Why There Were No Helicopter Rescues At The WTC’s On 9-11, page 19

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reply posted on 30-9-2008 @ 07:04 AM by NuclearPaul

Sorry, don't have time to read all the posts on here, and I'm sure quite a few have said this.

Heat rises. There was a lot of heat. Besides cooking the chopper crew, I imagine the thermal updraft would have made things difficult.

reply posted on 30-9-2008 @ 02:10 PM by jfj123

reply to post by NuclearPaul

Good points !! Also, it is a bit impractical to read through 20 pages so here are a few of my posts condensed.

from the 9/11 commission report

At 9:06, the NYPD Chief of Department instructed that no units were to
land on the roof of either tower. At about 9:30, one of the helicopters present
advised that a rooftop evacuation still would not be possible. One NYPD hel-
icopter pilot believed one portion of the North Tower roof to be free enough
of smoke that a hoist could be lowered in order to rescue people, but there was
no one on the roof. This pilot's helicopter never attempted to hover directly
over the tower. Another helicopter did attempt to do so, and its pilot stated
that the severity of the heat from the jet fuelladen fire in the North Tower
would have made it impossible to hover low enough for a rescue, because the
high temperature would have destabilized the helicopter.
148
At 9:51, an aviation unit warned units of large pieces of debris hanging from
the building. Prior to 9:59, no NYPD helicopter pilot predicted that either
tower would collapse.

Source: 9/11 commission report, Page 304

Could some people have been rescued from the roof of the north tower on September 11? (The south tower held no hope. It was hidden in a 100-foot layer of dense smoke.) No one knows for sure. Fire department officials are certainly right that smoke and flames usually rise, and that people are generally best off going down rather than up. But 700 people were trapped above the 93rd floor, the point of impact where the jet hit the tower. They had no prospect of being rescued by going down.

Veteran helicopter-rescue pilots quoted by the journal say a rescue of a few dozen people would have been difficult but possible. Police helicopters hovered nearby, but were ordered away.

Fire Commissioner Thomas Van Essen called the Wall Street Journal story--and its implication that some people might have been rescued--"hurtful."

New York's refusal to plan for helicopter rescues is not unusual. Among American cities, only Los Angeles--whose fire department owns six helicopters--requires high-rise buildings to build helipads. Conventional wisdom says people are better off heading down and not up.

And conventional wisdom may well be right. But September 11 should be forcing all uniformed services to rethink their procedures. Bureaucratic wrangling is unseemly in terrible times, and both police and fire officials have been careful to refrain from criticizing one another. Yet serious issues of command and authority underlie some of the historic tensions between the two departments. The next mayor is going to have to resolve them.

Source Gotham Gazette

reply posted on 1-10-2008 @ 05:41 AM by Pilgrum

reply to post by jfj123

I believe you got the key info on this in those quotes IE

One NYPD helicopter pilot believed one portion of the North Tower roof to be free enough of smoke that a hoist could be lowered in order to rescue people, but there was no one on the roof.

People could not get to the roof due a common problem in modern multiple occupancy highrises: the emergency exit stairway can be accessed from any floor but a key (or swipe card) is required the enter any floor from the stairwell for security reasons. Once you're in the stairwell, the only door guaranteed (supposedly) to be not locked is the last one at the bottom near street level. Mr Rodriguez made mention of this in his complaints of a history of smokers using the stairwell and jamming their particular firedoor open with a bin or something similar so they could get back into their floor, he was also specific about requiring master keys he possessed to open the doors to any floor for firefighters to check for fires & casualties.

Considering the fact that heat & smoke would be rising up the stairwells, it would not be a very comfortable environment to be attempting to reach the roof needing to somehow break through the top door onto roof level and much worse again if the door was successfully opened (creates a chimney).

reply posted on 2-10-2008 @ 10:33 AM by TeslaandLyne

reply to post by Seymour Butz

That is an unveiled threat mister.
Don't mess with the elite like you?

People are expendable to the elite.

That is a valid reason for building a building without an
escape mechanism by helicopter.
On topic: the reason it was too hot can not be an excuse and
FEMA should be punished for not rescuing people.

ED: People were seen at gaping holes and at windows they jumped
through.. where was the coordination by the fakers in rescue.
TV cameras and stations could have helped.. more than the mayor
in WTC 7.

