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None-believers

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posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
its not impossible, just improbable. I mean, really think about what you are suggesting. Aside from the fact that this would be treason at almost every level in our government, not just the top, it would be nearly impossible for a government to do this. It would mean that the US government has near absolute power and I just dont believe that.

Also, I have heard theories from missile strikes to hydrogen bombs, none of these theories are ever supported. You are overlooking evidence such as the prior activities of mohammed atta, the phone calls made on board the other flights, etc.



Our government now does have near absolute power. Have you heard of the patriot act yet?

Also, a lot of theories ARE supported. Such as the phone calls being made from inside the towers about bombs going off in the lower floors where the plane didn't hit.

And also I don't understand. Why does it have to be treason on all level of the government and not a small group of people?


[edit on 25-2-2007 by NegativeBeef]




posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 02:38 AM
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Dam, after all that, you
want me to watch a cartoon?


Makes me feel like this



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by NegativeBeef


Our government now does have near absolute power. Have you heard of the patriot act yet?


[edit on 25-2-2007 by NegativeBeef]


Well my friend, the patriot is post 9/11 so you cant really use that as evidence of anything.

Also, I think they were probably made after the impact because any rational person who felt that inside the building probably did think it was a bomb and called the police thinking a bomb had just gone off. Remember, not everyone in those buildings died immediately after the impact. The tower didnt collapse until a few minutes later.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 03:20 AM
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And PNAC's pre-9/11 goals were what?

We need more people mad.
I'm mad as hell
and slowly, more and more
people will not take it anymore.

How can accountability be brushed off?
It is treason. Those responsible should be hanged.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the
people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow
weary of the existing government, they can
excercise their constitutional right of amending it,
or excercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."
- Abraham Lincoln

I think alot of us are weary of this administration and
this congress. Both left and right sides. I think some
of us look at some events and look ahead to
where they are leading us, and its all downhill.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by NegativeBeef


Our government now does have near absolute power. Have you heard of the patriot act yet?


[edit on 25-2-2007 by NegativeBeef]


Well my friend, the patriot is post 9/11 so you cant really use that as evidence of anything.

Also, I think they were probably made after the impact because any rational person who felt that inside the building probably did think it was a bomb and called the police thinking a bomb had just gone off. Remember, not everyone in those buildings died immediately after the impact. The tower didnt collapse until a few minutes later.


No, the reports of bombs going off in the building was made well after the initial impacts. So the people couldn't have confused it with the impact itself.

I'm just bringing this up to show that there ARE theories to support the conspiracy. Even though I believe that 9/11 is a hoax, I also believe that there is a slight chance that we are all wrong and that 9/11 was genuine terror attack.


[edit on 25-2-2007 by NegativeBeef]



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by NegativeBeef

Are you trying to tell me that the Nazi's didn't try to coverup their killing of Jews? I suggest you read these 2 articles:
library.thinkquest.org...
www.ushmm.org...

They forced Jews in the concentration camps to send postcards to their families that they were doing well.

[edit on 24-2-2007 by NegativeBeef]


I never said they didn't TRY to cover it up .... the fact is EVERYONE knew what was going on and for the most part didn't care !!



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 07:49 AM
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All the time 911 CT Cult leaders like Alex Jones waffle on I just see the sort of delusional rant that so many leaders have dictated in the past to their gullible masses. The self belief is scary.

If there were just one dominant theory I would give the idea a little bit more time. I have read, heard, watched a lot of the 911 guff in the past and I genuinely cannot see what the Cultists see. All the evidence is subjective at best IMHO.

I think that the 911 CT Cult put too much credit and ability to the people they indicate perpetrated this so called crime. A country that can't even get its armed forces to hit the right side in an armed conflict, would have no chance of pulling it off


But in conclusion I am glad that you 911 CT Cultists have found something to do with your life. I wouldn't want that amount of paranoia and loathing on the streets. Besides at least so far its a peaceful cult, you guys might have joined a more dodgy cult like a contemporary version of the Branch Davidians, instead of being brainwashed by a Cult leader like Alex Jones



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by T Trubballshoota
I think that the 911 CT Cult put too much credit and ability to the people they indicate perpetrated this so called crime. A country that can't even get its armed forces to hit the right side in an armed conflict, would have no chance of pulling it off


But in conclusion I am glad that you 911 CT Cultists have found something to do with your life. I wouldn't want that amount of paranoia and loathing on the streets.


So what your saying is that all the experienced special ops people we have could not have pulled off 911 but a few people with little experience and training could ?

