It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The PentaCon

page: 15
65
<< 12  13  14    16  17  18 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 3 2007 @ 10:59 PM
link   
LaBTop,

I don't have any special privledges as a "conspiracy master" I was merely suggesting that you make a new thread if you want.

To be honest I don't know if you can or if I am the only one that can post threads in this forum.

Try it and let me know!

To be honest with you though.....I am sick of theorizing.

We have enough data now that we KNOW this was a black op.

We don't need to figure out "if" or "how" anymore.

We need investigations into "who".

But by all means.....theorize away!

It's fascinating to read and consider anyway.




posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 09:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by LaBTop
6. The famous Exit Hole was in fact an entry hole for the special unit entering the still burning offices to finish off eventual survivors of ONI and the accounting offices, but mainly to be sure all ONI and Accounting databases were destroyed or taken with them. They did that during the false alarm for a second incoming plane, when all rescue personnel was ordered out and back to the overpasses.
7. Remember the many witness statements about a second explosion? That was the "Exit Hole" blow in, with detonation cords.
Never asked yourself why that damn hole had such a peculiar near perfect round shape?


Funny that you address this because I just wondered about the exit hole a day ago.
If this is the exit hole then where is the material dense thing that created this?
I am not up to date and maybe I missed it.. does someone know what exited there? I saw nothing on the photos and it has to be something dense like an engine or something otherwhise you will not get that hole.



posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 10:13 AM
link   
..And yet to have seen any media surrounding this incredible find by Jack Tripper.

Where is the Grand Jury ? Where are all the arrests ?

LMFAO !

I can't wait for Pentacon FC



posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 11:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by LaBTop


If the two officers and a lot of other witnesses were right, then we have a huge problem :
Where is the WIDE, HEAD ON damage pattern inside E, D and C-rings? And the outer wall head on damage pattern?
And how and why did they down the light poles in that pattern?
And how did they imprint the wall impact pattern shown in the pre-collapse photo's of corporal Ingersoll and a few others.



the problem is not that huge if a) hit location is different from what we expect (ie. roof) and b) the plane did not penetrate very far. still, the absence of debris and fire damage on the lawn indicated that either all footage as faked or a) has to be true. for some reason, though, people felt compelled to cut light poles, partially demo the facade and impose the strange diagonal column failure pattern, complete with awkward flightplan, err route, perhaps on order to reconcile the official story with the alledged 'exit hole'.

these weird operations were either designed to create confusion among us or (more likely, imho) something went terribly wrong and damage control made a ton of mistakes. literally hundreds of faked photos (911studies ?) lend further creedence to this variant.

the real reason why they apparently panicked was more likely than not the nature of the inflicted damage. someone very important died there or some very important files or other top secret stuff was destroyed. wasn't it you, LT, who proposed the real GWB might have died at the pentagon?



posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 11:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by CameronFox
..And yet to have seen any media surrounding this incredible find by Jack Tripper. Where is the Grand Jury ? Where are all the arrests ? LMFAO !




Jack Tripper has presented some very importance evidence here Cameron. Probably some of the best since all of this started. There will probably be no grand jury and no arrests which I find truly sad. I fail to see why you are LYAO. Perhaps you could share that with me? Thanks.



posted on Mar, 4 2007 @ 04:16 PM
link   
Interesting new ATS thread, about the flight data of flight 77

www.abovetopsecret.com...

following this link there to
pilotsfor911truth.org...

Is an interesting animaton (middle of the page) of the whole and slow turn.
After this were no more hdg correction (does not match with jacks flight path,or darkblues, or even mine) and interesting enough the final is in alignement to the 2 officiers only.

Is this viedeo wrong (wrong flight data + 2 police officers) or are all the other whitness wrong.. it becomes more and more interesting.
Outcome the same, light poles could not have been hit.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jack Tripper
We don't need to figure out "if" or "how" anymore.

We need investigations into "who".


...and don't forget "why."

