Real Talk about White Privilege

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posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 12:03 PM
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I'm sure everyone is faimiliar with this term.

So, what I'm doing here is presenting 3 articles on the subject. I'll also be offering my views on these articles. So...heeeere, we go.

WHITE PRIVILEGE SHAPES THE U.S.

I'm putting this article first because Dr. Jensen is a professor here at UT (Horns, baby
). Though he makes a ton of good points in it, I'll have to narrow down what I discuss here.


Here's what white privilege sounds like:

I am sitting in my University of Texas office, talking to a very bright and very conservative white student about affirmative action in college admissions, which he opposes and I support.

The student says he wants a level playing field with no unearned advantages for anyone. I ask him whether he thinks that in the United States being white has advantages. Have either of us, I ask, ever benefited from being white in a world run mostly by white people? Yes, he concedes, there is something real and tangible we could call white privilege.

So, if we live in a world of white privilege--unearned white privilege--how does that affect your notion of a level playing field? I ask.

He paused for a moment and said, "That really doesn't matter."

That statement, I suggested to him, reveals the ultimate white privilege: the privilege to acknowledge you have unearned privilege but ignore what it means.


This is quite interesting. The student opposes affirmative action, saying that he wants a level playing field for everyone. YET, he acknowledges that the playing field would NOT be equal, even if AA was abolished. Quite the contradiction for someone who wants a level playing field for all.

IMO, what this guy actually wants is an advantage over non-white people. How else can you interpret this, when he opposes AA yet acknowledges white privilege? Thus, this guy does enjoy the ultimate white privilege, as described by Jensen.

While talking AA, Jensen adds this:


[The exchange] drove home to me the importance of confronting the dirty secret that we white people carry around with us everyday: In a world of white privilege, some of what we have is unearned. I think much of both the fear and anger that comes up around discussions of affirmative action has its roots in that secret.


Pretty interesting point here. This makes a lot of sense to me. Jensen then offers a very important aspect of white privilege:


In a white supremacist culture, all white people have privilege, whether or not they are overtly racist themselves.


This is crucial. A number of white people will get mad when confronted with the reality of white privilege because they don't view themselves as racist. Fact of the matter is, they benefit from WP, as do the David Dukes and Trent Lotts.

Dr. Jensen does something I think is quite interesting in the article; he discusses his personal experience with WP.


I have struggled to resist that racist training and the ongoing racism of my culture. I like to think I have changed, even though I routinely trip over the lingering effects of that internalized racism and the institutional racism around me. But no matter how much I "fix" myself, one thing never changes--I walk through the world with white privilege.

What does that mean? Perhaps most importantly, when I seek admission to a university, apply for a job, or hunt for an apartment, I don't look threatening. Almost all of the people evaluating me for those things look like me--they are white. They see in me a reflection of themselves, and in a racist world that is an advantage. I smile. I am white. I am one of them. I am not dangerous. Even when I voice critical opinions, I am cut some slack. After all, I'm white.


Quite a privilege you have there, Dr. Jensen. As a black male, I experience pretty much the polar opposite; I'm a threat, I'm dangerous, I'm not a reflection of the people in charge. Maybe I should coin a term for this: black hinderance or something.


Now, here's a point for those who like to deflect white privilege and call it rich privilege...


There certainly is individual variation in experience. Some white people have had it easier than me, probably because they came from wealthy families that gave them even more privilege. Some white people have had it tougher than me because they came from poorer families. White women face discrimination I will never know. But, in the end, white people all have drawn on white privilege somewhere in their lives.


So, no matter where you're at in American society, we see that being white guarantees you privileges. The degrees of privilege you enjoy may vary, but you will have privilege, nevertheless.

In closing, Dr. Jensen makes these points:


White privilege is not something I get to decide whether or not I want to keep. Every time I walk into a store at the same time as a black man and the security guard follows him and leaves me alone to shop, I am benefiting from white privilege. There is not space here to list all the ways in which white privilege plays out in our daily lives, but it is clear that I will carry this privilege with me until the day white supremacy is erased from this society.

Frankly, I don't think I will live to see that day; I am realistic about the scope of the task. However, I continue to have hope, to believe in the creative power of human beings to engage the world honestly and act morally. A first step for white people, I think, is to not be afraid to admit that we have benefited from white privilege. It doesn't mean we are frauds who have no claim to our success. It means we face a choice about what we do with our success.


Quite insightful. Dr. Jensen notes that there is not something intrinsically wrong with all whites who benefit from WP. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with admitting that one benefits from WP. And, he clearly is right; white privilige will not die until white supremacy dies in this society. Another death I feel should be concurrent with these is affirmative action. Of course, AA will be gone for quite some time before WP and WS are, at the rate the opposition to AA is going...

Wow, I used up a lot of words here. To be continued...

