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Are the 9-11 I-beams cut in sharp angles?

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posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Connected




The pictures clearly show the debris, untouched, while they put out the fires in the WTC 7 debris...


Yes, the debris is untouched. The picture shows that.

What it doesn't show is whether the column has already been cut by that point. You CANNOT see the ends of those columns clearly in those pictures.

If you could, I suspect that you would see that they hadn't been cut at that point. They probably weren't cut until a day later or so.




posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by whiterabbit
What it doesn't show is whether the column has already been cut by that point. You CANNOT see the ends of those columns clearly in those pictures.


Yes you can. He only posted the resized pictures, there are full version ones as well.





If the beam was longer, wouldn't it stick up past the top of the hole, and overlap the bricks? It looks to me like it was cut before they put out fires.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by DenyEverything
Yes you can.


No, you can't. You can see the ends of the beams, but you can't see them well enough to tell if they are cut off or if they've simply broken away from where they were connected to the other supports (leaving an intact column).

We've had other pictures posted in this thread of column ends that were disconnected but not cut. At a distance, you can't tell the difference.

Look at this picture:

www.studyof911.com...

Lots of squared off (but NOT cut) columns sticking out of the rubble. That's how they're made. That's how they broke away.

And here also is a picture that Pharao posted which shows a closeup of those beams in the firemen picture and also shows that they weren't cut. (Although, I disagree with his assessment that the one in the blue is cut):

img75.imageshack.us...

It is simply too dark and too far away to tell in the picture if those columns were cut yet.


If the beam was longer, wouldn't it stick up past the top of the hole, and overlap the bricks? It looks to me like it was cut before they put out fires.


Why does everyone think it necessarily should be sticking above the hole? Debris settles. And it's not hard to believe the bricks would crumble until they got to a more structurually sound spot.


Edit to add:

I forgot to add:

The picture of the cutting-torch cut beam that was taken out the hole of the Verizon building, we've also never positively established which hole that was taken out of it. It appears to be the ones near the top. For all we know, though, it could've been taken from one of the lower windows and could be buried in those pictures. For all we know, they removed an entire floor of steel column between the firefighter picture and the picture out the window.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by whiterabbit]



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:30 PM
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Here, I didn't do a very good job of explaining.

Look at this picture of Pharaoh posted again:

img75.imageshack.us...

Look at the column on the far right. It's clearly not cut. It's just broken away from the other columns.

Now look at the one circled in blue.

Despite Pharaoh's opinion, can you HONESTLY tell me from looking at that picture that you can tell a difference? Can you honestly say you can tell it's cut in that grainy, dark area?

I sure as heck can't. It looks like another squared off beam to me. But I'll concede that it's just too dark and far away to tell either way.

And the picture with the firemen is even worse. You can't tell anything in it.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by whiterabbit]



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by whiterabbit

Originally posted by DenyEverything
Yes you can.


No, you can't.




Yes you can.


Originally posted by whiterabbit
And here also is a picture that Pharao posted which shows a closeup of those beams in the firemen picture and also shows that they weren't cut.
img75.imageshack.us...


That wasn't posted by Pharao. That was posted by Connected. Thats proof that you are deliberatly debating this subject only because you are a disinformation specialist, which is why you have been ignoreing Connected.


Originally posted by whiterabbit
(Although, I disagree with his assessment that the one in the blue is cut):


Did you just disagree that the circled in blue beam is not cut? You have been swearing up and down that it was!

Did you forget about this post of yours?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The enitre debate between you and Connected is about that beam circled in blue. You swore up and down that it was cut with a torch, now you are saying you disagree that it is cut??




Originally posted by whiterabbit
I forgot to add:

The picture of the cutting-torch cut beam that was taken out the hole of the Verizon building, we've also never positively established which hole that was taken out of it. It appears to be the ones near the top. For all we know, though, it could've been taken from one of the lower windows and could be buried in those pictures. For all we know, they removed an entire floor of steel column between the firefighter picture and the picture out the window.



Now you are denying, and implying that this following picture is inaccurate?



Keep in mind, there is only one side of the Verizon building that had WTC7 fall on it.


No wonder Connected was getting angry. You are all over the place whiterabbit, you don't make sense, and you always have a lame illogical excuses.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by whiterabbit

Look at this picture of Pharaoh posted again:

img75.imageshack.us...



Once again, Connected posted that. Not Pharaoh.

He also posted this:

www.mediumrecords.com...

But this wasn't created by Connected, it is a widedly known and talked about picture.

I 100% guarantee the beam circled in blue is the beam in the window. I don't understand how you can now deny that it is after you just single sidedly debated with Connected.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by DenyEverything
That wasn't posted by Pharao. That was posted by Connected.


Yup, you're right. I got confused when I was looking for the picture. Connected posted it.


Thats proof that you are deliberatly debating this subject only because you are a disinformation specialist, which is why you have been ignoreing Connected.


Uh, no, that's proof I got mixed up because there were a bunch of posts by Pharaos in the same area.

Gee... You sure sound like Connected. Funny, you registered today, too...


Did you just disagree that the circled in blue beam is not cut? You have been swearing up and down that it was!


No, I didn't.

I said we can't tell from those pictures. And we can't.


The enitre debate between you and Connected is about that beam circled in blue. You swore up and down that it was cut with a torch, now you are saying you disagree that it is cut??


I'm saying in the fireman picture, it's too far away to see if anything was done to the column. And it is.

The up-close column pictures, on the other hand, I have been swearing up and down were cut by a cutting torch. Because on those, you can tell.




Now you are denying, and implying that this following picture is inaccurate?

www.mediumrecords.com...


Yeah, it's inaccurate. You can't tell if the column circled in blue is cut or not yet.