I look forward to reading your conclusions in these areas.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 02:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by Essedarius

...and don't forget "why."

I look forward to reading your conclusions in these areas.




My opinion for 'why" is:

(1) To provide an excuse for limiting our freedoms and expanding government control.
(2) To provide an excuse to go into Afghanistan and prevent Osama bin Laden from destroying any more opium crops.
93) To provide and excuse to invade Iraq. (I am not sure the real agenda was for this one.)
(4) To polarize American opinion against Arabs/Muslims and the Muslim Religion. This last is to secure an enemy for all time. Our economy is based and must be based on a wartime effort. We were running out of legitimate enemies so we had to fabricate the 'biggest enemy of all' (not including the aliens).



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 03:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by johnlear
My opinion for 'why" is...


I’ll respond to your reasons with a multiple choice question:

* * *

The illustrious career of George W. Bush shows that he is:

a)
A stubborn man who is willing to make decisions flatly with a complete disregard for popular opinion.

b)
A puppet of popular opinion, unwilling to make a move without first garnering the support of the majority.

* * *

I think that (a) would be the overwhelming answer here…and yet most of the “WHY” support you provide presupposes (b).

I guess what I’m asking is why would an administration go through the trouble of pulling off such an extravagant backstabbing with the primary goal of netting public support that they’ve always shown such little regard for?



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 03:05 PM
link   
Here is a link to the NTSB website where you can download the DFRD data from AA 77 and other 9-11 flights:

www.ntsb.gov...

From this report, I took the following page of DFDR plots which shows that just prior to impact, AA 77 experienced no more than 1.8 g of vertical loading.



This plot also shows some significant roll inputs near the end if the flight .....up to 40 degrees. I dont know enough about the DFDRs to determine if this is a reading of yoke position, or actual bank angle, but regardless, the vertical g readings show AA 77 couldn't have performed the steep bank turn I was hypothesizing, to take it over the canopy AND light poles.

I withdraw my altternate flight path argument.

One more word....There seems to be much controversy, debate, and confusion regarding the DFDR data. If you're interested, I recommend reading the thread g210b referenced above.



[edit on 3/5/2007 by darkbluesky]



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 08:29 PM
link   
This is the Judicial Watch September 11 Pentagon Citgo Video
"" Adding comments have been disabled for this video.""
Interesting, so I and others can't post the following earthshaking finds?
For more information go to www.judicialwatch.org , which organization viciously tries to prove that all non-official conspiracy theories are "bogus".
I am wondering what they have to say about Jack's video and witnesses, and what follows below.

Please download and save ( you must be YouTube member for saving ) the video first, so it can't be altered again.
In spite of all their efforts to hide the plane, it is still there :



Watch the upper right camera window, called " Dual Pump Side # ".
You can catch the clear and definite reflection of the plane at the NORTH side of the Citgo gas station EVEN in this altered version, the FBI blurred out the upper part of the north looking camera. Now, why would they do that at all, when they themself follow the official south Citgo fly path ??? This upper blurred out band is the MOST important part, it will show the plane flying as low as the 3 witnesses of Jack said, or it's shadow on the sun lit ground.
One thing we may deduct from this : the plane or it's shadow is there, and therefor that band is blurred out by the FBI.
FILE a FOIA request for the unaltered version of that video, without the blurred out top band of camera "DUAL PUMP SIDE #", but now with a clear view of that blurred out, by them, band.
There is no >SANE< reason for the FBI to not release that unaltered version, in light of the latest findings.
And the blurring out of the pay counter by the FBI is in this case also nearing insanity.
It suits only one reason. We can't see perfectly, the reactions of the customers and employees, at the moment of fly-by of Flight 77, especially their head movements, and the reaction on the impact at the Pentagon.


This is a screenshot, without my remarks, of the original video, Judicial Watch obtained via a FOIA request, from the FBI :

Source : files.abovetopsecret.com...



This is the same one, with my, LaBTop, remarks :

Source : files.abovetopsecret.com...




