U.S. court upholds same-sex teaching to children

Originally posted by xmotex

When you can show me that kids in school are being told "don't be a Christian" or the like maybe I'll believe you. Until then, perhaps you should consider that there's a huge difference between "persecution" and "not being allowed to force your views on everyone else anymore".

They are basically told not to be a Christian not in so many words. They are punished if they are caught praying even if the teacher thinks it is a silent prayer. They are punished if they even say the name of Jesus. They have their Bible confescianted if they brought them to read siently during study hall. They are not allowed to wear anything that relates to their religion.

Above all, they are not allowed to present their point of view in a class discussion. They are then downgraded, perscuted with words, and ridiculed. The teacher dismisses it as not valid, and returns the discussion in the direction they deem fit. If the child trys to make a point again, they are sent to the principles office or get detention for basically showing lack of respect to athority.

Originally posted by Griff
Or when kids in school (or adults) start getting beat up for being christian, I'll listen to your whoes. Or get fired, or can't marry the person they love (even though murders and rapists etc. can), or can't serve in the military (even though ex-convicts can). Poor little christians, they have to endure so much.

Like xmotex said, the only "intolerance" to christianity is that people are sick of being indoctrinated by them. Get "christian bashed" on Christmas eve sometime and let me know how you feel about intolerance.

[edit on 3/7/2007 by Griff]

Too bad you didn't live in the time right after Jesus when Christians were burned at the stake or thrown to the lions just because they were Christians. I'm sure you would love to see that type of persecution to come back towards us, but in a different form today. Maybe instead of Jews in the death camps, Christians in a death camp. Love that wouldn't ya.

Originally posted by Odium

Can you please give me an example of how this will do children harm?

The problem is that this really isn't a physical warfare, but a spiritual warfare. It will do harm spiritually and to the soul. Then again all of this would be above your head anyhow.

Mystery_Lady, if you have an issue with public schools "corrupting spirits" then pull your kids and send them to a catholic school. Leave the public schools for the public.

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Originally posted by Odium

Can you please give me an example of how this will do children harm?

The problem is that this really isn't a physical warfare, but a spiritual warfare. It will do harm spiritually and to the soul. Then again all of this would be above your head anyhow.

Above my head?

Why exactly would it be above my head? Nice insult. I'll report it later. :-)

By above your head I think she meant you're not Christian, and you're going to hell anyway, so there's no need to reply with a logical answer.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Divorce is considered "adultery," but how many Christians, in a nation where the divorce rate is 51% from all marriages, do you see demonstrating against that? In Christianity, all sin holds equal weight, meaning lying to your children that Santa Clause exists is just as bad as teaching them homosexuality in the Christian faith.

I'm sure many will argue, "Oh but Santa clause was a real person and once existed." Well guess what, homosexuality is real too and it exists just as well.

This school is teaching children that homosexuals do exist, and that's all. They do not teach sodomy, which is what the town of Sodom was punished for.

[edit on 7-3-2007 by DJMessiah]

Un-natural as opposed to natural. My whole point is that homosexuals should be treated no differently than we treat adultry. Homosexuals exist fine, but the problem is that homosexuals want to force us to see it as 100% ok and not a sin. I can't do that.

In the Bible, there is one and only one valid reason to divorce someone. That is if your spouse cheated on you already. You are right about the other statements the Bible does make on divorce. I have neither been divorced or can stop others from divorcing.

Neither am I a homosexual nor can stop any from the practice of it. I also realize that it is a sin, and will teach it as a sin. I will not teach to hate, but to act the same way towards someone else who has sinned. Besides it is wrong to hate them, since we are all sinners anyhow.

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Originally posted by Odium

Can you please give me an example of how this will do children harm?

The problem is that this really isn't a physical warfare, but a spiritual warfare. It will do harm spiritually and to the soul. Then again all of this would be above your head anyhow.

Above my head?

Why exactly would it be above my head? Nice insult. I'll report it later. :-)

Meaning you wouldn't understand when I talk about spiritual warfare. You don't believe in the Bible anyhow, so you wouldn't believe anything I say about spiritual warfare or who it is fought with. It is not fought on Earth, but in the spirit. That a spiritual battle is more fercioius than any earthly battle. The spiritual affects the earthly battles in when and how they are fought.

Do me a favor Mystery_Lady and point out every instance in which homosexuality is pointed out as a sin in the bible.

I want you to show me because I'm no longer just going to take your word for it. Can you do that? Do you have enough knowledge of the bible to prove this is a spiritual matter and not just your individual bigotry?

