LaBTop,
Excellent work bro!

You are really getting into it and I am understanding your point much better now.

The fact that you can see through Russell's bs and prove it wrong is awesome!

Btw: I am Lyte Trip and Merc is my research partner Aldo the PentaCon narrator.

[edit on 12-3-2007 by Jack Tripper]

Then a lot of confusion on my side is solved, now you revealed those names and their connections to former ATS members.
I still remember the infighting of you two with the management here.
Seems to be resolved.

The YouTube link to Killtowns version of the Judicial Watch video posted by me on page 15 is not working anymore, it says now: "This video link is no longer available".
The other earlier link to the original JW video however, is still working.
I suppose Killtown withdrew it, or JW protested against his version.
I hope the JW version stays up long enough to create the frames I ask for below.

In the JW version, you can see that the flash is projected from the police car on a higher level than the back wheel rim, while in the Win Media version it is quite difficult to see if it comes from the top wheel rim as you proposed, and Russell also, I believe, or if it comes from a spot higher up, I think the trunk roof.
See again my no-text screen shot from the YouTube video, you can clearly see that the centre of the bright spot is higher than the centre of the left front wheel :



Does anybody have the means to place 2 the same timed screen shots of the 4:44 moment from JW and Win Media adjacent to each other here, so you can see the different position of the bright spot on the car?
Or find first a few clear frames from the 10 frames where the flash is visible, during the 29 f/s in the second between 4:44 and 4:45.


Because, of course there is a problem if it can be proved, as BigMoser already hinted at (if I got him right), that the reflection originates f.ex. from the lowest part of f.ex. a chromed wheel rim on that car.
If that is right, than that big flash must have come from under that car, reflecting on a flat piece of the rim, and up to the canopy.
Which is rather complicated compared to a direct reflection off the rim itself from the sun rays.
If reflected from the trunk hood, then it is sure a reflection from an object so far up, that it must be flying. If not, than a lot of luck must have been involved in the reflective angles, from the plane to the right rim at the back, under the car to the left rim at the back, and then up to the canopy.
Rather difficult light path, to say the least.
But I see it coming from the trunk hood.


Jack, don't you find it strange that this supposed VHS recording from 2001 is showing frames in a 29 f/s fashion? I think the FBI unit which "enhanced" the video after it was sent to them by this other, 85 videos holding FBI unit's female agent, has re-recorded it with a modern day, 2006 version, VHS recorder and then burned it on CD or DVD.
Strange thing however, you can set in Win Media v11, the speed to 1/16th of the original 1.0 speed, and it perfectly plays back at that speed.
Does that mean that the original VHS recorder which was used at Citgo, also was capable in 2001 of recording screen shots at 29 f/s or at least 16 f/s.?

One should also adjust some settings in Win Media v11, so it does not skip frames. There are 3 of these settings normally checked, uncheck them before downloading the windowsmetafile version, otherwise about 30 frames will be skipped. Which could be important frames.
Left click in the top left of the Win Media screen, click Extras, Options, Performance, Extended options, and then both in the Video speed and in DVD-video, uncheck the UseOverlays. And in the right column, uncheck SingleFrame Remove, to keep AV in synchrony.
(English text could be slightly different, my version is in another language).
Then you will get all frames from the video.
In the Properties, you can see that this windowsmetafile video plays at 29 frames/sec.

Yes I find lots of things strange about that security video LaBTop.

But I can't say for sure if that flash is from the plane and I can't say for sure any of the stuff Interpol the CCTV installer is saying is correct either.

I am not an expert on such matters.

But I can say for sure that I believe Robert Turcios over this perpetrator supplied data particularly in light of his account being corroborated by two Pentagon police officers.




People just need to use common sense with this.

We have the necessary testimony to blow the case wide open.

If you look closely, its like the flash is 2 seperate parts, I'm not sure though..

But it looks like "FLASH" then right after that split second moment it seems to strike the top of the car just slightly as it drives off.

First Jack. Of course it is in my and your opinion the most breaking news in the last years. But you and me also understand you have to get this whole PentaCon film in the wide open, worldwide.
Then the obvious honest recollection of these 3 witnesses who definitely place the plane flying low and to the north, together with your remarks of the thus unexplainable and totally irregular downing of the lightpoles and the impact damage offered by the official conspiracy theory, will let lots of viewers change their minds.

But not enough of them, if we don't supply additional proof or more witnesses.
The two Arlington National Cemetery witnesses who's testimonies are online to read since 9/11 already, are no strong witnesses, as long as we haven't found out their exact sighting spot of the plane position on 9/11.
I just realized, after seeing BigMosers Google Earth video named Citgo, which you also can find in his linked video page, that this cemetery also extends to near the Navy Annex building. So, if they worked there on 9/11, it's not strong corroborating extra proof. If they worked near that stone wall with fence on top, north of Citgo, then it is.