If you doubt that the FLASH is really there, download the video, open it in full screen modus and slide the tiny ball on the slider to the 04:43 minutes point in the above YouTube video, and double-click repeatedly with a very short interval, with your left mouse button, on the start-film arrow at the left side of the slider, until you catch the flash at 04:44.
You can also use the sight impairment aid from the Microsoft XP desktop, the loupe function, there you can enlarge even to 8 times.

I don't know if this is a bad feature of all YouTube videos, but you can only go back with small multiple 8 seconds increments, in this case you can only slide the slider back to 3 important points, the 04:35, 04:43 and 04:51 points, to start from there with your short left mouse double-clicks.
Be sure to first start from the 04:43 point and observe the upper center line of the DUAL PUMP video in the top right corner of the combined video records from the Citco gas station. You'll definitely see the flash come and go.

The position of the very bright flash in the exact top-center of the camera (lens and video-window) is important.
It's the very bright reflection at 09:37 or 38:?? minus 2 seconds (exact time of impact still not known, can now be computed from this video) from the sun's light on the fuselage of the well known polished aluminum outer hull of Flight 77.
Passing low, but higher than the Citgo canopy, to the north of that canopy, with at least 350 knots, 648.2 km/hr groundspeed, but according to the official data, faster, around 450 knots, 833.4 km/hr.
1 knot is 1 Nautical Mile per hour, a knot is also used worldwide as the "international air mile".

www.9-11commission.gov...
► ""At 9:37:46, American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, traveling at approximately 530 miles per hour."" ( 9/11 Commission )
That's 530 m/h x 1.609= 852.77 km/h.
And 852.77 km/h x 2.777 E-01 = 236.81 meter per second.
(Takes less than 2 seconds from Citgo fly-by-north, to impact.)

With no flaps out. In densest air at near groundlevel.
A Boeing 757 can fly that fast at 42,000 feet in very thin air.
Not in dense air at ground level.
And especially not flying the aerobatic flightpath in the last 300 meters, I'll address that in the next post.

The problem arrising now of course, is that we can't trust the 9/11 Commission calculations (and any other former official flight path followers), anymore. So the search for the real groundspeed of Flight 77 is totally open again.


Please don't try to be smart, you "Deniers at all costs", and post here that it could be the flash of the impact, half a kilometer away.
Then the whole inside of the canopy and shiny gas pumps would have been illuminated and have reflected that explosive flash.
And especially the glass windows at the inside of the pay counter room, visible in the lower camera window under the "Dual Pump Side #".
Or come up with the reflection of a car window.
All of that, impossible according to optical laws.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 08:34 PM
link   
Try the flash effect out yourself.
Find a shiny piece of aluminium tubing, and a small but sharp torch-lite or light bulb.
Then simulate the scenery at the Citgo gas station, with a piece of carton as the canopy.
Place your lamp as the sun, in your back right, in a bit downward position, and keep your eye level under the carton-canopy.
Observe first in my first clean video shot how the shadows of the canopy were projected by the sun, as you see, the sun was already fairly high. Shadows were cast a bit to the left.
Close one eye, the open other eye is now your "camera lens".
Then move the alu-pipe very fast horizontally through your one-eye sight, from left to right, in front of the carton canopy, but so high, that you barely can see the pipe.
Watch the stroboscopic effect, the flash.
Your eye can only keep hold of less than 25 frames per second, so everything faster than approximately 15 frames looks like one flash in a video. When you're drunk, or intoxicated by drugs, it's even less than normal.

You can actually observe in the Citgo video, faint starting of the big flash and dimming of it, around the 04:44 point.
That gives already an indication how many frames per second the video recorded.

As you can see in the clean "flash" screenshot, the position of the plane's body was nearly exactly there where Chadwick Brooks and William Lagasse both said it entered their eye field.
And because of the strong perspective distortion in the background, it looks closer, but it is in fact further away than you think.