[edit on 23-2-2007 by truthseeka]




posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 12:37 PM
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WHICH 'white privilege' ?

If a 'white' breaks the law, he pays the penalty.

If a 'white' behaves suspiciously within a store, he attracts the attention and scrutiny of security.

Some 'whites' rise to prominence, fame, wealth --- and many do not, despite their efforts.

'Whites' suffer poverty, denial of justice, hardship in the same way as those who regard themselves as non-white.

'Whites' are subjected to competitive. often unfair environments, lifelong.

The only difference between 'whites' and 'non whites' is the fact that 'WHITES' are not provided the opportunity to blame 'non whites' for their predicament ! Unless they're the 'whites' who ARE being and have been butchered by 'non whites' in places such as Africa, perhaps.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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Ok, the biggest argument I have with this "white priviledge" is that it ISNT something tangible, i.e. the government doesnt give me money for it. yes, there are stereotypes such as the guard following a black man and leaves the white man alone. Well, they may have something to do with blacks affinity and fondness for crime.

Here is something I call black priviledge: The ability to be hired for a job wheteher qualified or otherwise. The ability to sue for wrongful termination on the basis of race. The ability to be subsidized by the government for housing, education, and other public services.

Whistes do not receive this. So, I think this is more of a case of hatred and jealousy moreso than about "white priviledge."



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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The deuce! Article 2 coming up...

Race to Our Credit

Wise makes some similar points to Jensen, but he gives more examples of white privilege in his article. He notes an important trend here:


Despite being an obvious institutionalized phenomenon to people of color and even some of us white folks, white privilege is typically denied, and strongly, by most of us.


This could not be closer to the truth. He adds:


Usually, this denial plays out in one of two ways: either we seek to shift the focus of discussion to our status as members of some other group that isn't socially dominant (so, for example, whites who are poor or working class will insist that because of their economic marginalization, they effectively enjoy no racial privilege at all), or we retreat to the tired but popular notion that all have an equal opportunity in this, our colorblind meritocracy.


The latter is so true, I can't even begin to express it. So true, in fact, that I have seen it a number of times on THIS site. More on the "colorblind society" later.

Wise states a reason that this denial occurs.


To admit that one receives such things is to acknowledge that one is implicated in the process by which others are oppressed or discriminated against. It makes fairly moot the oft-heard defense that "I wasn't around back then, and I never owned slaves, or killed any Indians," or whatever.


Again, popping that nail straight on the head. Once again, the bolded statement is one I have seen, in variations, on this site quite often in threads discussing race. It's pretty clever, too; obviously, no one alive today was around back in the day whipping slaves or killing Native Americans (though a white could kill a Native American today, I guess, just in a different context).

Wise then points out the chink in this armor:


If one has reaped the benefits of those past injustices (to say nothing of ongoing discrimination in the present) by being elevated, politically, economically and socially above persons of color, for example--which whites as a group surely have been thanks to enslavement, Indian genocide and Jim Crow--then whether or not one did the deed becomes largely a matter of irrelevance.


Within this defense, Wise points out another aspect of white privilege:


Of course, what is ultimately overlooked is that denial of one's privilege itself manifests a form of privilege: namely, the privilege of being able to deny another person's reality (a reality to which they speak regularly) and suffer no social consequence as a result.


I have something to add, but Wise is on a roll:


Whites pay no price, in other words, for dismissing the claims of racism so regularly launched by persons of color, seeing as how the latter have no power to punish such disbelievers at the polls, or in the office suites, or in the schools in most cases.


This I've seen too much, in all areas of life. If you say covert racism exists, you're paranoid (this was said to me in another thread). If you accuse a white person of following you through a store, you're being paranoid. If you point out racism, you are told to "grow a thick skin." (this is a very popular one) In effect, your reality is denied because it doesn't fit in to the reality of the dominant group; it doesn't fit the "norm," the "accepted view of things." (Ceci has mentioned this in other threads) Basically:


White reality is privileged at every turn, so that if whites say something is a problem, it is, and if whites insist it isn't, then it isn't.


Now here, Wise points out something that has been staring me in the face forever, yet hidden in plain view; white people have a race card, too!!



Those of us who are white remain thought of as sober-minded, and never as given to underestimating the extent of racism, making a molehill out of what is, in fact, often a mountain, or playing our own race card, the denial card, which far and away trumps whatever pallid alternative people of color may occasionally find in their own decks.


EVERYONE hears about the "race card," yet NO ONE hears a THING about the "denial card." It's so powerful, so subtle, that it actually is "played" right after the "race card" is "played." Think about it; if a white person accuses a black person of playing the race card, the complaints of the black person are often seen as bogus. Thus, the denial card has trumped the race card with no one accusing the white person of using their denial card. Pretty slick.

