Real Talk about White Privilege

Truthseeka,

If white privilege exists.. why are their millions of whites living below the poverty line? They are obviously not privileged.. care to explain why they are not benefitting from having white skin?

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
That was not my intent, and I am hurt that you think it was.

I'm sorry you're hurt and frustrated. When you said that I don't even know what white privilege is, I explained that I do. I didn't take it personally. I just corrected you. I didn't know you were saying that out of frustration.

More simplification, obfuscation, and false analogies, please BH, I have come to expect more from you.

You know, when you say things like this, I have no clue what you mean. Instead of dealing with and answering what I said, you accuse me of something.

Perhaps you should try asking him what he meant by the term, instead of automatically assuming that it is racist, despite your obvious lack of knowledge concerning the etymology behind the term.

I didn't say it was racist.
I looked it up and read about it before I posted, so I did in fact have knowledge about it.
And I don't need to ask him what he meant by slop-eating swine.

Can't the N-word be used in hatred and in brotherhood? It's the same word.

No, and its use is born of confusion

I've heard it used both ways. But I don't claim to know all about the use of it because I don't use it.

I guess the real difference to you guys, though is the history. Is that right? Not hatred, but history.

No, it is the intent, and the message that is trying to be conveyed through said slur. Like I said, this isn't a simple matter of calling names, there is more at play here.

And here I thought I was finally getting it...

You admit that you were "simply" takling about hatred, then had the audacity to ask me to explain how you were over-simplifying. Am I the only one who finds this funny?

I did admit I was simplifying. And I didn't ask you after that.

I do however have a problem with you comparing me to Ceci, but that is neither here nor there.

It's here. You both have said that I'm "playing dumb" because I don't understand something right away. That's the ONLY comparison I made between you 2.

When I'm trying my very best to understand something and get accused of playing dumb, that's an insult.

Please, how have I dished out abuse to you in these threads?

You have not. I was speaking of my general experiences in these threads. And the reason I haven't responded to all of your comments is that I simply don't know what to say.





[edit on 2-3-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by truthseeka
I only capped on your age when YOU gave the ole "young whippersnapper" rhetoric. Remember? Of course you do.

No, I don't remember. (My memory is failing... ) I'm not saying it didn't happen, understand. Why don't you show me?

HOWEVER, YOU should consider how you've hurt another member here. Unfortunately, it was QUITE deliberate on your part. You know what I'm talking about...:shk:

I am sick of being blamed for Ceci's various bannings. She's a big girl. She did that by her own actions. She is not my victim. She has every power to operate under the T&C of this board. For you (or her) to think that I am somehow responsible for what she brought on herself is the epitome of victim mindset. And I don't want to talk further about her when she can't be here to give her point of view.

But your attempt to shame me here and in U2U falls miserably flat. I am NOT responsible for Ceci.

Mod Edit: Removed offensive material

[edit on 3/2/07 by FredT]

[edit on 3/2/07 by FredT]

Originally posted by truthseeka
You and becky keep focusing on my use of the term. I don't care. If I rescind it, y'all won't talk about white privilege. If I don't, you'll keep bringing up pig. Either way, you won't talk about white privilege, so who cares.

When I have time, I'll REALLY show you some examples of white privilege, I mean, this "theory."

You certainly aren't talking about me avoiding the topic, are you, truthceeca? Because I addressed this earlier on in this thread:

Originally posted by jsobecky
Today's version of white privilege is probably nothing more than "circling the wagons" in response to the advantages being given to non-whites.

I see nothing wrong with white privilege, as long as it doesn't break any laws.

Originally posted by truthceeca
Again, thanks for your honesty.

You DO know that white privilege breaks a NUMBER of laws, not to mention exposes the lie of America as "the country with the most freedom and equality in the world."

At least you will say out loud what others will not. Thanks for that.

Courtesy Is Mandatory

Let's remember the rules we've agreed to honor by posting here and follow them.

If anyone feels their blood pressure rising to dangerous levels, please: take a break and calm down.

Thanks.

Phoenix, I don't want to leave these issues you addressed to me unanswered. So here we go.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Perhaps that goes to the root of the difference between what black, and white people consider funny. Have you ever heard of bagging, or capping? Most black people don't mind being "funny" to your face.

I don't think black people and white people have different senses of humor. Some people think some things are funny, others don't. It doesn't have anything to do with race, IMO.