This is open to anyone using religion as a crutch for their own hatred.

If you start a new thread on this topic I would point it out. It dont belong here. On this thread. However, its not about hatard or bigotry. I do not hate anyone period.

[edit on 7-3-2007 by Shar]

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Meaning you wouldn't understand when I talk about spiritual warfare. You don't believe in the Bible anyhow, so you wouldn't believe anything I say about spiritual warfare or who it is fought with.

I don't believe in it?

Really?

Since when?

How do you know if I do or do not believe in it?

Please, show me evidence homosexuality and children finding out about it will do them harm. If your Bible is so true, if this spiritual battle so important you can easily show harm happening right now.

So see no evil, hear no evil, even if the evil clubs you around the head with a 2000 year old book, is that the rule of christianity then?

If you find something like homosexuality so evil and depraved(which I personaly don't btw), wouldn't it do good that your children know everything about it so they know how to stay away from this great evil?

Or would you rather have them be oblivious to it and get caught up in this great evil at a later time because you were so backward as to keep them ingorant of even the existance of this great evil.

This is what I hate the most about organised religion and its blind followers, they use logic that can be defeated by the overwhelming intellect of an eggplant.

Originally posted by thematrix
This is what I hate the most about organised religion and its blind followers, they use logic that can be defeated by the overwhelming intellect of an eggplant.

And arguing with them does just about as much god as arguing with an eggplant.

I keep forgetting that they lost this one. Oh joy

Griff
Wow, algebra 2 in 10th grade. I'm impressed. BTW, in 10th grade a student should be at trig level. Do you know enough about trig and calculus to ready him for college? I doubt it.

First off, the average kid will not be in Algebra 2 in 10th grade. The most advanced kids would be in Trig, but that is your top 10% or greater. Not that its any of your business, but since you think you know everything, I'll explain. My son would be in trig as well, but we moved and when he transferred public schools, the advanced math class was not available. He is, however, doubling up on math next year and taking Trig simultaneously with precalc. By his senior year he will be taking calculus, the highest level you can reach in high school math.

Secondly, I have been through calculus three in college, so I believe I'm qualified to teach him trig and high school calc. I’ve also had several years of Latin and Spanish. However, the home school curriculum are set up in a way that you don’t necessarily have to be an expert in a subject to assist your children with their subjects. Also, there are online and telephone support as well as local support groups of other home school families. Each has their own background and you can usually find someone who would know enough about a subject to help them or to help you help them. Lastly, you could always hire a tutor. So far, it's just been us. They have not thrown anything at my wife and I that we couldn't handle on our own. By the way, I have an engineering degree with a minor in history and a lot of computer programming back ground. Not to mention, my wifes background is accounting. I think that makes us qualified enough to teach them through high school.

Griff
Christians are the most hateful people I've ever met.

Also, I believe you were hateful way before I was and you have completely left the subject at hand (not surprising). I really am not trying to be hateful, I just have a different point of view that you. I don't doubt that you have feelings for your partner, but they are your choice, no one has put a gun to your head to force you to partner with another male. The problem is that there is a natural order to everything and whether you believe in the bible or not, male and female of every species for a reason. This is to promote procreation and the natural order is for the male to be attracted to the female and the other way around. This is biology 101 man. When you mate same versus opposites, that goes against the natural order. What ever the reason; trendy fad, mad at your parents, too many broken hearts, whatever the reason, its still not right. I personally don't hate you or anyone else and I never said you were bad person. By the way my kids don't even know how to hate. I don't teach hatred and your statements reflect hatred much more than any of mine. I am merely stating my point of view. You are the one referencing violence, hatred and guns.

Griff
I'll be waiting with my pistol.

I am certain my children will not grow up to kill anyone, but after your last few statements, I'm not so sure about you or you're kids. You seem to be the angry hateful one in this conversation.


[edit on 7-3-2007 by lonewolf37]

Vitchilo
Not people beliefs, people who indoctrinate their children’s when they are too young to make a REAL choice for themselves.

It is a parents job to guide their children into healthy decisions when they reach their adult years. We are not animals that just birth and offspring turn it loose in the world to fend for itself. We have souls that need cared for just as much as our bodies do. In fact the soul is more important, because our bodies will eventually pass away from this world, but our souls will continue for eternity. This is the most important level of education we can give our children.

