Debunking the Truthers.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by lizziex3
Well I think the most compelling piece of evidence is that Dylan Avery first wrote his documentary as a fictional movie

This is the most compelling piece of evidence that 9/11 wasn't an inside job?

Do you know what logic or reason are?

I was thinking the exact same thing. This kind of thinking boggles my mind. Thank ATS for ignore.

Originally posted by nick7261

Originally posted by Reality Hurts
So this, in a nutshell, is our whole argument Nick:

Nick: 911 was an inside job
Reality: Prove it.
Nick: I can't. The government has all of the evidence.
Reality: So you can't prove it?
Nick: You're a borderline idiot to ask me for proof.

So, in reality, all you can provide is an opinion, not evidence or proof...because the government has it. Any anyone who questions you is "bordering on idiotic"?

Am I correct?

That's pretty close to correct. Not exactly, but close.

First, I didn't say it was an inside job.

Second, I didn't say that anybody that questions me is "bordering on idiotic."


Let me clarify...


The government declared that it was *NOT* in any way an inside job, outside job, or any other job, except one pulled of by bin Laden, without presenting any solid evidence that bin Laden had anything to do with 9/11.

Further, the government refuses to release evidence that could factually prove, or disprove, their claims.

And yes, it is idiotic to ask me to provide the aforementioned evidence because I don't have it.

Oh... what would be really cool to have is the all the data from the Able Danger operation that the DoD ordered destroyed, but I guess nobody will ever see that. Well at least I can read the 9/11 Commission Report where they interviewed the guys from Able Danger. What? They didn't interview them? My bad...

Then I'd love to see what docs Sandy Berger stuffed in his socks or his pants or wherever he stashed them, but since they were cut up with scissors I guess I can't see those either.

I know! Just get me the steel beams from WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 to examine. That would be useful evidence to put to rest once and for all the whole debate about CD. Oops.... too late. They were cut up into little pieces just like the papers Berger stole.

Or maybe we could interview the guy at the FAA who ordered the ATC tower in Pittsburgh evacuated, then called the military and told them that the controllers lost track of Flight 93 over Pittsburgh.

I know! How about if we had the flight data recorders from the 4 planes! That would tell us something. What? They couldn't find them all?



Oh well... I guess we'll just have to take Uncle Sam's word for it about what happened on 9/11, and who did it, even if they don't have "grandiose evidence" to back up their claims.

Nice post!

Even if all of this just leads to the greater population asking serious questions of the government (and demading evidence too), then it is worth it IMHO.

[edit on 26-2-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Nick, you're going back to this "there is no evidence, the government has it all" idea. I illustrated for you how and where to begin to look for REAL evidence, not this speculation and general conjecture that you indulge in.

Although, because you keep hammering the same points once they've been demonstrated to be invalid, I'm beginning to believe that you are more interested in being "internet cool" and trying to win this argument.

So again I say, the proof is out there, stop going down this disingenuous and myopic path and go get the real evidence.

Originally posted by Reality Hurts

Although, because you keep hammering the same points once they've been demonstrated to be invalid, I'm beginning to believe that you are more interested in being "internet cool" and trying to win this argument.

You didn't demonstrate anything to be invalid because you began your argument with a false presupposition, e.g., X is accept as fact, therefore Y must be proven with grandiose evidence.

X, being the official story, being *accepted* as fact does not make it fact. This is really very simple.

If I lie to somebody and they believe it, it doesn't make my lie the truth. If I lie to hundreds of people, and they all believe it, it still doesn't make my lie the truth.

If I lie to millions of peole, and they all believe it, that doesn't turn the lie into the truth.

Just because you and your circle of friends "accept" something as fact, doesn't make it a fact.

So again I say, the proof is out there, stop going down this disingenuous and myopic path and go get the real evidence.

The real evidence? I'm still waiting for you to show it to me. All I asked was for you to provide evidence linking bin Laden to 9/11? Where is it?

Surely for something that's been accepted as fact there must be some hard core evidence that bin Laden put the 18 arabs up to it. Where is this evidence?

PS.... as far as trying to be "internet cool," I'm not the one with an avatar of freakin Godzilla and catchy screen name like "Reality Hurts." Now THAT's COOL.....

[edit on 26-2-2007 by nick7261]

Well i'm just going to stay out of this debate. The point of this post was to give the resources to people that want them. I will say that I have looked at the WTC911research site many times and most of the BS there is debunked on 911myths. yes not ALL of it, but most of it. and did you even look at any of my links? Loose Change is just one giant fraud.

Thanks for the links, Lizziex3. I for one appreciate them.
(Regarding the: Dylan Avery blog)
I am relieved that I am not the only one that sees far right wing extremist groups such as the skinheads and other neo-nazi like cults involved in the promotion and perpetuation of this fallacy that is the "truth movement."

Originally posted by GwionX
I am relieved that I am not the only one that sees far right wing extremist groups such as the skinheads and other neo-nazi like cults involved in the promotion and perpetuation of this fallacy that is the "truth movement."

Its just too bad we do not have the FBI or NTSB reports on any of the crash scenes to support the official story.

Originally posted by Reality Hurts
The problem w/ many conspiracy theorists is that THEY, as the ones proposing a a theory that is contrary to established belief, are required to come up with empirical, tangible, and demonstrable proof.

Ahh Reality but the Sword of Truth cuts both ways. The 'Official Explanation' is equally charged with providing proof to support their version of the events of that day. Instead we've gotten opinions from 'experts' within the context of the 911 Commission Report. A Commission whse own bi-partisand leaders are less than enthusiastic about its work. No evidence. Opinions mixed with a general 'lots of stuff went worng that day' attitude. The Osama-on-Tape proof has been ripped to shreds as being a plant. 5 frames of a security video to prove the Pentagon was hit with a plane?

IMHO there's no 'prrof' either way. They're all cospiracy theories. No one has the upper hand here.

Challenge to official story supporters: Where's your proof?
www.abovetopsecret.com...