Another thing I hear is that "we are all equal; I mean, look at Oprah." Wise has something for this:


In other words, privilege is not merely about money and wealth...[r]ather it is the daily psychological advantage of knowing that one's perceptions of the world are the ones that stick, that define the norm for everyone else, and that are taken seriously in the mainstream.


Now for some examples...

On the notion that evangelical Christians helped Bush get back in office, Wise notes:


[W]hat this analysis ignored is that it was only some evangelicals who overwhelmingly chose to re-elect the President, while others voted to do exactly the opposite. Indeed, black evangelicals voted eight to one against Bush, meaning that the mainstream talking heads, as usual were privileging the white perspective, and universalizing the particular behavior of white folks, as if it were the standard for everyone.


He continues with the elections, describing a divide within the "red/blue" states:


Fact is, the divide is less one of geography than race: a majority of whites in the blue states (including California and New York) voted for Bush on election day, while the vast majority of blacks and the majority of other persons of color in the red states voted against him.


So, we see that the media treats the white view on things as the one that matters, in these cases.

Now, what Wise says here is TOO important, so important that I want to quote it twice (but I won't
):


Even more important as an example of white privilege--the kind that adheres to all whites, not just the rich--is the ability to avoid being stigmatized by the actions of others who just so happen to fall within the same racial group as you.

While people of color bear the burden of disproving negative stereotypes regularly--when interviewing for a job, taking a standardized test, or merely driving in the "wrong" neighborhood, where they are presumed not to belong--whites rarely if ever have to worry that the actions of others like us, no matter how horrible, will stick to us or force us to prove that we are somehow different.


This is TOO true. This is why people like Barack Obama are praised for being articulate and clean. This is why we had the dreaded New Jersey Turnpike. There are too many examples of this, but Wise does mention more. I'm going to skip down a bit in the article, but I'll return to the flip side of this...


Yet what of the recent murders in Wisconsin by a Hmong immigrant, who killed six white hunters when they confronted him in a private deer stand? Not only did bumper stickers crop up within days reading, "Save a deer, shoot a Hmong," implying that the shooter was somehow representative of a larger group evil, but more to the point, the Hmong and larger Southeast Asian communities in Wisconsin and Minnesota (where the shooter was from) rushed to distance themselves from him.



It's why in the aftermath of 9/11, you could hear one after another white person demanding to know, and being treated as reasonable for asking it, "where are the moderate voices in the Arab Muslim community prepared to condemn terrorism," all because nineteen out of 1.5 billion Muslims on Planet Earth flew planes into buildings. Yet one cannot fathom anyone being taken seriously if they were to ask, "where are the moderate white Christians," in the aftermath of Oklahoma City or any of a number of abortion clinic bombings.


I wish I could put highlights around the bolded part; hell, I wish I could put it in giant billboard-sized font. I have seen this TOO many times in the 9/11 forums. Hell, I've seen this all over the media as well.

Of course:


[W]hites can screw up on the job, run entire corporations into the ground, rip off the Savings and Loans to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, cut corners on occupational safety and health in the workplace, or scam millions from employee pension funds, without the rest of us having to worry that such incompetence or outright dishonesty will result in whites being viewed suspiciously every time we seek to climb to the top of the corporate ladder...

When Martha Stewart conspires to cover up a stock dumping scam, white women across America do not cower in fear that somehow they will be viewed as dishonest and predatory as a result. Nor white men thanks to Ken Lay.

If the President of the United States mispronounces every fifth word out of his mouth, none of us white folks have to worry that someone will ascribe his verbal incompetence to some general white illiteracy.


Strange. People here on this site support the slop eating police harassing me because I'm black, yet don't have to worry about me not trusting my money to white people in a financial institution. White people can assume a Muslim/Arab on their plane may be a terrorist, yet they are not assumed to be members of the oldest terror group in the US, the KKK.

This is getting pretty long...I'll add the other article later. To be continued...




[edit on 23-2-2007 by truthseeka]




[Mod Edit: Formatting - Jak]

[edit on 8/3/07 by JAK]



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Dock6
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WHICH 'white privilege' ?

If a 'white' breaks the law, he pays the penalty.

If a 'white' behaves suspiciously within a store, he attracts the attention and scrutiny of security.

Some 'whites' rise to prominence, fame, wealth --- and many do not, despite their efforts.

'Whites' suffer poverty, denial of justice, hardship in the same way as those who regard themselves as non-white.

'Whites' are subjected to competitive. often unfair environments, lifelong.

The only difference between 'whites' and 'non whites' is the fact that 'WHITES' are not provided the opportunity to blame 'non whites' for their predicament ! Unless they're the 'whites' who ARE being and have been butchered by 'non whites' in places such as Africa, perhaps.




