are with me this far, how long can the masons keep this obvious monument of theirs secret from the public, and what message does it send to the rest of us?

It sends to the rest of you that you haven't suffered through courses on How To Design Monuments That City Councils Will Approve. Seriously.

And that you haven't actually gone into any strongly Masonic buildings; like the lodges. Sorry, old bean, but they prefer the more classic style with heavy use of concrete ornamentation and "crystals" don't figure anywhere. That's new-age. The Masons are rather traditional and they seem to be concrete-and-marble junkies.

[Edited on 24-12-2003 by Byrd]

funny, the new design for the expansion of the royal ontario museum in toronto is a giant crystal pyramid.
funny, too, is that it's also bloody ugly.
funny, also, is that the design chosen was one that was scribbled on a serviette at a lunch meeting. this design beating out several (attractive, well thought out) designs by other high profile architects. some design 'contest'.
but, DON"T PANIC! crystal pyramids have nothing to do with masons, right? or crystal obelisks. and no organisation that was ushering in a 'golden dawn' would be concerned with 'light'. and hermeticists don't believe in atlantis, right?



[Edited on 24-12-2003 by billybob]

Its a f-cking monument. I could come up with a great conspiracy theory about how it will be used to shoot down ufo's, or maybe how it is a giant beacon used for signalling aliens...but that would be a waste of time.