When I get a sharper and bigger video, we can unleash some computing at the measurements of known objects, and deduct a lot more, with more accuracy than now can be obtained. But feel free to give it a try.

Jack needs to make some photo's or video shots from the position of that camera, and take some measurements where we can work with.
I hope he already was so smart and provides them in the upcoming researchers edition.
Length from canopy poles to corners of parking lots, length of Lagasse's car, that sort of data.
A good sharp video shot or a high definition JPEG photo, from the point of that security camera titled "DUAL PUMP SIDE #", would be utterly helpful. With some 1 meter rulers clearly and sharp visible in strategic places.
Be fast, I expect a lot of harassment coming up for 9/11 investigators at that Citgo gas station, when you turn up there again.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 08:39 PM
link   
www.9-11commission.gov...
► ""At 9:37:46, American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, traveling at approximately 530 miles per hour."" ( 9/11 Commission )
That's 530 x 1.609= 852.77 km/h. With no flaps out. In densest air at near groundlevel.
A Boeing 757 can fly that fast at 42,000 feet in very thin air.
Not in dense air at ground level.

Source : killtown.911review.org...




Next some more exerpts from Killtown.
Source : killtown.911review.org...

This graphic by JP Desmoulins shows the trajectory (purple line) that Flight 77 would have had to fly in at to clip the tops of the lamp poles high up on the road (blue lines) and then enter the 1st floor of the Pentagon (which I would agree). The red dotted line (which I drew in) estimates the trajectory that the official theory seems to suggest if the object in the security photos flying very low and parallel across the ground is indeed Flight 77.



► "At 9:38 a.m. on September 11 an airliner was flown into the first story of the Pentagon." [pg. 4]
"Two photographs (figures 3.3 and 3.7), when compared, seem to show that the top of the fuselage of the aircraft was no more than approximately 20 ft above the ground when the first photograph of this series was taken." [pg. 14]
"The Boeing 757 approached the west wall of the Pentagon from the southwest at approximately 780 ft/s. As it approached the Pentagon site it was so low to the ground that it reportedly clipped an antenna on a vehicle on an adjacent road and severed light posts. When it was approximately 320 ft from the west wall of the building (0.42 second before impact), it was flying nearly level, only a few feet above the ground." [pg. 18]
"Eyewitness accounts and photographs taken by a security camera suggest that the aircraft was flying on nearly a level path essentially at grade level for several hundred feet immediately prior to impact." [pg. 35] - Pentagon Building Performance Report



"His gas station, open only to Department of Defense personnel, is the last structure between the Pentagon and the hillside that, hours later, would become a wailing knoll. "By the time I got outside all I could see was a giant cloud of smoke, first white then black, coming from the Pentagon," he said. "It was just a terrible, terrible thing to be so close to."
"Velasquez says the gas station's security cameras are close enough to the Pentagon to have recorded the moment of impact. "I've never seen what the pictures looked like," he said. "The FBI was here within minutes and took the film." -National Geographic (12/11/01)


You still think that in case of such an earth shattering event, FBI agents would not concentrate all on aid, but directly concentrated on confiscating all possible video material from EIGHTY FOUR sources around the Pentagon?
And you still think that that would not have needed to be PLANNED a long time in advance?
If so, I pitty your objectivity.



► "In the final few seconds before the terrorist-commandeered plane exploded into the Pentagon, the plane roared down on Columbia Pike, almost skimming the roof of the STC after barely missing the Sheraton Hotel. The noise, VDOT team members said, was unbelievably loud, and most felt the hijacker was nosing down the plane at full throttle. "It was so close the building was shaking," recalls Jimmy Chu, STC manager.
Some VDOTers were sure the plane had shifted its direction slightly to avoid a 100-foot-tall cellular tower adjacent to the STC building. As the plane went over the STC, the hijacker banked the plane, lifting the right wing up, in order to swoop down the hill into the target.
Just before impact, the plane clipped off two VDOT light poles on Washington Boulevard, a football field or two away from the Pentagon. In the same area, the blast from the plane's impact damaged the lenses of one of VDOT's traffic monitoring cameras and knocked the camera sideways." -Roads to the Future (09/21/01)