Did you have trouble reading the article? You can check out the 2nd one now.

And, thanks for illustrating a point from the 2nd article. You have just used white privilege by denying it exists. Again, thanks for that display.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Ok, the biggest argument I have with this "white priviledge" is that it ISNT something tangible, i.e. the government doesnt give me money for it. yes, there are stereotypes such as the guard following a black man and leaves the white man alone. Well, they may have something to do with blacks affinity and fondness for crime.

Here is something I call black priviledge: The ability to be hired for a job wheteher qualified or otherwise. The ability to sue for wrongful termination on the basis of race. The ability to be subsidized by the government for housing, education, and other public services.

Whistes do not receive this. So, I think this is more of a case of hatred and jealousy moreso than about "white priviledge."



That's the beauty of white privilege.

It's understood if you are white in America. It doesn't have to be on the books to be real.

And, thanks to you too for using your white privilege; you talk about it with quotations as if it's not real. AND, you accuse non-whites of being jealous of and hating whites. Newsflash: WHITE PEOPLE WROTE THESE ARTICLES.

I guess that makes them self-haters...




posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 01:19 PM
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My daughter was the top student in her high school. She was a national merit scholar. She scored over 1500 on her SATs. Yet she didn't get into Stanford. One of her friends who was 1/2 hispanic with a lower GPA, less impressive SAT scores and far fewer activities got accepted to Stanford.

I guess you have to chalk that up to white privilege.

I was told that my son was "white listed" with regards to scholarships at the University that he attended. Yet he tutored friends of his in the same major who had full ride scholarships because they were underrepresented minorities.

I guess that is also white privilege.

The funny thing is that both of my kids are very successful although they view AA programs as free money for middle class under represented minorities.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 01:24 PM
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In other words, privilege is not merely about money and wealth...[r]ather it is the daily psychological advantage of knowing that one's perceptions of the world are the ones that stick, that define the norm for everyone else, and that are taken seriously in the mainstream.


Well, this was exactly my point on "white priviledge" not being tangible and is in fact a perception. So the good dr. has just contradicted himself. He admits that "white priviledge" is merely a perception, although he says its a white perception which I dont agree with because it is usually minorities who complain about it. If only "white views" are accepted, than why are there any number of media outlets, and even a whole station on TV called black entertainment, dedicated to the black view of life.

So, if "white priviledge" is merely a perception then why are we giving blacks and other minorities tangible priviledges for it? Doesnt it seem rather foolish to give a group of people money for something that only exists in the minds of people?

the truth is, there inst a level playing field because we have raised it for the advantage of minorities. Everywhere you look you can see evidence of this. GQE(Graduation Qualification Exams), workforce, housing, etc.

If anything, the dr. has given a very good case on why affirmative action should NOT exist.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 01:36 PM
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That's the beauty of white privilege.

It's understood if you are white in America. It doesn't have to be on the books to be real.

And, thanks to you too for using your white privilege; you talk about it with quotations as if it's not real. AND, you accuse non-whites of being jealous of and hating whites. Newsflash: WHITE PEOPLE WROTE THESE ARTICLES.

I guess that makes them self-haters...



What is this? The thought police? So let me get this straight. Because there is a perception that whites are priviledged, it somehow entitles minorities to tangible benefits?

Your saying that because Im white and because I believe that it doesnt exist, that is somehow effecting your reality?

I think my reality has been far more effected by your perceptions than mine has yours. Why? because I have to compete in a job market that, in some places, enforces racial quotas for your perception. I do not receive subsidies for my housing because of YOUR perception. In some cases, qualifications based on merit are outweighed by qualifications based on race because of your perceptions.

If anything, it is the minorities who have this priviledge and it is very much tangible for them.

Also, I was aware that this article was written by a white guy. I wasnt slamming it because of who wrote it, I was slamming it because of whats in it. Thats another perception you cant seem to overcome.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 02:14 PM
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WHITE privilege in Australia:

As a white, single parent, I worked full-time to educate my children, in preference to claiming money from the government to which I was entitled. I prefered to earn my own and my children's keep. I paid for every eraser, book, item of school uniform. I paid private school fees. I paid for a tutor. I helped my children every night and weekend with their studies and assignments. All in order they might have a chance to attend tertiary education, again, for which I and they would be required to pay top dollar. In the end, at a quite young age, I suffered a mild stroke caused by excess work and worry, not enough sleep. (I should add I was also paying -- from my own labours -- the mortgage on our home in addition to maintaining it, gardening, etc.)

My next door neighbour was an Aboriginal women. She lived in a house virtually identical to mine. It was paid entirely by the tax-paying public of Australia. When she needed a new bathroom ------- it was paid for by the tax-payer. In addition, every cent in her purse was provided by the tax-payer, courtesy of the generous-with-other-people's-money-government. She took trips overseas -- funded by the tax-payer. She attended numerous 'Aboriginal seminars' --- courtesy of the tax-payer.