Secondly, BigMoser.

Thanks very much for those 3 video's I found from you in your link.
The latest one I enlarged, and to my eyes, it is clear that the reflected beam of the flash in the canopy, reflects from the roof and upper part of the police car.
How to get the enlarged YouTube version's 1 second time frame compiled as video sequences to see the same flash in that version is beyond me, can you manage to get that online?
Perhaps cut out only the whole flashed police car portion, from all 29 frames, and put them together as an animated GIF.

And do the same for the WMV file portion and make an animated GIF too.

Since one cannot see clearly that it bounces off the car roof and the rounded left top side in the smaller version.

When you observe your online version in enlarged view on the police car position only, I see it clearly coming from the whole car roof and part of the trunk roof, and from the rounded left top doors side (driver side).

This can only mean one thing, the flash comes from above, following my yellow painted light paths.


QUESTION :
Why can't the flash come from a south bound flying object and reflect from the police car doors or side panels or chromed wheels?

Because then, the light path ANGLES never match as identical incoming and outgoing angles, when reflected upwards to the canopy and camera !!!
Secondly because the sun is then BEHIND the south wards of Citgo flying plane and never can reflect in such immense intensity. The north part of the plane's body is then shadowed. The left wing should have to be angled down in a low position to be able to reflect light at all, downwards to the SIDE ONLY of that police car, and probably the north part of the canopy would block that light path.
And that would mean the plane downed wing would indicate it was sharply turning to the left, and it would have performed a long turn to the left.

Please try to undermine this thesis, nothing better than a healthy honest discussion to cover all possible light paths.

I miss Howard Roark to discuss things in a spirit of conviviality and mutual respect.

YOU never know, I could be wrong, you know.

So, before I attempt any more editing (I just have basic editing, plus Photoshop), what is our goal at THIS time?

We see the flash, what are we trying to figure out from this flash?]

Where the plane is? How high it is? Was it the body, tail, wing? etc. etc.

I just need a narrow goal to help me look for the specifics.

If you can make 2 sets of 1 second each, covering the duration of the flash, as an animated GIF, which are set as endless loops, cut out from an enlarged portion of the JW YouTube and WMV video segments, as a set of successive screenshots, we are able to see if the flash was reflecting from a horizontal surface on the car, or solely from a vertical surface on the car's side.
Perhaps add a few frames at the front and at the end of the flash, so you can see the contrast of the involved surfaces too.

I'm afraid we need someone with enhancing capabilities after that, to sharpen up those animated GIFs.


And of course all efforts would be moot if the FBI inserted that flash.
However, I have the feeling they left it in, based on their assumption that it was non-threatening to their indoctrinated view of the actual events, now proved to be wrong. Namely a plane flying on the Citgo south side.

I've never made a gif before and I am going to try something with my imagination, something close to it.. I sure hope it works.

Good work guys. Jack and co. could possibly be right. I'td be interesting to see what happens with this - looks a bit more north than I'd like. My brain's not good enough to tackle this, complex light paths based on marginal quality video, but the flash is clearly a good clue. One possibly helpful point I can offer, in case anyone still feels this was shot in the PM:

Looks like about 10:00 am to me.

1. The black and white police car is definitely standing in full sunlight.
2. The driver side and windows at that side are also in full sunlight.
3. Basically, thus, all parts of the car are in full sunlight at that side. And we see no bright CONSTANT flash when the car is static.

4. If the car was slightly moving just before the flash, like I and I just found out, Russell also suspect it to do, then the whole reflection pattern of that side is changing, and a situation could occur, you should think at first glance, where the sun is suddenly reflected straight in the camera.
But as you can see in the base of the flash reflection on the canopy, the circa 1 meter long oblong TL-box is clearly blocking the FIRST part of the flash, from the corner of the canopy to that TL-box. That means that the reflection goes from car, to TL-box glass cover, to camera lens.
Thus you have some impossible light path angles when you propose a direct path from sun, to car, to TL-box.
That's why we have to enhance the frames so you can see it is a light path from an object in the sky to the north, which reflects sunlight.
And can only reflect from HORIZONTAL parts of the police car.