► "The Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT) CCTV system used to manage the Northern Virginia freeway network had cameras in place that observed the September 11 crash site at the Pentagon. This CCTV system and the VDOT Smart Traffic Center were used as a command center for emergency responders and cleanup and recovery crews following the incident." -ARINC

View VDOT light pole traffic cams at: TrafficLand Find A Camera
(See cameras: ON WASHINGTON BLVD @ I-395 & ON WASHINGTON BLVD @ Pentagon/I-395)


Source :
Yahoo map + Sheraton Hotel, Columbia Pike +Washington Boulevard.



Jack, can you or your crew find more on these two clipped off VDOT light poles on Washington Boulevard?
Could it be that they were situated on YOUR flightpath? Find out where all VDOT light poles in your flight path are situated.

As you can see, more and more, the most reliable witnesses all said the plane followed the line of Columbia Pike, which does not fit with your proposed yellow flightpath.
I think the witness on the golf course driving range is not reliable or got the plane confused with the following C-130 fly over.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 08:49 PM
link   
www.youtube.com... (Killtowns posted Citgo video version at YouTube) :



His comment :

Added December 02, 2006
From Killtown
CITGO gas station's security video of Pentagon hit shows no plane. The "crash" is @ 4:44.

Video was released on September 15, 2006 to JudicialWatch :
www.judicialwatch.org...

See also: September 15, 2006
killtown.911review.org...


Killtown obviously noticed the flash also, but was lead to believe that it was the impact flash, because he and many with him still believed the official south of Citgo fly path, so what else than the explosion could it be, will all have thought at that moment of posting data.
Which deduction is impossible in my strong opinion, since no illumination by an explosive flash of the inside of the Citgo gas station is to be observed in the Citgo video.

Btw, found this picture on his above mentioned page, all at the bottom :

Source : killtown.911review.org...



And you deniers really think these camera's didn't record what happened?
And from which direction?
Of course not (sarcasm), the same military who managed to let 7 trillion dollars worth of black operation funds, disappear, had not invested in top notch security camera's and recorders.
Btw, a colonel ran into the security room near the main entrance, and OBSERVED all recordings from what just had happened, on 9/11.
Guess what's been done with all these recordings.



Another definite smoking gun, found by me :
www.studyof911.com...#
It's the TOTAL discrepancy between LDEO seismic charts of the WTC 7 collapse, and the NIST reports, and the 9/11 Commission Report.

I would like to open myself, in this, Jack's forum, a discussion on it.
And on the above Plane FLASH.
Two new threads, by me.

Jack, ask an Admin. Or an admin contact me, whatever is faster.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 09:20 PM
link   
you can actually get these perpetraitors by the balls?

Because of their hilarious levels of secrecy.

The FBI analysts who had to blur these video shots, didn't knew at that time, that the plane actually flew by on the north side of the Citgo gas station, they were convinced that it flew by, south of it.

None of the "masterminds" could take the risk to inform them, so the analysts gladly left the flash in, so the Army propaganda arm could seed the idea of it being the impact flash.

They call that : "" Tripping over your own wires "", in intelligence circles.



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 09:51 PM
link   
This is a clear shot (supposedly nowadays) from the north canopy of the Citgo station.
Can you imagine that the plane flash ONLY came from a point about a meter to the right from the nearest black support post, if that flash would be a reflection of the impact explosion?
See first my clean screenshot again :

Source : files.abovetopsecret.com...



Impossible. As I said before, the whole station's inside canopy roof would have been illuminated.
See how shiny everything is (easy reflecting light), and how shiny the cars are. They would have been reflecting impact light like light towers.