I didn't think my brother in law was funny. In fact, I was always very uncomfortable with his little "jokes". I said he was trying to be funny, not that I thought he was funny. Just to be clear.

I don't get your comment about bagging and capping. I think capping is shooting someone, I'm not sure, but no black person (or white for that matter) has ever said either to me. And I'm confused as to what that has to do with this discussion.

So, now it turns into the fact that I "obviously" have issue with them, and might "possibly" hate them? How convenient for your argument.

NO! I said IF you used the term fat-ass while talking about fat people, I would *think* (not it's a fact) I would *think* (I emphasized it) you had some issues with fat people. I didn't say "obviously" and I didn't say it was a fact. I said what I would *think*.

You know as well as I do that there is a difference, and that by me calling someone fat, it does not represent an ideology behind my slur.

We weren't talking about you calling someone "fat". We were talking about you calling someone a "fat-ass". There's a difference. There's a difference between calling someone "black" and calling someone a "black bastard".

I do not disagree that the term pig carries with it some heavy connotations, but to equate that to hate is fallacious at best.

And you don't think the term "slop-eating swine" equates to hatred?

truthseeka Do you hate cops? Let me just check and make sure.

Originally posted by truthseeka
No big deal, slavery was, you say? No big deal, even though this is primarily why the South was willing to become another COUNTRY, then. I get it. It was no big deal, gotcha.

The south was only comprised of a handful of states, not a continent. More like a small region of a large country.

Lest you forget, America was stolen from its original inhabitants.

And the same can be said about every piece of land on earth throughout history. So what?

I could care less what "y'all," as you say, expect from me. If you don't want white privilege shoved in your face, don't read this thread, okay? You can go somewhere else with your antics, or you can keep derailing the thread. I don't give a damn what you do; you're not one of my concerns.

So, go ahead. Argue "white privilege". I already told you that I see nothing wrong with it. And any time I get the chance to use it to my advantage, I will. Does that make me a racist? About as much as taking advantage of AA makes you a racist.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Lest you forget, America was stolen from its original inhabitants.

And the same can be said about every piece of land on earth throughout history. So what?

If that is the case, then I am sure you will have no problem providing me with one example of an instance where brown people have ever ruled over whites in their own land (Europe). ( keep it modern now)

I mean, since it has happened on every piece of land on earth of course, you should have no problem providing an example, right?


[edit on 2-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by jsobecky

Lest you forget, America was stolen from its original inhabitants.

And the same can be said about every piece of land on earth throughout history. So what?

If that is the case, then I am sure you will have no problem providing me with one example of an instance where brown people have ever ruled over whites in their own land (Europe). ( keep it modern now)

I mean, since it has happened on every piece of land on earth of course, you should have no problem providing an example, right?

[edit on 2-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Keep it modern? It hasn't happened. Blacks have not ruled over Whites.

Look at history. White Europe vs Black Africa. Europe has progressed; Africa still cooks their food over cow-dung fires. Does that tell you anything?

What do you want from me? Some kind of validation of black history?

Originally posted by jsobecky
Keep it modern? It hasn't happened. Blacks have not ruled over Whites.

I never said blacks, but that is neither here nor there.

Thank you for admitting that your earlier line of reasoning was fallacious.

It hasn't happened on every piece of land on earth because most people have never wanted that desolate wasteland otherwise known as Europe. (By the way, did you know that almost 80% of the flora in Europe is poisonous? Keeping true form with that which the occident truly represents, but I digress)

Look at history. White Europe vs Black Africa. Europe has progressed; Africa still cooks their food over cow-dung fires. Does that tell you anything?

Perhaps you should look at history. Perhaps then you would realize that Europe has only had the advantage for the last 500 years or so.

What do you want from me? Some kind of validation of black history?

How can I expect any kind of validation of history when you obviously have no clue?

Besides, you say black history as if history has a colour, and, as if many of the concepts were false (True some are, Socrates was not, I repeat not black). Sad thing is, it's closer to the truth than you were ever taught.


[edit on 2-3-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Phoenix, I don't want to leave these issues you addressed to me unanswered. So here we go.

Ditto, so if I have missed something then please let me know.

I don't think black people and white people have different senses of humor. Some people think some things are funny, others don't. It doesn't have anything to do with race, IMO.

I am sure you would like to believe that. However, tell me something then, if that is the case then why do most black comics jokes rely on the premise of "white people do this, but black people do it like this?