My Aboriginal neighbour often had her grandchildren to stay. They were much darker in complexion than she was. She told me their fathers were unknown although she knew for a fact that a couple of her grandchildren had been fathered by Lebanese men and other of her grandchildren had Maori and Cook Island fathers.

My Aboriginal neighbour complained about her children. And this is why: she told me her son (whose father in fact was a Solomon Islander) had been 'given' a motel in Coff's Harbour to run. 'Given' it by the Aussie government, courtesy of the overtaxed Aussie public.

My Aboriginal neighbour laughingly told me that her son in fact --- did NOTHING. She said the motel was actually managed and operated by a WHITE accountant and WHITE staff. " So what does your son do?" I asked. She replied: " He does bugger all, him. He goes drinkin and fishin and actin like a big-shot." She told me frankly that her son was " A useless bludger", who was living the good life (courtesy of the tax payer) as part of an initiative by the Aussie government to ' Give Abos confidence and make it look like they're useful '.

Her daughters, she said, were also " Useless, lazy buggers." One of these had been 'given' a 'tourist shop' at a very upmarket marina. Again, my neighbour's daughter (according to her mother) did not ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING, other than be described as 'manager' of this operation, which was in actuality operated and managed by WHITE people (the same WHITE people whose taxes were paying for this 'government initiative in making Aboriginals appear useful' to begin with).

My Aboriginal neighbour told me she was 'sick' of having to go to her daughters' (plural) apartments each week to clean them. These were luxury apartments on the waterfrong. ORDINARY WHITE people had to work and save all their lives to afford one -- if they were amongst the lucky. But those with DARK skin can get them for free --- courtesy of the overtaxed Aussie public.

My neighbour's daughters ALSO took several FREE overseas trips each years to consult with the other POOR, DARK SKINNED people of the world, such as the American Indians. Ironic, that people claiming to be 'Aboriginal' (who in fact were simply dark skinned individuals with unknown parentage) should be PAID to take luxury trips to the US to swap 'misery' stories with the American Indian owners of casinos. While all the WHITE people WORK to PAY for these little get-togethers.

My Aboriginal neighbour knew I was driving myself hard in the hope of providing my children a decent education. " Shame you're not an Abo" she said, " because if you were, your kids would get it all for free."

She then went on to tell me that HER children and grandchildren were PAID by the government to go to school. Everyone get that? WHITE parents PAY for their children's education, whilst DARK people are PAID to avail themselves of FREE education.

My Aboriginal neighbour told me that if HER (dark complexioned, unknown fathers) grandchildren persisted as FAR as GRADE TEN (lower high school level) THEN they were GUARANTEED a FREE PLACE at university. Furthermore, they would NOT be required to sit an entrance exam. AND they would be provided PAYMENT all the way through. AND they would be provided tutors etc. AND the exams they WOULD be required to eventually sit would be 'scaled' to their ability. In fact, she said, her son's tutor (paid by the taxpayer) had actually SAT ALL HIS EXAMS FOR HIM.

Futher again, her son had been slid into the police force despite NOT being able to actually qualify (as part of ANOTHER government initiative) BUT was kept WELL AWAY from anything even potentially 'dangerous' --- because (in my neighbour's own words) " The government is scared for anything to happen to him in case it looks bad." Looks bad against the WHITE people, that is.

My neighbour observed my efforts on behalf of my children for well over five years and her conscience was pricked by what she saw. She knew that my children, despite their good grades, would have to run the gauntlet of ridiculous 'screening' procedures before they could gain a university place and those screening procedures DENY WHITE children a place, because the government is SO BUSY creating un-earned places for anyone who just happens to have A BIT MORE PIGMENT IN THEIR SKIN and in order to make room for PAYING overseas students.

So WHO is discriminated against for NOT having enough melanin in their skin ? Poor Whitey.

If I'd had the sense to get pregnant to ANY man with dark complexion, be he arab or Indian or Islander, I could claim the BLACK RANSOM for my children by claiming they were 'discriminated' against because they have darker skin.

Finally, my part-Aboriginal neighbour, disgusted by her dark skinned children's greed, laziness and uselessness, said to me: " I told my kids they SHOULD BE GIVING SOMETHING BACK. "

She told me that her dark skinned children, used to creaming it off the WHITE people, had told her to " Get stuffed ".

Oh, yeah, it's so tough being dark. We Whitey's don't know how lucky we are --- getting to PAY for everything, and PAY and PAY and PAY



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
Newsflash: WHITE PEOPLE WROTE THESE ARTICLES.

I guess that makes them self-haters...