Source : i128.photobucket.com...



posted on Mar, 5 2007 @ 09:59 PM
link   
Labtop, I totally agree with the flash as a reflection, as you can see the dark colored car getting a reflection also right under it, the car got the reflection on the "south" side of it so you think that the plane or wing might have flown over the canapy?



posted on Mar, 6 2007 @ 12:14 AM
link   
LaBTop,

Check your u2u.


Sorry to rain on your parade but I don't think that flash is from the plane.

You can see the reflection coming off the rim of a car that pulls over just at that moment.



posted on Mar, 6 2007 @ 10:36 AM
link   
Jack, I think it is coming from the rooftop side that comes down and THEN flashes on the car. Kinda like this ">". Am I on the same page as you?

[edit on 6-3-2007 by BigMoser]



posted on Mar, 6 2007 @ 12:01 PM
link   
So this "undeniable 100%" proof is 4 random guys out of dozens of witnesses who say the opposite of the rest of them? And these supposedly credible witnesses are far from it.

The 2nd guy was an absolute mess, who seemed confused by even what he was saying and reportedly changed his story after the filming.

The last cop was an absolute joke. Heres a guy who undeniably gets several things wrong in his own story and changes it several times even within the interview itself! Give me a break. First off the guy gets where he actually was wrong, then we hear that he changed his story about being in the car or getting knocked in the car by some blastwave of a jet hundreds of feet away (and this guy claiming hes some airplane expert) lol. How the hell do you say you get tossed into a car by a blastwave then change that story... seems like something you wouldn't just make up in the first place by mistake. 3rd, after deciding that he was inside the car when the plane hit, he then claims he felt the heat of the explosion while inside a car hundreds of feet away :-O

Next we have the fact that the gas station guy says the wing was right over the station while the 2 cops are saying no it was nowhere close to being over the station.... yet theres much claim that "ALL THESE WITNESSES 100% BACK UP EACHOTHERS STORIES".
Just like the fact one guy says its a dark grey plane with black wings and another says its bright silver and another says its a dull white.. lol

All of the witnesses seem like their memories are very fuzzy and are often looking around for long periods of time before answering as if struggling to remember (especially the last cop deciding on a flight path). The 1st guy drew 2 different lines with are completely different flight paths... and we never see any proof in this that what he drew connects with what the 2 cops drew.

The big kicker is the absolutely bogus leap they make at the end. We are supposed to believe this cop when he says its "100%" that the plane was flying to that side of the station. But the fact that he says its "100%" that he saw it hit the pentagon and theres no way it was a staged explosion according to his explosive expertise... we are supposed to ignore that fact! So we are told we absoltely have to believe part of his story but then ignore the rest. All 3 of the guys say they saw it hit the building.. yet we are supposed to not believe that yet believe the rest of their wonderful stories.

Yep, instead we should believe they somehow managed to miss a plane going over the top of the building.. and some staged explosive somehow managed to go off before the plane it (or else theyd clearly see it go over the roof) yet didn't damage a plane at all which would have to fly right through this massive fireball... yep! And then we are supposed to believe these guys and every other witness all somehow missed a huge plane flying over the pentagon and climbing back in the sky. Some plume of smoke somehow obscured every possible angle of vantage in the huge horizon so no one could see this plane continue its flight.. and the "government" was willing to gamble their whole plan on this being the case... hahaa. If you are directly in front of the impact point and the plane continued to fly straight forever after clearin the roof.. maybe a smoke plume would cover it..... but these guys as well as dozens of other wtinesses were off at an angle of the impact point and there is no way theyd all miss a plane flying over the roof and leaving the area.

So we're supposed to deny all other eye witness accounts and physical evidence in favor of 4 random other witnesses and a whole lot of logic leaping.

PS: I'm not saying I know that the "official" story is true or I know what happened that day... but the way this documentary is handled claiming "100%" proof then just giving us 4 witnesses with opposite stories of dozens of others and ridiculous claims is irresponsible

[edit on 6-3-2007 by nybaseball44]



new topics

top topics



 
65
<< 12  13  14    16  17  18 >>

log in

join