Vitchilo
I agree, school are training camp by the government. I wasn't indoctrinated to think that there's no god, I just don't need a god to live, I don't feel it. And I continue to believe that the Bible is pure fiction. It's a book of legends with a heroe and a god who die for humanity. It's like making a religion out of Star Wars.

Its more like Star Wars had a lot of biblical undertones. If you don't believe in the bible you obviously don't believe in heaven or hell. Maybe you don't even believe you have a soul. I'm not sure what you think happens to you after death, but if this life is the only one you believe in, you must be a very sad person. If you don't believe there’s a hell though, you'd better hope your right. It's way to big of a chance for me and I feel very comfortable that I know what will happen to me after I leave this world.

Vitchilo
Well atheists are for progress of science, Christians are usually not. (stem-cell) And abortions in certains cases (rape, too young) are an abobination to most christians.

That’s probably the most ignorant statement I think I've ever heard. First off you have no basis for your comment. I have an engineering degree and I'm a Christian. There are Christian scientists, engineers, archaeologists, doctors, psychiatrists and any other profession you can think of. Abortion is not a scientific endeavor so that statement does not support you argument. And by the way, I'm not necessarily against stem cell research as long as they aren't killing babies (embryos) to do the research.

Vitchilo
Teaching them that it's NOT a choice and that they are normal person isn't teaching them to become one, you're spinning the truth here.

First off, show me some proof that it is not a choice. There are multiple 'theories' proposed that say homosexuality is a chemical imbalance or an abnormal brain function and probably others. If it were me, I'd rather call it a choice, because these reasons make it sound like something that needs treated. When you say it's not a choice it makes it sound like it's something you don't want to do or be. It sounds like you really don't like who you are and want an excuse to hide behind for the bad choices you've made. I don't think you're a bad person, I just think you're confused. It used to be that you guys called it a 'lifestyle choice'. I'm sticking with that for the moment. With that in mind, I don't see that it is the place of the public school system to instill these choices into the brains of every child in the country. Let them make their choices when they are older. This goes for any type of sex or lifestyle education in schools. If you can't teach religious choices, you shouldn't be able to teach lifestyle choices.

Vitchilo
But we all know that all of you are so brainwashed in your rapture thing and the second coming of Jesus that you don't care about fighting against evil or that you worship Bush, because you say he have been chosen by God.

I didn't quote all of your last section, honestly because it wasn’t worth it. You are railing about crazy stuff and comparing Christianity to fascism. It's very obvious you don't believe in the Bible, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

[edit on 7-3-2007 by lonewolf37]

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Meaning you wouldn't understand when I talk about spiritual warfare. You don't believe in the Bible anyhow, so you wouldn't believe anything I say about spiritual warfare or who it is fought with.

I don't believe in it?

Really?

Since when?

How do you know if I do or do not believe in it?

Please, show me evidence homosexuality and children finding out about it will do them harm. If your Bible is so true, if this spiritual battle so important you can easily show harm happening right now.

The harm is that it can let demons into the mind of the child. It might take days or years depending on how old the child is and how succeptable he is, but the seed is planted. Each year that passes that the demon is left alone to manipulate the thoughts of homosexuality in the mind of the child, the more influence that demon will have on that child. The demon won if it can make that seed in the mind germinate to fruitation by getting the child after he grew up to participate in the sin of homosexuality. From there the demon has a jumping point to influence him to do other types of sin that progress worse and worse if that demon is left left unchecked.

Edited to add: You your self said the Bible has some merit. That means you really don't believe it. You will only pick and choose what you want to hear and want it to say, and then scrap the rest because it makes you feel umcomfortable. Most people who do the pick and choose thing scrap hell, the devil, and demons.

You also said you believe in God. Ok what God do you believe in? If you believed in the God of the Bible, which only has merit to you, then you would have already accepted Jesus. To know and accept Jesus is to know and accept God. To shun Jesus is to shun God.

PS. How is it an isult when you only think the Bible has some merit? Spiritual warfare with Satan and his demons is pretty heavy stuff. Most dismiss that as some sort of weird made up fantasy that has no place in reality. Let alone to think it goes on day to day, and affects you every day. It affects the choices you make, and how you think about things. The demons are winning when people start to think evil is good.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by Mystery_Lady]

Originally posted by lonewolf37
First off, the average kid will not be in Algebra 2 in 10th grade. The most advanced kids would be in Trig, but that is your top 10% or greater. Not that its any of your business, but since you think you know everything, I'll explain. My son would be in trig as well, but we moved and when he transferred public schools, the advanced math class was not available. He is, however, doubling up on math next year and taking Trig simultaneously with precalc. By his senior year he will be taking calculus, the highest level you can reach in high school math.

