It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Real Talk about White Privilege

page: 21
12
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 01:59 PM
link   
I know what you were talking about.

You lost me because you brought up that ridiculous topic. Nba players are really oppressed.




posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 02:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by shooterbrody
I know what you were talking about.

You lost me because you brought up that ridiculous topic. Nba players are really oppressed.


And I said this WHERE?


I'll tell you like a friend of mine, who is Indian (from India), told me after we talked about the new dress code after class.

He pointed out the Anglo-conformity as it pertains to being "dressed up." He said that whenever he dressed formally, Indian style, white people did not consider him to be dressed formally. He told me that formal Indian attire consists of flowing material, roughly similar to the attire an Arab sheik would wear.

I told him, "yeah, I can imagine. If you get dressed formally, people will assume you're a terrorist, even though you're not Arab (never mind that all Arabs are NOT terrorists in the first place
). He agreed with this assessment.

Interesting how my friend's formal attire is NOT really formal attire, isn't it?



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 02:17 PM
link   
Great points again, Ceci.

Btw, have you seen "True Colors?"



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 02:19 PM
link   
You're very welcome.


And no, I haven't seen "True Colors" yet. I will try to do so.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 02:37 PM
link   


Job restrictions on ethnic hairstyles (dreadlocks, braids, etc.), decreased opportunities for employment for people with non-white ethnic names, the designation of black culture as a "culture of poverty," and the recent NBA dress code imposed by David Stern say otherwise.




And I said this WHERE?





Interesting how my friend's formal attire is NOT really formal attire, isn't it?

Has your friend worn this attire and been told to change?
If and/or when you own a busisness Truth are you going to allow the employees to dictate the dress code; or will you follow osha safety guidelines; or implement your own guidelines as to what constitutes professional.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 02:45 PM
link   
More selective reading.

Those were references to ASSIMILATION! They were NOT references to OPPRESSION.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 02:59 PM
link   
Your going to sell me that you (and your friends) forced assimilation to "angle-conformity" as to your dress is not to be defined as a form of oppression?


More selective reading

Fits with your selective answering.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 03:25 PM
link   
Great points shooter,

By the way have you seen "Carolina Moon"?

It's all about this man that beats women....

You should catch it, it's really well done...

Semper



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 03:32 PM
link   
Truth, would you mind answering this from the previous page?


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What exactly in the NBA Dress Code is keeping the black players from their black culture?



Players are required to wear Business Casual attire whenever they are engaged in team or league business.




posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 03:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by shooterbrody

Your going to sell me that you (and your friends) forced assimilation to "angle-conformity" as to your dress is not to be defined as a form of oppression?


More selective reading

Fits with your selective answering.


No, I didn't say that.

YOU said that I said NBA players are oppressed. That is a LIE; I never said NBA players are oppressed.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 03:38 PM
link   
Wrong topic...sorry.

[edit on 11-3-2007 by jsobecky]



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 03:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Truth, would you mind answering this from the previous page?


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What exactly in the NBA Dress Code is keeping the black players from their black culture?



Players are required to wear Business Casual attire whenever they are engaged in team or league business.



Gee...

I thought the dress code for NBA players was NBA jerseys.
I guess I should expect to see them hooping in sports jackets and slacks next time I watch a game.


I'll post an article about the policy, which states that this is designed to remove elements of the hip hop culture from the NBA. Hip hop culture is a part of black culture for many black people, including some players in the NBA.

Now, will YOU tell me how what a player wears as he walks from the bus to the locker room has anything to do with representing the NBA? How about what players, who are NOT playing in a game, are wearing as they watch the game while they are OFF DUTY? How about how NBA jerseys do NOT represent the league? (
at this last part)



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 04:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by truthseeka
I'll post an article about the policy, which states that this is designed to remove elements of the hip hop culture from the NBA. Hip hop culture is a part of black culture for many black people, including some players in the NBA.


I'm sure some people have the mentality that everyone is trying to take their hip-hop away.
But hey, we ALL have to make sacrifices for our jobs! Why shouldn't they???



Now, will YOU tell me how what a player wears as he walks from the bus to the locker room has anything to do with representing the NBA?