Yeah- thats funny. You do realise that we aren't all alike don't ya?
That would be like posting something from an indian and saying you must hate yourself if you don't agree with it.


We aren't all the same race. ..we don't all think the same and only a fool would assume that skin colour determines what our personal politics are. As for white privilege.. when the millions of whites living under the poverty line suddenly dissapear you might have a point.

Black isn't a disabilty and it's very possible that some people are ademently pointing the finger at the 'racist whites' because the perks the system offers are under threat. These perks only exist so long as lots of evil racist whites do.. and judging by some of the threads here it seems people are desperate to see them.. perhaps for that very reason.

So much for the civil rights movement.

[edit on 23-2-2007 by riley]



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 02:35 PM
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You have voted Dock6 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 02:50 PM
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Should add ------ because this is funny ------ that my 'Aboriginal' neighbour was 3/4 WHITE !

All her 'black perks' were gained because one of her grandfathers was from the Trobriand Islands (which is not even IN Australia).

Nevertheless, she claimed full BLACK privileges as did her numerous children, who had a variety of 'dark' fathers.

Her numerous daughters chose to mate with dark skinned males --- which is a REALLY SMART THING to DO, financially, because that dark skin is like owning the Mint.

It's the dark skin that gives people the FREE ride, lifelong.

It's the dark skin that allows them to PLAY the UNDERDOG.

It's the dark skin that frees them from RESPONSIBILITY for themselves AND for their families.

That dark skin is a passport to EASY STREET.

It's reached the ludicrous situation in Australia where ' You are Aboriginal if you FEEL Aboriginal'. And yes ----- I FEEL Aboriginal --- I TOO want to jump on that gravy train ! Why not?

There are hundreds, thousands most likely, so-called 'Aboriginals' in Australia, who are ACTUALLY at least half Lebanese.

But who CARES ? It's the DARK SKIN that counts, money and privilege wise. And some Lebanese fathers have produced offspring who've been creaming off WHITE society all their lives, courtesy of that Middle Eastern DARK skin.

There are blue-eyed, white skinned, red-haired individuals in Australia who claim 'Aboriginality' and OF COURSE claim all those BENEFITS that come with dark complexion ( even if they don't possess dark complexion).

My daughter is STILL paying her way through university AND working full time. And she is stopped in the city of Sydney by people as white skinned as she is, who claim to be 'Aboriginal'. They say: ' Hey, sista -- will ya gimme $20? I'm part of an Aboriginal dance troupe and we need money to go to the US to dance.'

Riiiiiiight. My WHITEY daughter works herself to the bone to get ahead in life while people with DARKER COMPLEXION gain generous grants from the oh-so-generous-with-taxpayers'-money-government to 'go dancing' in the US. They are PAID by white people to get up in the morning. Their alcohol and drugs and housing and food and travel and clothing and entertainment and dance-BS is PAID for by white people. And they STILL beg white people for MORE money !

And why? All because they are a bit more tan than the trapped-indoors all day, work-all-night white people.

Now THIS is the mystery: WHY doesn't my 3/4 WHITE neighbour honour her WHITE ancestry? WHY instead, does she CLING to the financially-advantagous 1/4 Trobriand Islander legacy of dark skin? No points for working it out.

WHY do so many predominanty WHITE individuals in the US and elsewhere CHOOSE to IDENTIFY as 'black' when they are in fact only 1/4 or 1/8 'black' (regardless of the derivation of that 'black' component) ?

Again -------- it's for gain. It's for profit. It provides an EXCUSE in life and a means of DENYING personal responsiblity. It provides a chance to BLAME 'someone else' for every damn thing.

So let's ALL go down the beach. Let's ALL get ourselves a nice tan.

Let's ALL throw our hands in the air and decide SOMEONE ELSE should pay to keep us alive and should work their backsides off to make us happy !

Let's down tools. Let's stop work. Let the country grind to a halt.

Let's just go to the beach and blame WHITEY.

WHO wants to be 'whitey' ?

Maybe Norway will take responsibility for ALL of us tanned folk, huh?

Someone send Norway an email to see if they want to play. If not, we could try Scotland (although seeing they just dumped 25,000 'black' Africans over there, maybe they won't be so keen any more. Ok. Let's try Monaco. Monaco's rich. Maybe Monaco will want to support and play whipping boy to all us tanned folk. If not, we could try Luxemburg. Or Sweden.

Gee, it's going to be rotten when muticulturalism has killed all the suckers -- oooops, I mean WHITE people.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 02:51 PM
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You have voted Dock6 for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Truthseeka those posts don't sound like you. The style is very different.
Anything up with that?



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 03:16 PM
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Truthseeka, I love this thread. I'm cracking up reading it. I can't believe how many posters are in denial of reality.