How can he take trig with pre-calc? Plus, how can he take trig and calc without learning geometry first? Having an engineering degree, you should know this.

Secondly, I have been through calculus three in college, so I believe I'm qualified to teach him trig and high school calc. I’ve also had several years of Latin and Spanish. However, the home school curriculum are set up in a way that you don’t necessarily have to be an expert in a subject to assist your children with their subjects. Also, there are online and telephone support as well as local support groups of other home school families. Each has their own background and you can usually find someone who would know enough about a subject to help them or to help you help them. Lastly, you could always hire a tutor. So far, it's just been us. They have not thrown anything at my wife and I that we couldn't handle on our own. By the way, I have an engineering degree with a minor in history and a lot of computer programming back ground. Not to mention, my wifes background is accounting. I think that makes us qualified enough to teach them through high school.

Thanks for the clarification on this.

Also, I believe you were hateful way before I was and you have completely left the subject at hand (not surprising).

You're right. Because I get so sick and tired of people with their holier than thou attitude.

You are the one referencing violence, hatred and guns.

Only as a defense against an attack. You totaly quoted me out of context.

I am certain my children will not grow up to kill anyone, but after your last few statements, I'm not so sure about you or you're kids. You seem to be the angry hateful one in this conversation.

I'm glad you teach your kids not to hate. But remember that they pick up more on your actions than your words.

And yes, I am angry and hateful. Angry that I have to worry about getting the snot beat out of me (or worse) by people. Hateful because all my life I have had to endure hate from people.

Have you ever been beat up just for being you? I have. It's not fun. Try having someone kick you in the head with steel toed boots and tell me if you don't become hateful towards certain people. I read in the paper every week about gay people getting beat to inches of their lives and sometimes worse. Yes, it gives me a certain perspective of hate. I'm sorry for taking that hate out on you. You seem like a reasonable person.

Mystery_Lady, can you please point to in the Bible where any of that is said? Furthermore can you show us any harm being caused by homosexuality? I do not mean your opinion (because you can not show us demons or the "seed of evil".)

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
The harm is that it can let demons into the mind of the child. It might take days or years depending on how old the child is and how succeptable he is, but the seed is planted. Each year that passes that the demon is left alone to manipulate the thoughts of homosexuality in the mind of the child, the more influence that demon will have on that child. The demon won if it can make that seed in the mind germinate to fruitation by getting the child after he grew up to participate in the sin of homosexuality. From there the demon has a jumping point to influence him to do other types of sin that progress worse and worse if that demon is left left unchecked.

This basic thrust, the preventing knowledge to be known because it is "dangerous", is the biggest problem I have with most religions. If belief in god and a good religious backed raising is done right wouldn't people be able to resist the evils in the world? If being gay is a sin (it is not) wouldn't someone raised in a very religious home realize that and with the power of their beliefs be able to overpower that sin?

This, to me, is akin to certain religious groups coming out against Harry Potter and other harmless such movies/books. I'm sorry if your child can be swayed to evil by one sentence in a story or watching a two hour movie maybe you haven't instilled the strongest values into them. They are going to face many more "evils" and "temptations" in the world than a story or movie.

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady
The harm is that it can let demons into the mind of the child. It might take days or years depending on how old the child is and how succeptable he is, but the seed is planted. Each year that passes that the demon is left alone to manipulate the thoughts of homosexuality in the mind of the child, the more influence that demon will have on that child. The demon won if it can make that seed in the mind germinate to fruitation by getting the child after he grew up to participate in the sin of homosexuality. From there the demon has a jumping point to influence him to do other types of sin that progress worse and worse if that demon is left left unchecked.

Oh my. I suppose foosball is the devil?
Regardless of devils, demons, heavy metal album covers, and all of that good stuff, you just can't base public policy on religion. If we did we'd be no better than the animals that stone people to death because there were rumors of adultary. What if my religion says that homosexuality is next to godliness, should we be teaching that in schools? My girlfriend's a Jew, so does that mean schools in her district should keep kosher and crucify hippies? My homeboy's Hindu, so should cows roam free like the squirrels?
Religion is just dandy and it's a big part of many peoples' lives, but history has proven that the more that religion is recognized by the government, for better or worse, the more people suffer. When government and religion ignore each other, everybody wins. Of course, that's a topic for another thread and it'll never happen anyway because our government is composed of a bunch of vote pandering prostitutes.