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Are the 9-11 I-beams cut in sharp angles?

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posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 10:12 AM
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What I'm getting at is that the beam would have been supported while being cut to not have an acidental fall on someone. So, why cut it at an angle to fall when it is supported not to fall? In that scenario, it would be more wise to cut straight across. Less area to go through and thus less time to cut it. Since they would have craned the cut column away, it does not make sense to cut it at an angle so that it falls. It would be unsafe. And if they did it that way, I'm sure OSHA would like to hear about it.




posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by Griff
What I'm getting at is that the beam would have been supported while being cut to not have an acidental fall on someone.


I would imagine because, even after they took the bracing away, the column would've just stayed put if they hadn't cut it at an angle. Then they would've had to pull it over with a cable, which might've been even more dangerous than cutting it at an angle and letting it drop straight down like a spear.

That's my guess anyway.

[edit on 14-3-2007 by whiterabbit]



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 10:21 AM
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I mentioned a crane. What I would imagine them to do is to have it braced by the crane. That way there is no falling and you don't need to pull it. Just yank it out with the crane and you then have it ready to be "proccessed". There would be no need to have it fall. EVER. That is if my scenario is how they did it. Again, if they fell the column just by cutting it at an angle, then I'm sure OSHA would have a field day with them. You don't just cut a huge box column to fall down nearby. What about the safety of the welder?



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Griff
I mentioned a crane. What I would imagine them to do is to have it braced by the crane. That way there is no falling and you don't need to pull it. Just yank it out with the crane and you then have it ready to be "proccessed". There would be no need to have it fall. EVER. That is if my scenario is how they did it. Again, if they fell the column just by cutting it at an angle, then I'm sure OSHA would have a field day with them. You don't just cut a huge box column to fall down nearby. What about the safety of the welder?


Probably if it's being supported by a crane or something, it's easier to cut it that way and just lower it straight down with the crane. Otherwise, you'd probably have to physically pick it up with the crane and move it off the one below it.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 02:21 PM
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consider the safey of the guy cutting it. even with support thats a lot of weight. if you start to cut it at an angle, even with a crane attatched, you can givt it slack so it starts to lean from the weight above it and the worker can reach inside to make the last cut. that way if the support fails it falls away insead of at a random direction.

its like felling a tree, you clear the area where you want it to go. make a horizontal cut and you are pretty much at its mercy.

it doesnt matter the angle it was cut at anyway. you can SEE the torch marks. thermate/mite WONT leave torch marks.

guys like smack can talk about strawmen all they want, ive never seen a scarecrow with an OA torch in my life. that requires a real human. sorry.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 04:28 PM
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This is what they do in demo's like the ones in Vegas, they put thermite straps around the steel I-Beams in two locations on the beam they want to cut, about six feet apart going at sharp angels going in different directions (The top one is cut from the left sloping downward a and is cut going rightward in a downward slant. Six feet down is the other Thermite strap Starting at the right and moving at a downward slant) they then set a charge in the middle of the selected I-Beam to blow it out once the Thermite cuts through the I-Beam. It's all timed and done electronically from a controll pannel with swiches. There are thousands of different kinds of explosives used to bring buildings down, It is in fact like a art knowing what type and where to place them ect...
The twin towers were brought down by a "Top Controlled Demo ARTIST"
who therefore could it be?


My Guess would be "CONTROLLED DEMOLITION, INC.
They were the ones on the scene and brought in to do the clean up!
Probably a package contract deal you know!
Do you not find this interesting?

[edit on 14-3-2007 by PHARAOH1133]

[edit on 14-3-2007 by PHARAOH1133]



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by PHARAOH1133
This is what they do in demo's like the ones in Vegas, they put thermite straps around the steel I-Beams in two locations on the beam they want to cut, about six feet apart going at sharp angels going in different directions (The top one is cut from the left sloping downward a and is cut going rightward in a downward slant. Six feet down is the other Thermite strap Starting at the right and moving at a downward slant) they then set a charge in the middle of the selected I-Beam to blow it out once the Thermite cuts through the I-Beam. It's all timed and done electronically from a controll pannel with swiches. There are thousands of different kinds of explosives used to bring buildings down, It is in fact like a art knowing what type and where to place them ect...