I didn't think my brother in law was funny. In fact, I was always very uncomfortable with his little "jokes". I said he was trying to be funny, not that I thought he was funny. Just to be clear.

I think that's good. But you need to see what I am trying to get at here.

What you described is not unlike much that I have witnessed as being a half breed. Many white people are very cordial to other races to their faces. But, as soon as they are amongst themselves, the jokes begin, and I have had the unfortunate experience of hearing this first hand because as they later said: "They didn't think I was black".

I don't get your comment about bagging and capping. I think capping is shooting someone, I'm not sure, but no black person (or white for that matter) has ever said either to me. And I'm confused as to what that has to do with this discussion.

You are so cute! Yes capping can be considered as shooting someone, but just like the word pitcher, it has a coupl eof meanings. Capping, or bagging, is where people hurl insults at someone for fun.

It is half based on truth, but is not taken as an insult. It is one thing about black culture that I thought was unique until I lived in England. The English are very much like US blacks in the sense that they will talk "Shizz" to your face, and with no real harm intended.

NO! I said IF you used the term fat-ass while talking about fat people, I would *think* (not it's a fact) I would *think* (I emphasized it) you had some issues with fat people. I didn't say "obviously" and I didn't say it was a fact. I said what I would *think*.

Even if I did have "issues" with fat people, if you were to hear anyone using the term fat ass, I personally think that you would react differently than if you were to hear a racial slur.

We weren't talking about you calling someone "fat". We were talking about you calling someone a "fat-ass".

I am sorry, but I think the two are the same. You mentioned the bastard cooment, however, once again, you are introducing racial elements that are representatve of entire lines of though, which, as I have said, crosees a line.

And you don't think the term "slop-eating swine" equates to hatred?

No, I don't. Like I said, it carries some heavy connotations, but that does not equate to hate.

truthseeka Do you hate cops? Let me just check and make sure.

OMFG! Did you just ask him what he meant by his statement? Even if half-heartedly, I think you just might be on to something.

Originally posted by riley
Truthseeka,

If white privilege exists.. why are their millions of whites living below the poverty line? They are obviously not privileged.. care to explain why they are not benefitting from having white skin?

Don`t bother.....anyone who raises a legit point in this thread that he happens to disagree with, he`ll either conviently ignore or he`ll try to engage in character assassination, as I showed in my earlier post. This is logic he can`t conceivably refute. Therefore, he`ll ignore it.

It`s a damn good point though, and rest assured that you aren`t the only one who sees it.

White priviledge is a LIE.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by jsobecky
Keep it modern? It hasn't happened. Blacks have not ruled over Whites.

I never said blacks, but that is neither here nor there.

The color of the skin makes no difference. The point was that land had been stolen from it's original owners. It doesn't matter whether whites stole from whites, blacks stole from blacks, yellow stole from brown, or whatever. The point still stands.

Thank you for admitting that your earlier line of reasoning was fallacious.

No, it wasn't. Your reasoning was incomplete.

(By the way, did you know that almost 80% of the flora in Europe is poisonous? Keeping true form with that which the occident truly represents, but I digress)

I'm not sure what that proves. If you can't eat the plants, you grow that which is nourishing.

Look at history. White Europe vs Black Africa. Europe has progressed; Africa still cooks their food over cow-dung fires. Does that tell you anything?

Perhaps you should look at history. Perhaps then you would realize that Europe has only had the advantage for the last 500 years or so.

Well you said to keep it modern, didn't you?

Exclusive diffinitive PROOF of white privilege.


thatvideosite.com...

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Even if I did have "issues" with fat people, if you were to hear anyone using the term fat ass, I personally think that you would react differently than if you were to hear a racial slur.

I am glad that you have said this.

Why is it different? Why is racially motivated derogatory terms any less than a term motivated by an individual's weight, height, hair color, etc.? Are they not all prejudices? If I pre-judge you on your skin color, why is it that any worse than if I pre-judge you on your weight? If you are black, you are a fast runner. If you are fat, you are lazy. If you are blonde, you are extremely dumb. I understand these do not come with the same history as some racial slurs, but how much weight should the history really carry?

If I kill you because you are black, or because you are white, or because you are fat, are they not all hate crimes? I committed the crime due to one shear insignificant detail of your being. All of which indicate a hate crime.