In conclusion i would like to say i can not believe poeple like you can still beleive and be a cult member of the media conspiracy. But i guess you have to believe the government can do nothing bad to feel safe.



[edit on 25-2-2007 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by T Trubballshoota


you 911 CT Cultists


First sign that a person can't debate the facts is calling his opponent in the debate bad names.

Watch for this whenever you see anybody on tv or radio disagree with the "official" version of 9/11. The hosts, like Hannity, O'Reilly, and even local guys here, immediately start calling them "wack jobs", "wingnuts", "conspiracy nuts", etc.

It's part of their playbook -it's much faster and a quick kill to simply attach a label to somebody than to discuss the facts. If they could win on the facts they wouldn't need to attach the derogatory labels.

This is what ignorant bigots do. It's a lot quicker and requires much less mental abilities to call somebody a "jew", "'n-word'", or "faggot" than to actually intelligently discuss the issues, right?

Just like it's easier to call somebody a "CT Cultist" than to try and figure out why the FAA caused military fighters to be scrambled away from TWO hijacked planes heading towards Washington D.C.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by nick7261

First sign that a person can't debate the facts is calling his opponent in the debate bad names.

Watch for this whenever you see anybody on tv or radio disagree with the "official" version of 9/11. The hosts, like Hannity, O'Reilly, and even local guys here, immediately start calling them "wack jobs", "wingnuts", "conspiracy nuts", etc.

It's part of their playbook -it's much faster and a quick kill to simply attach a label to somebody than to discuss the facts. If they could win on the facts they wouldn't need to attach the derogatory labels.

This is what ignorant bigots do. It's a lot quicker and requires much less mental abilities to call somebody a "jew", "'n-word'", or "faggot" than to actually intelligently discuss the issues, right?

Just like it's easier to call somebody a "CT Cultist" than to try and figure out why the FAA caused military fighters to be scrambled away from TWO hijacked planes heading towards Washington D.C.


So true, i have yet to see any real evidence or reports from the people who believe the official story.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by NegativeBeef
For those who don't believe the slightest chance that 9/11 was an inside job, I would like to know what is your reason for thinking this? I'm not talking about people who just doubt it, I'm talking about people who won't even consider the remote possiblility. Is it because you think that our government is somehow so benevolent as to be incapable of such acts?


Because the scenario is absurd.

It requires all the military services and leaders (including Colin Powell) AND the police force of NYC AND the firefighters of NYC to be in on some sort of grand plot where they agree that they're going to kill their own teammates and destroy equipment and property... and kill people they knew (casually or well) for some sort of "government plan" that ... did what, exactly?

It requires the collusion of two presidents (or more) from different parties plus Congresspersons (including some newly elected ones) and so forth.

It requires the Army's division of long range planning to agree to have a strike on their own offices, destroying many years of work (that's what was in that area. I know one of the generals who had an office in the area.) It requires *thousands* of people to keep silent about it for years before, to destroy all documents, and to politely go along with it afterward.

On the other side, we have "a conspiracy by the leader of an international organization; a leader who's struck American targets before and who targeted this buiding before." Someone with wealth and power, who attacked before and after this event.

Nor does the "proof" have any support as other real conspiracies did. For example, compare this to things like Mai-Lai (Vietnam) or other similar incidents. Guilt-ridden people involved in the scenario come forward and their accounts are later supported by many other people involved with the events.

I also find the audio material unconvincing and the bold statments that people know how a building should fall. If these folks were physicists (like Richard Feynman, who showed how the O-rings caused the Challenger disaster) or structural engineers, I'd believe their evidence (and like with Feynman, others would come forward with the data to support his statements.)

So... no mob of experts leap up to say this is so, no hordes of guilt-ridden and angry involved people show up to bring down the ones guilty.

Osama did it. Pretending that he didn't is a dangerous strategy (and I wondered if it was some sort of conspiracy) that focuses attention inward and not out where the REAL threat is.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 10:50 AM
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Byrd makes some very good points, but I'd like to point out that there is a book written by proffesors of Engineering, Physics, Theology and so on that support theorist arguments. I've already posted the name of the book in a previous post, but here it is again: 9/11 and the American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out.

Those people sure convinced me.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 01:31 PM
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Wow, alot of you lack imagination.
I think some of you are dealing with extremes.
9-11 is shades of gray.


With the compartmentalized nature of the gov't,
people are kept in the dark, so I don't think it
took thousands of people.

Its SOP to threaten someone's life to stay hush-hush.
Let's see, death if you talk... or stay alive and don't say anything!
I think there's a few lists of suspicious deaths regarding 9-11
on this forum somewhere..