[edit on 10/2/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

[edit on 10/2/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

reply posted on 2-10-2008 @ 05:42 PM by jfj123

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
reply to post by Seymour Butz

That is an unveiled threat mister.
Don't mess with the elite like you?

People are expendable to the elite.

That is a valid reason for building a building without an
escape mechanism by helicopter.
On topic: the reason it was too hot can not be an excuse and
FEMA should be punished for not rescuing people.

ED: People were seen at gaping holes and at windows they jumped
through.. where was the coordination by the fakers in rescue.
TV cameras and stations could have helped.. more than the mayor
in WTC 7.

[edit on 10/2/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

[edit on 10/2/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

Is there an actual point to your posts?
Can you provide evidence to support anything you are saying in your posts?

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 01:54 PM by Vitruvian

SORRY - DOUBLE POST - This was actually in the wrong thread - it now has its own thread......Thank you

edit on 31-10-2010 by Vitruvian because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 02:18 PM by itallmakesperfectsense

reply to post by Wizard_In_The_Woods

THE DOORS WERE LOCKED BUT IN THE TIME IT TOOK FOR THE TOWERS TO FALL A SWAT TEAM COULD NOT OF BEEN DROPPED BY HELICOPTER BLOW OUT THE DOORS AND SAVE EVEN A FEW PEOPLE ?,I KNOW ITS A BIT HOLLYWOOD BUT THESE PEOPLE WERE THERE FOR SOME TIME AND HAD INFORMED AUTHORITIES THAT THE DOORS WERE LOCKED,THE CHANGE OF SECURITY THAT WEEK SPEAKS VOLUMES,AND FOR THE NO PLANE PEOPLE I THINK YOUVE GOT IT WRONG BUT AS THEY WILL NOT RELEASE THE PENTAGON VIDEO, I CAN UNDERSTAND YOU SCRUTINIZING THE FOOTAGE,I WOULD SAY THAT ALL THE FOOTAGE OF THE PLANES HITTING THE WORLD TRADE CENTRES HAVE BEEN DOCTORED AND FED TO THE MEDIA BY THE GOVERMENT THATS WHY WINGS GO MISSING, I WOULD SAY THAT THESE ARE ACTUAL FOOTAGE OF THE PLANES BUT WITH THINGS RUBBED OUT AND ADDED,THERE IS STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED AND EVEN THE DEBUNKERS KNOW IT....

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 02:22 PM by wcitizen

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
The FEMA birds were called away (the official reason being they were on an exercise). That seems OK when you consider that is why (it is reported) they went there a few days before, but why, if there is a REAL emergency, didn't they scrap the exercise and go do it for real? To flip the coin, surely you don't carry on playing war games whilst you're really being invaded?

Whilst the smoke and reduced visibility could be argued as a technical reason why no attempt was made, it is known that an approach from the north side would have been in the clear, and they could have got in and out quite easily (plenty of video footage to support that theory).

There was no reason to suspect the building would collapse whilst the helicopter landed on it ... was there? (we're not talking about landing on the roof of a house). After all, it would have been a rescue mission, and they are never risk-free.

Their exit paths were purposely cut off. The doors to the roof area were locked and in all likelihood disabled with brass pin lock inserts.

Source?

[edit on 24-2-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Were all the emergency services helicopters out on an exercise that day? Did they leave the whole city without any emergency services helicopters? If so, that's one more thing which beggars belief.

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 02:24 PM by wcitizen

Originally posted by itallmakesperfectsense
reply to post by Wizard_In_The_Woods

THE DOORS WERE LOCKED BUT IN THE TIME IT TOOK FOR THE TOWERS TO FALL A SWAT TEAM COULD NOT OF BEEN DROPPED BY HELICOPTER BLOW OUT THE DOORS AND SAVE EVEN A FEW PEOPLE ?,I KNOW ITS A BIT HOLLYWOOD BUT THESE PEOPLE WERE THERE FOR SOME TIME AND HAD INFORMED AUTHORITIES THAT THE DOORS WERE LOCKED,THE CHANGE OF SECURITY THAT WEEK SPEAKS VOLUMES,AND FOR THE NO PLANE PEOPLE I THINK YOUVE GOT IT WRONG BUT AS THEY WILL NOT RELEASE THE PENTAGON VIDEO, I CAN UNDERSTAND YOU SCRUTINIZING THE FOOTAGE,I WOULD SAY THAT ALL THE FOOTAGE OF THE PLANES HITTING THE WORLD TRADE CENTRES HAVE BEEN DOCTORED AND FED TO THE MEDIA BY THE GOVERMENT THATS WHY WINGS GO MISSING, I WOULD SAY THAT THESE ARE ACTUAL FOOTAGE OF THE PLANES BUT WITH THINGS RUBBED OUT AND ADDED,THERE IS STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED AND EVEN THE DEBUNKERS KNOW IT....