This is not for me to say. But if the players don't like the dress code, they can go somewhere else and make their $8 million a year. I'm sorry. I can't dredge up much sympathy for them having to don their Armanis for a few hours. Poor boys!


And of course you (and others) make this all about race, even though the exact same code is applied to ALL players.

[edit on 11-3-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 04:28 PM
link   


Now, will YOU tell me how what a player wears as he walks from the bus to the locker room has anything to do with representing the NBA? How about what players, who are NOT playing in a game, are wearing as they watch the game while they are OFF DUTY? How about how NBA jerseys do NOT represent the league? ( at this last part)

When the player gets off the plane,bus, or whatever mode of transportation the TEAM provides they(the player) are representing the team and the league. (as the team is part of the league)
The dress code in no way is in effect when the players are"off duty".

Truth do you intend to ignore the questions I asked you when the dialoge began about dress codes.

[edit on 11/3/2007 by shooterbrody]

[edit on 11/3/2007 by shooterbrody]



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 07:35 PM
link   
Shooter,

Are you talking about the "what if it was my business" question?

Sure, businesses have their dress codes. I don't deny that. However, if it were my business, and my employees changed into their uniforms on my premises, I would NOT set what they must wear between their vehicles and the entrance to their changing area.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 07:40 PM
link   
The nba does not do that.
What the players wear to and from the facility is their own choice.
What they wear on charter flights and buses is a different story. The charter flights and buses are provided by the team.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 08:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by shooterbrody
The nba does not do that.
What the players wear to and from the facility is their own choice.


I beg to differ. This says otherwise:


b. Players Leaving the Arena

Players leaving the arena may wear either Business Casual attire or neat warm-up suits issued by their teams.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 09:17 PM
link   
Truth I think that applies to players at an away game. Leaving the arena to board a charter bus taking them to a charter plane. I doubt a player going from his residence or to his residence would be considered "league or team" business.




Players are required to wear Business Casual attire whenever they are engaged in team or league business.

I suppose it would depend on the "official" definition though.



posted on Mar, 11 2007 @ 10:46 PM
link   
You have voted truthseeka for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.



posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 12:01 AM
link   
Grover, I have thought about what you've said.

And, what you've said is pretty much accurate. Class is tied up with race. I agree with that as well. The only thing that I disagree is in questions of race, class is the first thing that is mentioned. In fact, it is used to supercede racial issues.

I'm sorry that my reply is provacative, but these are the reasons why I would much rather focus on race on issues afforded to white privilege.

1)Class is used as a way to hide the issues of race perniciously because it is something that everyone experiences and it is easier to talk about. However, what is being forgotten is that race is something, on its own, that everyone experiences as well. However, race is very hard to discuss due to personalizing it. And when class is mentioned by white people in a discussion about race, it is used as a way to dismiss the experiences of people of color on a daily basis.

It is disturbing for some folk to venture into the territory of race without class being a crutch. It is especially hard not to put one's feelings into race and focus on it objectively. I think that people can discuss class and do that because "color" is not involved. But, if "race" is mentioned, then the issues related to "racial identity" and "color" are brought up into the subject matter. And the aversion to "color" becomes to some people of the dominant culture an aspect of total fear. Some white people are very afraid to deal with race on its own. They will do anything to stop the discussion and try to bury it with other issues. This has happened during the thread. And until some face the music, it won't be the same for any other discussion about race when the dominant culture is involved.

When a person from the dominant culture uses "class", it appears to some that it is a way of saying that historic, societal and systemic racism is prone to be denied. And it plays into denial by throwing in examples of Bill Cosby, Oprah Winfrey and other prominent Blacks who are in the upper echelon of class. Despite their status in society, they still experience racism on a daily basis and it is constantly mentioned in the press. But their experiences of racism are blown off (because they have money).

One has to consider that "their money" will never be the same as the Old Money (Astors, Hiltons, etc.) or even the nouveau riche in society. Their money and status is used by some white folks as a way to write racism off as if it doesn't exist.

And if someone like Oprah discusses her issues of racism, I can bet that there is some person from the dominant culture who will say that she is "whining" and "crying" instead of actually listening and absorbing her experiences as they are because they are too caught up into the "class thing". Beyond the "class thing", Oprah's issues would be dismissed because of the same desire to "sweep race under the rug" and not talk about it. Then, she'd be like any other Black person in America, not to mention just another "person of color".