And knowing what you know about that, do you really think they could've done that in the ground floor of a building that has 100,000 people pass through it every day?

Besides which, if you've seen it, you know as well as I do that it leaves an extremely-obvious cut beam with slag all over the edges. People would've known it was thermite right away.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 04:42 PM
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From watching the 911 Mysteries video I got the impression that small "shape charges" attached to steel beams (there are shots of them in the video) are a standard practice of the demolition industry. My understanding is that these charges are made of or contain thermate.



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 04:44 PM
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Here's a new Video I watched today watch it and tell me what you think.
Note : (It's about 10 mins. long)

Video Link : www.prisonplanet.com...

[edit on 14-3-2007 by PHARAOH1133]



posted on Mar, 14 2007 @ 05:03 PM
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actually, i think what you are seeing when you think you are seeing thermite/ate rods are actually linear shape charges but thats just me.

herse a link to a site i found interesting and amusing all at the same time.

seems dr jones has his detractors even within the 911 movement but if you just read their stuff on thermite, you may find it interesting as well.

janedoe0911.tripod.com...

forget all the other name calling crap and just read their thermite theories.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by whiterabbit
Besides which, if you've seen it, you know as well as I do that it leaves an extremely-obvious cut beam with slag all over the edges. People would've known it was thermite right away.


Can you post some pictures of a column cut with thermite so we can compare? Does anyone have one? I'll look around to see if I can find one.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 09:13 AM
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I found this interesting.

www.centralmass911truth.org...


If you are an experienced torch cutter, light or heavy metal doesn’t matter, the principles are much the same. There are several facts that indicate it was not a torch cut:



No cut from a torch accumulates that much hanging slag. Most slag is blown away; this volume would indicate melting with abundant, directed heat but with little or no air pressure eliminating blow torch possibility.
Slag cools too quickly. To drip that long, with the beam itself vertical, that much slag would separate and fall to the ground, and would never drip that far even with that bad a cut. The suggested explanation of Thermate with no air pressure at a much higher temperature would account for this.
No experienced torch cutter would take a diagonal cut on 4” thick steel tube. And why would even an inexperienced one do so? There would be no possible reason to do it where a horizontal cut is possible, even if above the cut was bent in the direction towards the lower horizontal cut. And the upper horizontal cut can be seen to be cut also on a downward angle thru the steel. No one would angle from horizontal on 4” thick steel and increase the cut to 5 or 6” thick.
No one would cut on an angle thinking that it will cause a standing structure to fall a certain direction, just ask any lumberjack.
Any metal cutter would also question why the rear cut is not a straight line and it dips drastically in one spot, this indicates possibly the remains of a round cut which would allow inserting Thermate charges inside of the tube to conceal them (more on this regarding the second photo).
Someone implied to me that the cutter would have his hand inside the tube cutting the last horizontal leg to explain the slag on the lower horizontal cut. Impossible, that would mean that 3 legs were cut, and then the beam bent so he could reach inside? You would see evidence of the bend if it was bent before final cutting, and you would see evidence of bending at the conclusion of the cut as the weight takes control. Highly unlikely, and there would be few experienced heavy gauge metal cutters who would agree with the torch cut theory.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by Griff

If you are an experienced torch cutter, light or heavy metal doesn’t matter, the principles are much the same. There are several facts that indicate it was not a torch cut:

No cut from a torch accumulates that much hanging slag. Most slag is blown away; this volume would indicate melting with abundant, directed heat but with little or no air pressure eliminating blow torch possibility.
Slag cools too quickly. To drip that long, with the beam itself vertical, that much slag would separate and fall to the ground, and would never drip that far even with that bad a cut. The suggested explanation of Thermate with no air pressure at a much higher temperature would account for this.
No experienced torch cutter would take a diagonal cut on 4” thick steel tube. And why would even an inexperienced one do so? There would be no possible reason to do it where a horizontal cut is possible, even if above the cut was bent in the direction towards the lower horizontal cut. And the upper horizontal cut can be seen to be cut also on a downward angle thru the steel. No one would angle from horizontal on 4” thick steel and increase the cut to 5 or 6” thick.
No one would cut on an angle thinking that it will cause a standing structure to fall a certain direction, just ask any lumberjack.
Any metal cutter would also question why the rear cut is not a straight line and it dips drastically in one spot, this indicates possibly the remains of a round cut which would allow inserting Thermate charges inside of the tube to conceal them (more on this regarding the second photo).
Someone implied to me that the cutter would have his hand inside the tube cutting the last horizontal leg to explain the slag on the lower horizontal cut. Impossible, that would mean that 3 legs were cut, and then the beam bent so he could reach inside? You would see evidence of the bend if it was bent before final cutting, and you would see evidence of bending at the conclusion of the cut as the weight takes control. Highly unlikely, and there would be few experienced heavy gauge metal cutters who would agree with the torch cut theory.