Of course, what is ultimately overlooked is that denial of one's privilege itself manifests a form of privilege: namely, the privilege of being able to deny another person's reality (a reality to which they speak regularly) and suffer no social consequence as a result.

Whites pay no price, in other words, for dismissing the claims of racism so regularly launched by persons of color, seeing as how the latter have no power to punish such disbelievers at the polls, or in the office suites, or in the schools in most cases.

On the other hand, people of color who refuse to buy into white reality--the "reality" of the U.S. as a "shining city on a hill," or the "reality" of never-ending progress, or the "reality" of advancement by merit--often pay a heavy toll: they are marginalized, called "professional victims," or accused of playing the race card.

Consider the common charge of conspiratorial paranoia hurled at any person of color, for example, who dared to point out the racially-disparate voter purging that took place in Florida in 2000, or in various places in 2004. White reality is privileged at every turn, so that if whites say something is a problem, it is, and if whites insist it isn't, then it isn't.


This is America's problem with all people of color. This is the problem here, with domestic race issues; it's the root of the current problem in Iraq (Iraqis want us gone, but we refuse to listen). [It's also a problem on ATS, but that's a different thread.]

To sit on a lofty perch and tell people of color that every single racial experience they've ever had in their lives was unique to them is just what the writer said you would do: deny our reality. To counter a systemic 400 year pattern of rape and murder and just general malfaisance with an example about your kids not getting into their first choice school is absolutely absurd. Laughable. Deny ignorance, indeed!


Originally posted by Bad Dog
Truthseeka those posts don't sound like you. The style is very different.

I think that recent events at ATS have polarized people in this debate. To call out truthseeka alone is unjust, as I've noticed quite a few people who aren't sounding like themselves lately.

PS, Last night, I watched The Jeffersons on TVLand. It was the episode where some Klansmen move into the building. There had been a lot of burglaries and stuff, so all the usual people (George Jefferson; the white neighbor with the black wife, Tom Wilkes; the British guy) were ready to organize, so when they heard there was going to be a meeting about the 'riff-raff,' they attended. Of course, not knowing that it was a Klan membership drive, basically. So, George walks in, glad-handing people all around, etc, while the main Klan guy is saying, "We hear all the time about the minorities rights, but what about white rights?"

I was taken aback by that. That proved to me that ATS'ers are regurgitating Klan krap from the 1970's, whether they know it or not. It's disheartening that ATSers would associate themselves with that kind of ignorance.


PPS, Dock6, I think truthseeka is talking specifically about the US. Not Australia. That's a whole different issue.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 03:33 PM
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On to article trois...

White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack

This article is by Peggy McIntosh. What she says here makes the posts in this thread so far make sense to me:


I think whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege.


Writing the phenomenon as "white privilege" is a prime example of this. Denying its existence is another.

In her view:


I have come to see white privilege as an invisible package of unearned assets that I can count on cashing in each day, but about which I was "meant" to remain oblivious. White privilege is like an invisible weightless knapsack of special provisions, maps, passports, codebooks, visas, clothes, tools , and blank checks.


The key word here is invisible. Whites are not given a big bag of white privilege tricks to use; it's an invisible part of American society. And, since it's [invisible], whites have an easier time ignoring it or denying its existence. Continuing with male privilege as a backdrop to her understanding of white privilege, she adds:


After I realized the extent to which men work from a base of unacknowledged privilege, I understood that much of their oppressiveness was unconscious. Then I remembered the frequent charges from women of color that white women whom they encounter are oppressive. I began to understand why we are just seen as oppressive, even when we don't see ourselves that way. I began to count the ways in which I enjoy unearned skin privilege and have been conditioned into oblivion about its existence.

My schooling gave me no training in seeing myself as an oppressor, as an unfairly advantaged person, or as a participant in a damaged culture. I was taught to see myself as an individual whose moral state depended on her individual moral will. My schooling followed the pattern my colleague Elizabeth Minnich has pointed out: whites are taught to think of their lives as morally neutral, normative, and average, and also ideal, so that when we work to benefit others, this is seen as work that will allow "them" to be more like "us."


The denials of the existence of white privilege in this thread are good evidence for McIntosh's views here. This goes along with the perception that white privilege is not real, but that non-whites are imagining this (another use of white privilege here, i.e. the white reality is the "true" one). The last sentence there is a prime example of the assimilation/Anglo-conformity that every American is supposed to undergo. The new NBA dress code is a prime example of this.

Now, she details a number of white privileges. Note that she attempts to separate the effects of other variables, such as ethnicity and class, from these privileges, but she acknowledges they are connected.

Here's some from the list, as there are 50:


I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.


Those are some of the examples of white privilege, from McIntosh's perspective, for those who asked what it is.


For me white privilege has turned out to be an elusive and fugitive subject. The pressure to avoid it is great, for in facing it I must give up the myth of meritocracy. If these things are true, this is not such a free country; one's life is not what one makes it; many doors open for certain people through no virtues of their own.