And when the media portrays anything contradicting the official
story, its presented as bogus material.
No wonder no one comes forward for fear of being ridiculed.
No wonder no one knows these highly debatable events cause
most people get their "information" from a talking propaganda box.

ARE YOU BLIND!?
We created this perceived threat!

Mid-1980's: The ISI starts a special cell of agents who use profits from heroin production for covert actions "at the insistence of the CIA." "This cell promotes the cultivation of opium and the extraction of heroin..."

AND THEY'RE STILL DOING THIS TODAY!

CIA - ISI - al Qaeda - Taliban

Who gave Osama that wealth and power??
Who wanted pipelines running through Afghanistan?
Who are the greedy ones that conquer other countries?

THE REAL THREAT ARE THE PEOPLE RUNNING THIS GOV'T!
Can't you see where they have been leading us?
The real threat IS inwards.

We're falling apart from the inside,
and you refuse to see it.

I think its a "dangerous strategy" to blatently ignore
extrememly suspicious events that surround 9-11.
Its a "dangerous strategy" to rely on the gov't, the ones
who are to blame, for information on who THEY think did it.

STAND UP FOR TRUTH
why settle on that bogus story they gave us?
STAND UP FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS
alot of us need answers, and retribution.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd
It requires all the military services and leaders (including Colin Powell) AND the police force of NYC AND the firefighters of NYC to be in on some sort of grand plot where they agree that they're going to kill their own teammates and destroy equipment and property... and kill people they knew (casually or well) for some sort of "government plan" that ... did what, exactly?



Wow, does it really require all of that? Even Colin Powell. Huh. Getting specific, aren't we?


Can you prove this, or are you talking out of your ass?

I would assume you're talking out of your ass, considering you would have to know EVERYTHING about the divisions inside and outside of our government to be able to KNOW who would have HAD to have been involved.

[edit on 25-2-2007 by bsbray11]



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 02:18 PM
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Bsbray.... whats with you lately? Calling a MOD an A** can get you warned and possibly banned.

You've been quite pissy recently....



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by NegativeBeef


No, the reports of bombs going off in the building was made well after the initial impacts.
[edit on 25-2-2007 by NegativeBeef]


Yeah, well since the building collapsed, one would logically surmise that the structural support of the building was collapsing and probably making an awful noise. Im sure the sound of steel supports and concrete collapsing sounds very similiar to a bomb. There was alot of confusion that day, people were scared. I am sure they thought that there could have been bombs inside the building.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 02:34 PM
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Besides making a good point,
I don't believe BSB was calling byrd an ass.
Rather suggesting she was talking out her ass.
There's a difference.


Im sure the sound of steel supports and concrete collapsing sounds very similiar to a bomb.


I'm glad you are so sure.



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Osama did it.


What's your evidence of this?

Seriously.

The 9/11 Commission didn't even get to talk to the FBI agents who wrote the PENTTBOM report that's pretty much the entire source from the government that bin Laden did it.

Even if we stipulate that the 19 arabs were the hijackers, where's the evidence of their connection to bin Laden? Can you cite one piece of evidence that connects any of the 19 to bin Laden that wasn't provided to you by the government?



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
it would be nearly impossible for a government to do this. It would mean that the US government has near absolute power and I just dont believe that.

It really wouldn't require that. If a group of arabs working in afghanistan can do it, I'd at least hope that a group of our own officials would be competent enough to carry it off.

I mean, whats to stop them from simply getting volunteers to take on the suicide missions, and then carry out the attacks, knowing that there'd really be no way to defend from hijacked airliners like that?


I mean, forget all that 'remote controlled planes, global hawk missiles, 2-d holographic projection' bs, if a dozen arabs could hijack and crash planes, why not fanatically 'patriotic' people in our own government, looking for something to rally the country?



posted on Feb, 25 2007 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by aecreate
I don't believe BSB was calling byrd an ass.
Rather suggesting she was talking out her ass.


Yeah, as opposed to talking out of her mouth, from which more logical statements should come. More of a compliment than any insult, because I don't think she would ever mean to say something so illogical.

Think about it. Without knowing every group in and out of the government, and all of their interactions in and out of the government, you CAN NOT KNOW who would have HAD to have been involved.

Byrd cannot be expected to know the above, yet she says Colin Powell, for example, would have had to have been in on it. Really, that is talking out of your ass. There is no good reason at all to think Colin Powell had anything to do with this, and if there was, it would be practically impossible to prove. Thus Byrd is making statements that she cannot back up with reason.

[edit on 25-2-2007 by bsbray11]



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