OMG. The doors were locked!! It's horrendous to think that was also done deliberately - there would be no witnesses.

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 02:31 PM by wcitizen

Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by ULTIMA1

From a Washington Post article dated Monday, June 14, 2004; Page A01

This give us an idea of went on behind the scenes.

Working from the basement of the J. Edgar Hoover Building, next to the fumes and clatter of a print shop, a dwindling team of FBI agents and analysts has conducted the largest criminal investigation in U.S. history, a probe that continues to this day. Until now, members of the team have not publicly discussed their work.

For nearly three years, the team has endured the tedium and frustration of chasing thousands of dead-end leads in pursuit of information about the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history. The group has shared the anguish of the families of attack victims, quietly briefing them on their discoveries and returning personal items from the wreckage.

Originally numbering more than 70 people, the team chased more than a quarter-million leads in the months after the attacks, dispatching thousands of FBI agents worldwide. FBI agents have conducted more than 180,000 interviews, and reviewed millions of pages of immigration records, parking receipts, airline manifests, al Qaeda membership rolls, interrogation transcripts and other documents.

PENTTBOM agents still comb through daily military and CIA intelligence reports; work closely with prosecutors in the Zacarias Moussaoui case; and analyze interrogation reports from the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and other U.S. facilities where suspected al Qaeda operatives are being held.

The probe, first headed by then-Deputy Director Thomas J. Pickard, began with one group of investigators for each of the four hijacked planes and one agent for each of the 19 hijackers.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Here is evidence that they continued investigating long after leaving the crime scene. Unless of course you can debunk this????

Mm, what is says is that they were focusing on the alleged terrorists, but clearly not on the evidence from 9/11 -like testing for explosives, and 70 personnel - that's an insultingly small number of personnel.

And of course, it comes from a reliable government propaganda source, which is so not reliable as regards to the truth that it is laughable.

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 02:33 PM by Vitruvian

I want to put my post in a new thread - bu they won't let me - wassup?

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 02:34 PM by ThePeopleParty

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

I never got why USA invaded iraq if they thought bin laden did the towers? Its like the guy next door smashing my window but i go round with my mates and hit the guy next door to him.

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 02:47 PM by Alfie1

Originally posted by ThePeopleParty
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

I never got why USA invaded iraq if they thought bin laden did the towers? Its like the guy next door smashing my window but i go round with my mates and hit the guy next door to him.

Exactly, which is precisely why truther assertions that 9/11 was an inside job to provide a justification for an invasion of Iraq are nonsense.

9/11 implicated OBL and terrorist training camps being given hospitality by the Afghan taliban regime. This was actually a pain in the butt and an unwelcome diversion from the desired regime change for Iraq.

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 03:13 PM by Lisakitty

This is what wikipedia had to say about the FEMA efforts that were made on 911 ...

en.wikipedia.org...

Kind of pathetic if you ask me

reply posted on 31-10-2010 @ 03:28 PM by TeslaandLyne

Let me see what the conspiracy conscious individual might say.
Perhaps what no one ever thought of.
A plan that covered all angles.
No one was to be rescued as FEMA would drive other efforts away.
And why.
The rescued might say there was no plane.
I don't know how that would happen but just saying to cover that
event you don't rescue those closest to the event.
Sounds cruel and only the flip side of actual hijack suicide terror.

An aside to the Titanic if you find that thread.
A plot to take JJ Astor out of the way, can't say for sure.
A apparent delay in the rescue is in that conspiracy.

reply posted on 1-11-2010 @ 04:34 AM by itallmakesperfectsense

reply to post by Wizard_In_The_Woods

WELL SAID THAT CLEARS THAT ONE UP FOR ME, AND FOR THE PREVIOUS POST TO SAY THAT THE WEIGHT OF A CHOPPER COULD OF TOPPLED THE TOWERS IS RIDICULOUS, IT JUST SHOWS THAT HE BELIEVES THE ORIGINAL BS STORY OF WHAT THE CAUSE OF COLLAPSE WAS,

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