Truly, that is one main reason to deny/avoid acknowledging white privilege. To do so would be to expose the lie of the "color-blind society where everyone is equal." And, of course, to expose this in the "bastion of freedom, the greatest, most liberated country in the world" would be foolish. Again, McIntosh discusses the intangible nature of WP.


I see a pattern running through the matrix of white privilege, a patter of assumptions that were passed on to me as a white person. There was one main piece of cultural turf; it was my own turn, and I was among those who could control the turf. My skin color was an asset for any move I was educated to want to make. I could think of myself as belonging in major ways and of making social systems work for me. I could freely disparage, fear, neglect, or be oblivious to anything outside of the dominant cultural forms. Being of the main culture, I could also criticize it fairly freely.


This is the crux of the matter. In all aspects of American life, being white puts one at an advantage over non-whites. And, as has been astutely pointed out
, minorities now have AA to their benefit (this includes white women, btw). What is commonly ignored is that programs such as AA result from the history of white privilege in America.



This paper results from a process of coming to see that some of the power that I originally say as attendant on being a human being in the United States consisted in unearned advantage and conferred dominance.

In my class and place, I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth.

...I was taught to think that racism could end if white individuals changed their attitude. But a "white" skin in the United States opens many doors for whites whether or not we approve of the way dominance has been conferred on us.

...The silences and denials surrounding privilege are the key political tool here. They keep the thinking about equality or equity incomplete, protecting unearned advantage and conferred dominance by making these subject taboo. Most talk by whites about equal opportunity seems to me now to be about equal opportunity to try to get into a position of dominance while denying that systems of dominance exist.


Here, she describes how denying the existence of WP help to keep it going. This is, in fact, portraying a reality. If the group in control says something doesn't exist, it is not real (Winston's math lesson at the hands of O'Brien in 1984 is a prime example). If you say white privilege does not exist, even while you benefit from it, you keep WP alive. However, denying its existence does not make it fake; it is quite real.

On the AA note, it's interesting that

A) People benefitting from AA are ALWAYS assumed to be less qualified than white males.

B) Many whites oppose AA in higher education, yet do not seem to oppose legacy in higher education.

These have been 3 insightful articles discussing white privilege in America. The key phrase for the Australian poster is in America. These pieces all pertain to American society. Unfortunately, they detail a phenomenon that shatters any notion of a "color-blind society where we are all equal."



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 03:37 PM
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The number of blacks INCREASED by OVER 3,000% in less than 150 years between the mid-1800s and 2000.

THAT SAYS IT ALL !!!!

It says that blacks have NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD !

It PROVES it.

And if the whiners amongst the blacks STILL feel they have something to complain about (apart from not all being able to have a new Mercedes each, courtesy of Whitey) then perhaps they should pack their bags and head back to good ole Africa.

Because I guarantee them they will NOT enjoy a 3,000% increase in population there !

And I don't imagine anyone will stop them from trying.

Gee, Whitey might even give them free air-fare -- one-way tickets of course.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 03:40 PM
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Dock6,

Throughout your lengthy diatribe, you fail to realize one thing:

This is about a phenomenon that occurs in American society. If you want to rant about something, find an article about WP in Australia; then you can slam the Aborigines all you want.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 03:45 PM
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In FACT ----------- it's my belief that blacks in the US should be down on their knees, thanking Whitey for providing them SO MANY GREAT OPPORTUNITIES !

What opportunities did they have back in the kraal ? To wrest another goat from their neighbour by selling him their 12 year old daughter ?

The opportunity to have their heads split in by stone axes wielded by neighbouring tribes?

The chance to die from malnutrition?

The chance to die from malaria?

That wonderful African life-expectancy of 30 years at most?

What would they have in Africa --- apart from foul water that has to be carted five miles by hand?

No civilization. No schools. No hospitals. No education.

Just endless miles of dust and flies.

Gee, some people are never thankful, it seems, if we take Truthseeker/Ceci as example (sorry, but you're SO alike, you're almost indistinguishable and for all that, I think you speak Hebrew, lol)

Blacks ------ be GRATEFUL for the opportunity to live and breed in the first world !

Give thanks !

Stop whining !

Or --- consider the alternative.



posted on Feb, 23 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by HarlemHottie
PPS, Dock6, I think truthseeka is talking specifically about the US.

She was clearly talking about all whites.

Not Australia. That's a whole different issue.

No it isn't.. if it were it would have been put into the american politics forum. If australians are not welcome to speak on this issue.. maybe she should refer specifically to 'american whites' opposed to 'all whites'.

This is eerie.. Truth Seeker has never asked me not to post in the past.. must be another strange co-incidence.. spookie!





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