And when white folk actually pay attention to a person of color who is rich, they exoticize the "personage" and then, if the person of color has to "say something to the rest of the Black community (or any community of color, by extension)", they are used as a way to "prove" that "racism doesn't exist" and that "they have a good message to those other lazy Black folk" (people of color) that they have to listen to in order to "join the American culture" (they subscribed to the Puritan Work Ethic and they "made it" in society, dismissing systemic and individual racism even though it happens, "blaming the poor", etc.).

What is frustrating is that class is used as a way to avoid race all together because there are some White folk that can't fully embrace discussing race. This is not true of all white people; but from the anger, ridicule, and denial that has resulted in discussing race, class enables the avoidance of racial identity and racism in today's society.

It would be much easier to forget race and solely focus on class or embed race into a discussion about class without dealing with race on its own.

2)It is part of that "colorblind" rhetoric that seems to go around. By mentioning class, there seems to be an excuse "not to deal with racism"--especially when it has to do with the experiences and words of people of color. In fact, it gives some from the dominant culture another reason not to admit that "racism exists" and to come to grips with it. Instead of discussing the issues of racism as it is, there is always someone who will do their best to "equate the experience" instead of dealing with it head on.


This is from a speech on the Rev. Dr. MLK holiday about "whiteness" and its construct in American society:


Who Invented White People?

What keeps racism alive in America? I don't pretend to be the one to know the answer to this question. It's a question, however, that every one of us needs to ask. We need to ask it not only of ourselves, looking into our hearts, but to ask it of each other--to ask our friends, our family, our coworkers, and our church members. But in talking about race, what, exactly, should we talk about? I want to propose today that we talk about whiteness. Too often in America, we talk about race as if it were only something that people of color have, or only something we need to talk about when we talk about African Americans or Asian Americans or American Indians or Latino Americans. One thing that has changed radically since the death of Dr. King is that most white people do not want to call themselves white people, or see themselves in racial terms. From the days of the founding fathers until the Civil Rights movement, "white" was a common term in the law as well as society. Federal, state, and local officials regularly passed laws containing the word "white," defining everything from slavery and citizenship to where people could sit on a bus. Today, the movement against racism has had the unexpected effect of letting whiteness off the hook. Over and over we hear people say that "race shouldn't matter," that we should, or even do, have a "color blind society." What has happened, I think, is that we have instead created a blindness to whiteness, or been blinded by whiteness itself. As the title of Cornel West's best selling book insists, Race Matters, and to that I would add that whiteness still matters the most.

[...]

For white people, race functions as a large ensemble of practices and rules that give white people all sorts of small and large advantages in life. Whiteness is the source of many privileges, which is one reason people have trouble giving it up. It is important to stress that to criticize whiteness is not necessarily to engage in a massive orchestration of guilt. Guilt is often a distracting and mistaken emotion, especially when it comes to race. White people are fond of pointing out that as individuals they have never practiced discrimination, or that their ancestors never owned slaves. White people tend to cast the question of race in terms of guilt in part because of the American ideology of individualism, by which I mean our tendency to want to believe that individuals determine their own destinies and responsibilities. In this sense it is un-American to insist that white Americans benefit every day from their whiteness, whether or not they intend to do so. But that is the reality. Guilt, then, has nothing to do with whiteness in this sense of benefitting from structural racism and built-in privileges. I may not intend anything racial when I apply for a loan, or walk into a store, or hail a cab, or ask for a job -- but in every circumstance my whiteness will play a role in the outcome, however "liberal" or "anti-racist" I imagine myself to be. White men have enormous economic advantages because of the disadvantages faced by women and minorities, no matter what any individual white men may intend. If discrimination means that fewer qualified applicants compete with you for the job, you benefit. You do not have to be a racist to benefit from being white. You just have to look the part.




It's not that class is important. It is very much so. But, I think for our nation to start healing, people have to face the issues of race head on with no deflection.

So, I disagree with you mainly about how class is approached in issues of race. But, I still like what you've had to say. It was very eloquent.




[edit on 12-3-2007 by ceci2006]



new topics

top topics



 
12
<< 18  19  20    22  23  24 >>

log in

join