Yeah... Whoever wrote that has never used a cutting torch in their life.

When you cut really thick steel like that with a cutting torch, it does run slag down the edges. Usually when you cut thin steel it just blows the molten steel straight off and onto the ground. But when you're doing thick steel, it's harder to heat it up and cut through it, and some of the slag tends to run down the edges. Most still gets blown out on the ground, but the melted steel around you hole tends to run.

Basically, when you cut thick steel, it's hard for it not to end up looking sloppy like that unless you go REALLY slow and take your time. Since they were just cutting those beams to be hauled off, they had no reason to.

Plus, you can still see the grooves from the metal being blown out, which nothing else would do. And we've already run through why they would cut it at an angle.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 10:13 AM
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The original damage, if caused by the pressure of falling mass and fires, should show extensively twisted, contorted beams. It's not wood, they don't snap like splinters. The reason you use steel instead of iron is because it has tensile strength, not just loading strength.

Try and cleanly snap a dinner fork handle and you'll see what I mean.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 01:32 PM
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Steel does snap under extreme impact loads. But that also happens at lower temperatures. You can't have fire and brittle facture.

As far as the cut column. I'd like to see a picture of a cut column from thermate to compare with before I rule it out.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by Griff
As far as the cut column. I'd like to see a picture of a cut column from thermate to compare with before I rule it out.


I'm not saying it's a bad thing to want evidence on that, but you can see how thermite wouldn't leave those little soda-straw size grooves that the blowing action of a cutting torch does, can't you?



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by whiterabbit
I'm not saying it's a bad thing to want evidence on that, but you can see how thermite wouldn't leave those little soda-straw size grooves that the blowing action of a cutting torch does, can't you?


Yes, I can. I also can not see why it would be cut at an angle. Having it fall like a tree is the most unsafe way to do it. If it was cut so that it could lean, they could have done the same thing with the crane by pulling it. It just doesn't make sense to me why a huge box column would be cut like that.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Griff
As far as the cut column. I'd like to see a picture of a cut column from thermate to compare with before I rule it out.


Same. And in addition I have two other bits of info that relate that I picked up on another forum:


A Ground Zero worker has apparently come forward recently to testify that the cut column in question was there immediately after 9/11 and was not cut by any clean-up team. This was posted on the Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice forum and now I think some guys there are trying to verify that the testimony is legit and that the person did work at Ground Zero, rather than just taking it as an unverified internet post/email/whatever it was.

The second thing is that there is apparently a device that was designed to cut steel with thermite at an angle, that produces results that look like grooves from a torch. I'm waiting for somebody to make one of these things, strap it to a column, and demonstrate it, though. That's what needs to be done.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Griff
I also can not see why it would be cut at an angle.


The most likely explanation for that is that they probably weren't braced at all and they had to make it fall in one particular direction. Yeah, not particularly safe, but if they cut it horizontally, they'd have to tip it over with something--or it could just fall randomly on its own and hurt somebody. I doubt they had time to go around bracing all the columns they had to cut, but I could be wrong.

Even if they were braced, though, it would make sense. They would stay braced, but they would slide straight down off the bottom piece of the column, and then you could remove them at leisure.

I honestly can't see any benefit from cutting them horizontally no matter how they did it.



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by whiterabbit
I honestly can't see any benefit from cutting them horizontally no matter how they did it.


I honestly can't see any benefit from cutting the column before the debris around has been cleared in the first place. What was so important that they had to cut the column? You can see other columns just laying there. Why even cut this column before you have removed that column over there that is already sitting there? Unless they had to cut columns for safety reason, why cut columns at all until the cleanup is well underway?



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