5. Sun's position can be deducted from a few things in the video.
The angle of the shadows of the east canopy rim and north canopy rim can be divided in two, and that line is pointing to the sun's zenith position.
At the very start of the video, you see a person traversing the exit in front of the Dual Side pump exit to the east. Enlarge him and his shadow, which points to the sun. And many more data.
6. Of course we could search for the solid scientific data for the sun's position on 9/11, above the Pentagon, between 09:30 and 09:45.
But that would lead to endless bickering so well known from egocentric "scientists", like at Physics.org or Optics.org.
We are not waiting for that.
The only important deduction we are after:
The overall direction the sun's rays are coming, from it's position somewhere southwest in the sky above the Pentagon, and southwest from Citgo
Is the flash reflecting from HORIZONTAL parts of the car, especially the hood and/or the car's rooftop and/or trunk hood.


Now at BigMoser's pictures posted above:
The first one called Shadow, is too complicated for most readers here, since you have to go back 180° to get the direction of the sun related to the Dual Pump side video window with the police car flash in it.
The second one called Citgoshadows2, is probably an attempt to show us the direction of the sun at 9/11 ? See my rim shadows angle divided in half above.
The third one called Sunlight, I'm not sure what you mean, but it looks not very important to the discussion. Correct me if I'm wrong.

We can draw lines past the shadows from all 3 canopy rims, and conclude a few things from that, but it would be somewhat moot, since we don't know the specs from the used camera lens, and thus can't calculate the amount of distortion involved.

So let's concentrate on the Horizontal surface reflections, and if we can proof it is one, causing the intense flash.

Your compass must be moved around to the LEFT a lot, to get the real Google compass position, see photo's from google earth in this thread, and my remarks on the devided in two, rim shadows.
The sun was somewhere between south and west in your mistaken compass.

But it's a good idea to make that drawing! Please correct it and post again or edit it.

EDIT : Sorry, I have to go, you have to miss me for a few hours.
But I trust you guys will come a long with some good stuff while I'm offline.

[edit on 14/3/07 by LaBTop]

Sorry too tired to re-do it tonight. "North" then as I put it is actuallynorthish, NNW. Adjust others accordingly and it's what time it is. Presuming this is the north side of the station, right? Just a quick observation anyway. No big deal. Maybe I'll look at it some more later...

Originally posted by LaBTop

The third one called Sunlight, I'm not sure what you mean, but it looks not very important to the discussion. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Trying to add a tiny bit of something to show where the sun might be.

But anyhow, I'll try to now focus on a horizontal/vertical flash. Which, I think its time for the experts for enhancements since we have a general idea.

[edit on 14-3-2007 by BigMoser]

I don't know if this help you guys with what you're working on, but on 9/11/01 @ 13:37 GMT in Washington DC, the sun was 31 degrees above the horizon on a azimuth of 125 degrees (E 35 deg S).

The long axis of the Citgo canopy lies on an azimuth bearing of approximately 135 degrees (E 45 deg S)

Here is an illustration approximating the shadows on 9/11/01 @ 13:37 GMT. The direction is roughly accurate, the length is very accurate (assuming a 20 ft high canopy).



If an airplane flew directly over the canopy at 200 feet the shadow would have fallen 400 feet away.

If anyone saw a shadow in the Citgo video I'd have to say the plane was over the canopy and very low (<100 ft) or to the SE of the Citgo and somewhat higher.


[edit on 3/14/2007 by darkbluesky]

[edit on 3/14/2007 by darkbluesky]

Yeah, what he said and did there...

the black and white police car is definitely not moving until the flash disappears.

You can check that by watching the small horizontal white stripe on the back side of the car, just adjacent and touching the black canopy pole to the right of the car. It doesn't move at all, in the second before the flash, and starts moving to the left when the car starts driving away.
Just use the slow motion feature, and set the speed to 0.000 instead of 1.000.
Then click the right small arrow once, and repeat that until you see the first sign of the flash.

So me and Russell were both wrong in our assumption that the car slightly moved just before the flash, and then assuming that another light reflecting part of the car could have come into position to eventually reflect sunlight.

The impression of movement is probably induced in the eye, when the film is shown in normal speed with no clicking of the big blue arrow, and is caused by the irrational jumping up and down and shifting from left to right of the whole Dual Pump side video window. It's only a millimetre at the most, but is responsible for the virtual movement of the car, but in fact it is motionless.
You can only see the motionless when you use the above slow motion method.

I am more and more convinced that the reflection comes from the roof top of the passengers part of the car.
You can see two very thin white lines, one left and one right to the beam of the flash, on top of the car roof. And they are not there when the flash is absent.


EDIT : just now see your remarks and photo, darkbluesky.
It's very helpful, since it also has the Google compass in it at the bottom left.
Thank you very much for the azimuth directions, do you have a link where you got this info from?
You know I have to ask, people will want to double check all data when this is going mainstream.

[edit on 14/3/07 by LaBTop]