Having a problem with a population simply because they are fat, is no better than having a problem with a population because they happen to be black. The act of pre-judging others is wrong, no matter what the detail is.

Now I understand that the term ''n-word'' does carry much more weight than 'fat-ass', but should it? Shouldn't we be trying to shape our society to understand that pre-judgments are wrong no matter what? Or do we want to continue down this path saying that some are ok, while some are not so ok. Don't prejudge me on my color of skin, but my weight and hair color are perfectly acceptable.

I bemoan to think that this is something we will continue to see in the future. Prejudgments are just that, prejudgments. Highly unnecessary and down right immoral. Whether it is race, weight, height, or religion, they are all wrong.


[edit on 3-3-2007 by chissler]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
I am sure you would like to believe that. However, tell me something then, if that is the case then why do most black comics jokes rely on the premise of "white people do this, but black people do it like this?

Because it's funny. And it's not just funny to black people, it's funny to white people, too. That's what I said. Our sense of humor (what we find funny) is not based on our race. Sure there are some jokes that blacks understand more than whites (generally -- and vice-versa) but one of my favorite jokes for a long time was about one particular comparison between whites and blacks. Because it's funny.

Many white people are very cordial to other races to their faces. But, as soon as they are amongst themselves, the jokes begin, and I have had the unfortunate experience of hearing this first hand because as they later said: "They didn't think I was black".

Have you ever experienced this with black people? Are blacks just the same to white people's face as they are among themselves? I know that SOME whites are two-faced and SOME blacks are, too. Because SOME people are two-faced.

Capping, or bagging, is where people hurl insults at someone for fun.
...
It is half based on truth, but is not taken as an insult. It is one thing about black culture that I thought was unique until I lived in England.

Don't rappers also do this as a form of contest?

But, yeah, I get it now. But they wouldn't do a REAL insult, would they? I mean, there's a certain line you don't cross that's kind of understood, right?

...if you were to hear anyone using the term fat ass, I personally think that you would react differently than if you were to hear a racial slur.

Actually, no, I wouldn't. To me (and I know this isn't about me, but I have a valid point of view and I'm involved in this discussion) they're the same. I have said it many times and I'm saying it again. Any kind of 'slur' TO ME is the same as another. They have the same prejudice. And they have the same capacity to hurt another person.

If I heard "Miss Scarlett", "slop eating swine", "The Lyncher", "fat-ass" or "tar baby" hurled with the same venom and intent, they're exactly the same to me. That's where this all started. That's why I called TS on it. Because to me (and many people) it's the same thing.

I understand that to you (and others perhaps) it's a different thing, and you certainly have the right to that opinion, but I think it just gives people some kind of special protection against racial slurs and license to use other slurs. But that's just my opinion.

Question: Tell me phoenix, in your opinion, are all racial slurs the same? Is a white calling a black "tar baby" the same as a black calling a white "Miss Scarlett" if the same intent is in both? (That intent being to hate on and slam someone because of their race.)

Originally posted by truthseeka
Dollmonster...

I don't know what all happened with your son. But, the only thing that makes sense is that you left something out of the story.

Let's face it, felonies are not just handed down for fistfights. IMO, your son used some type of weapon and was the only one to do so, or he is trained in boxing/other martial arts, thus making his use of his hands and/or feet the use of a lethal weapon. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

truthseeker....

My son was a football player and bodybuilder as were his black friends and team mates. Yes it's true, my son did break someones jaw. But that wasn't the only or the worst casuality of that fight. I never said that he didn't deserve to be punished, only that he shouldn't have been the only one who was!

Doll,

1. That urban myth of the use of anyones hands or feet being considered "Lethal Weapons" is pure bunk.... TT is as usual uninformed, that died out in the 60's.

2. Of course any assault and battery can be a felony level. The case you describe would be a felony in any of the 3 states I have worked.

3. You are correct in that he should NEVER have been the only one charged.

Advice.. Go talk to the individual police officer's Captain. Sometimes in large departments they can't pay enough attention to what the officer's are doing and need to be reminded...

Semper

Originally posted by truthseeka
But, the only thing that makes sense is that you left something out of the story.

That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Hey, I recognize that good old "denial card" being played -- If dollmonster is saying that blacks got the advantage because they were black, then she must have left something out (in other words, lied).

:shk:

Oops! Edited to correct quoter... Sorry



[edit on 4-3-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]