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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Mary didn't have a drop of the actual bloodline of David in her, did she?
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
9 Do thy diligence to come shortly unto me:
10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry.
12 And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus.
13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.
The Catholic Church says that both Joseph and Mary were of the house of David. So according to Sacred Tradition in the church, the messiah did indeed come from David's line. Of course that's tradition that has been passed down and it isn't in scripture.
Looking at scripture I see that the apostles weren't fond of Paul at all. In fact, Paul has some rather unpleasant words to say about Peter and even brags about getting into a fight (of words) with him. Paul also brags that he has worked harder than any other apostle ... etc etc
This may make me spend some extra time in purgatory for saying this, but I have always gotten the feeling that Paul was a bit 'on the outs' and that he thought himself better than the other apostles ... or a harder worker .. or smarter ... etc
I'm not a Paul fan.
Orangetom, I don't think "error" has much if anything to do with the problems between Jesus's hand-picked disciples and Paul. I think it was much more over Paul's perception of Jesus--after all, James and Peter and the others had known Jesus in life--they had travelled with him, eaten with him, slept beside him, talked with him, touched him, known him as a beloved friend and teacher. Then Paul--who never knew Jesus in life--comes in claiming to know Jesus better than his own friends and family did--presenting this other-worldly Christ figure that must have seemed wholly alien to the people who actually had known Jesus--claiming to be the anointed one to speak for his Christ.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
The Catholic Church says that both Joseph and Mary were of the house of David. So according to Sacred Tradition in the church, the messiah did indeed come from David's line. Of course that's tradition that has been passed down and it isn't in scripture.
Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11 And Josias F1 begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; 14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; 15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost
Text
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, 24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph, 25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge, 26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda, 27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri, 28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er, 29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, 30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim, 31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David, 32 Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson, 33 Which was the son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda, 34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor, 35 Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala, 36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech, 37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan, 38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
This is incorrect. The genealogy is in scripture. There is never need to go to the supposed Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Mary didn't have a drop of the actual bloodline of David in her, did she?
The Catholic Church says that both Joseph and Mary were of the house of David. So according to Sacred Tradition in the church, the messiah did indeed come from David's line.
I'm not a Paul fan.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
And, dispite your anti-Catholic bias, there are times to turn to Sacred Tradition in the Catholic Church. There is nothing 'supposed' about it. Sacred Tradition has been handed down for hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of years. It's there. It's real.
Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Sorry Sun, but those read like two different genealogies of Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus. Mary isn't mentioned at all. Any connection to the Levitical priesthood is tenuous, at best.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
No SunMatrix. It's YOU who are incorrect. Mary's geneology is not in scripture.
And, dispite your anti-Catholic bias, there are times to turn to Sacred Tradition in the Catholic Church. There is nothing 'supposed' about it. Sacred Tradition has been handed down for hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of years. It's there. It's real.
Mary was of the house of David according to Sacred Tradition. Take it or leave it. I know you, Sun Matrix, will leave it. But others will take it and therefore I present that information to those who wish to know it.
But if a evangelical christian would believe you...then they would have to accept the 'sacred tradition of the Jews' or at least be open to it. (i.e. the talmud,zohar, etc.)
Personally, I think that evangelical christians could benefit if they were to 'search with all their hearts'...at least, I benefited. I actually have peace now.
Originally posted by orangetom1999
You guys lost me here....
Why do we need to go to these sacred books??? Whats wrong with the Bible itself?? THe Geneology is not in there??
You dont need to go to any sacred books. If you read the NT you see other 'sacred books' such as Enoch referred there. And Enoch does go a long way in clarifying the flood account.
As for Geneology...there is a big debate between the rabbis and Michael Brown. (Jews for Jesus type dude...well the front apologist for christianity to the Jews)
Originally posted by sailghoti
So great was the conflict between Paul's brand of Christianity and that taught by Jesus prior to his crucifixion there was much animosity, open conflict and even outright rejection between Paul and several of the disciples chosen and publicly acknowledged by Christ.
I believe in God, but this is often the God of Spinoza or Einstein.