No wonder Connected was getting angry. You are all over the place whiterabbit, you don't make sense, and you always have a lame illogical excuses.


Gee. This guy sounds just like Connected.

This guy is throwing personal insults at the drop of a hat, just like Connected.

And he just registered.

WHAT a coincidence.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by DenyEverything
I 100% guarantee the beam circled in blue is the beam in the window.


How can you tell that? I can't. I can't even tell for sure which hole in the building the picture was shot out of.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by whiterabbit
How can you tell that? I can't. I can't even tell for sure which hole in the building the picture was shot out of.





Admin edit: Removed all the personal insults from this returning banned member, who is also creating multiple accounts to corroborate his own material.


[edit on 21-3-2007 by SimonGray]



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 02:49 PM
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hey great pic connected, errr i mean deny, um i mean under....yeah thats it.

anyway, yes, it shows cables in the window.

what it doesnt show?

ANY evidence WHATSOEVER of a LSC. none zero zip nadda.

next?



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 02:55 PM
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I wondered how he knew about the larger image.
toolbox.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 03:12 PM
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What no picture of the 'BANHAMMER'.......


So disappointed............



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by UnderTheGun


It probably is that window. There. You can sleep easy now and stop making multiple accounts just to keep arguing.

It's still not from explosives and you can tell that by looking. It still looks like it was done by a cutting torch.

And both of those pictures were taken after the Verizon employees started cleaning up.

Actually, though, I did think of one other thing it could be, which would account for it looking like a cutting torch cut AND why it might have been that way since the collapse (even though we don't know that it was).

If that was where the one column was attached and welded to another column and broke loose in the collapse, that would explain why there's a slaggy cut there.

I still think it was a cutting torch, though. Either way, no sign of explosives.

Something tells me this isn't the last of this argument, either.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 05:42 PM
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Contributed to this thread!
I feel there is a lot of compelling information pointing to the fact that yes thremite was used to cut the I-Beams, which is very important to say the least.
Connected and white rabbit, deserve to be congradulated on debating the aspects surrounding this issue.
It is unfortunate however, that during this heated debate, insults and name calling were occuring, leading to Connected getting Banned

This is a very important issue.
It does infact prove in my opinion that this whole 911 thing needs to be investigated more, before we like go into Iran or it begins to mushroom into something even larger and on a bigger scale!
Maybe this would be a good time to just go through the whole thread again from the begining and review everything that has been said.
I believe that everyone here has stated their case and has explained it very well and thoroughly. Now I believe we need to have a jury vote on this thread!
It will be interesting to hear what the verdict is.
So if everyone rests their case, it is now time for it to be judged.
All in favor?

P.S. I want to apologize, to all the Mods, who were forced to reprimand people who got a little out of hand, I will say I'm sorry!

[edit on 21-3-2007 by PHARAOH1133]



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 05:46 PM
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well, personally i have yet to see anyone post a pic of a column or beam that looks to me like it was cut by anything other than a torch. thats just me. ive used an OA torch in the past, ive talked to industrial welders who say it looks exactly like an oa torch cut and ive yet to see any evidence that points to thermite or lsc's.

this is just my opinion and should be taken as such.


Originally posted by PHARAOH1133

P.S. I want to apologize, to all the Mods, who were forced to reprimand people who got a little out of hand, I will say I'm sorry!



edit to add: i dont feel theres a single thing you should apologize for. we are all presumably adults here and as such are responsible for our actions. if anyone wants to behave in a certain fashion then he/she should be ready to deal with the consequenses of said actions and you shouldnt feel the least bit bad about it.

lol besides, whats to debate anymore? didnt you hear that i personally rigged the towers to implode? (sorry i had to, that was just tooooo funny to me)

[edit on 21-3-2007 by Damocles]



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 07:10 PM
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Here on this topic.
So we will just respond to things here I guess.
so everything is on hold for a little while until things are sorted out.
We do not want anyone to go against the rules and we need to stick with the appropriate manner which is acceptable to the staff and the ATS way.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 07:51 PM
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I think things are getting a little confusing on this thread, I thought I seen a post from SimonGrey here but I can not find it now, maybe it was on another thread, anyway, I think everyone needs to slow down for just a second and think about what we are going to post before we post it.
Lets just give it all a break for a little while and just think. Go back through the thread and examine where we went wrong, and things we said that were wrong, or comments we made etc..
There is a lot to review already. So it's like: after we rest for a short while, where do we go from here now?



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 08:34 PM
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To be fair, those beams might have been snapped in the collapse.

However no evidence was given for charges being present that day, let alone for them being used on any of the columns.

I still don't see what the firehose proves, weren't they putting out fires for days after the collapse?



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by PHARAOH1133
Lets just give it all a break for a little while and just think.


Yeah, actually, I'm reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally burned out on the 9/11 stuff right now thanks to this thread.

I just couldn't stand to let this one go because I took so much abuse from that guy and it was obvious he was making that photographer stuff up.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by whiterabbit]



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by whiterabbit

Originally posted by PHARAOH1133
Lets just give it all a break for a little while and just think.


Yeah, actually, I'm reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally burned out on the 9/11 stuff right now thanks to this thread.

I just couldn't stand to let this one go because I took so much abuse from that guy and it was obvious he was making that photographer stuff up.

[edit on 21-3-2007 by whiterabbit]


It seems like I am making too many enemies here on this website, if I knew I was upsetting people so much I wouldn't of done it so much, now I just notice that I am now a foe Of the "Sreen Name : AboveTopSecret.com"
And I didn't add it to my foe list, someone added it to their foe list, I have never seen or come across The screen Name :AboveTopsecret.com.
I think it's from someone in the abovetopsecret, Administration.
Now I know everyone hates me


here's the link if anyone is interested
Link : www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 21-3-2007 by PHARAOH1133]



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