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Trapped in a web of illusion.

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posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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Money was there to increase TRADE.




posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 01:43 PM
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Seems to me that a large percentage of the posters on this thread don't get the true meaning of this thread. Oh,well, what else is new?


[edit on 26-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 02:43 PM
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It's just part of the source that comes from the sides and from bellow and contributes to the negative energy in the balance of life. I have learned to accept it last night and learned to accept everything that came to be and detach my self completely from it.

It's all good, there is eternity ahead.



Peace and love everyone.



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 04:09 PM
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Maybe when I was 13 I might have agreed with this post. Money is the root of all evil, guns kill, etc. etc.

Listen........ You've got a field of corn. You need a loaf of bread. Bread lady still has 40 ears of corn from the last time you traded her for bread, and she'd rather trade the few loafs of her bread for some fish. What will you do? Not everyone likes corn, but it's the only thing you can trade someone, because that's what you spent your strength cultivating all year long. If they don't need your corn but you need their bread,... what are you going to do? This is where money comes in. You sell your corn to those who need and want it, you get money, and you get to buy what you need. Bread lady will give you bread in exchange for money because she can use that money to buy whatever she wants and needs to buy.
What a great system. People work hard to contribute to society who needs them, they get paid, and then get to buy whatever they need to lead a comfortable life instead of running all over the country trying to trade their corn to those who might want it, and have what you need.
Like someone else already mentioned, money is a way to trade your labour.

Now.... bread lady could have been "nice" and just given you a loaf of bread in exchange for yet more corn she'll never eat,..... but she won't. Why would she be such a jerk? Could it be because corn can't sustain her health nutrition-wise, and she needs a bit of meat in her diet? Or maybe she'd rather keep from freezing to death in the winter by exchanging her bread for firewood.

It's all about survival. Until every single one of us is perfectly willing to die for the other, I don't see this kind of reasonable greed going away. It's how we pass on our genes. Money can do good things. You can help people by donating your money to those who need it. It is you who decides if the money that belongs to you does good or evil.

Money is not the problem. The problem isn't even people who live to reasonably gratify themselves,...... the problem is people who try to obtain money in an unfair, ugly manner, stepping on others to get it, and using their financial power to oppress others. These people are so addicted to physical gratification, or some crazy "idealistic" idea they came up with that they will do ANYTHING to make it happen, because the ends justify the means (and sometimes, though not very often, they do).

If you want us to live like the Smurfs, say so. A community of people living in one village/town/city, producing the things each person needs, and then distributing those products equally among the population is a great idea........ until someone becomes a bit too ambitious (as is natural to a human being,... a territorial creature) and turns the whole town upside down. Do you realize how many egos you'd have to trample to make such a thing happen? What precautions would you take to prevent people from trying to topple the system to gratify their hunger for conquering and becoming "King"? You'd have to lobotomize people all over the world, or drug them to keep their ambitions at bay, and that's no way to live.
The only way to change the world is to change ourselves, become kinder, more generous, more helpful, more understanding, more open-minded, more responsible with the way we obtain and spend money. Abolishing money isn't going to do any of that.
Just my opinion of course.



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 04:25 PM
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2manyquestions, are you familiar with the term Philosopher-King as coined by Plato? This also occurs in Candide's Voltaire at El Dorado. A utopia is a possibility only if the populace is enlightened enough to elect a leader that really has the people's needs at heart (maybe a couple of our past US Presidents had this trait). I would consider it altruism perhaps?

Money is not necessary, will never be necessary, and has very little positive effect on our lives. As menguard said, it has enabled trade; profit for merchants and nobles, but hardship and sorrow for the "lower" class. I don't think this is the way humans were meant to live. Our own brothers and sisters are slaves yet we still want our fast food, tv programs, etc.

Where is the justice? Where is the love? I know its here because I see it everyday in life. I hope the majority of humanity finds it within themselves.

peace and love,
bs



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 05:06 PM
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That's what I'm trying to tell you. Money isn't the problem, we are. Money is just paper. It doesn't have feelings one way or the other. It doesn't control us, we control it. Until every single one of us on this planet changes his/her lifestyle and beliefs, until every single person agrees with the system, you can't have a utopia. We're talking abolishing every major religion, taking posessions from people and redistributing them equally among the masses,.... I mean... it starts to sound a lot like Communism, a form of government I had the pleasure (that's sarcasm) to live under for a while. Let's just say it didn't go well. Under Communism everyone had a job (everyone was forced to work somewhere), all the lands belonged to the Government (or the way they liked to say it.... it belonged "to the people"
),.... I mean... sure everyone had healthcare, but it was crappy health care for many different reasons. I'm not going to go into detail about what went wrong with Communism....... lots of things........ but I can tell you that the people who developed that idea just happened to want something along the lines of what you want,... Utopia. It was anything but.

Money has certainly NOT caused hardship on anyone. It's paper! It can't do anything we don't make it do! It's like blaming a gun for killing your friend. The gun is only a tool that can be used in a positive or negative way by the user. The USER killed, the gun is an object that cannot possibly make that decision. You might as well start blaming knives for all the murders and accidental cuts over the centuries. Or maybe you'll blame the rain for flooding the houses that were built in a friggin flood zone.

In conclusion I agree that we should become more enlightened, but getting rid of money isn't going to help us do that, because money is not causing all the evils in the world,.... we are! You know why? Because we are territorial, jealous, loving, hateful, fearful, emotional,..... animals........ human.



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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2manyquestions speaks the truth. end of discussion.




Money is not necessary, will never be necessary, and has very little positive effect on our lives. As menguard said, it has enabled trade; profit for merchants and nobles, but hardship and sorrow for the "lower" class. I don't think this is the way humans were meant to live. Our own brothers and sisters are slaves yet we still want our fast food, tv programs, etc.


oh really. what about all the people who were lower class , and because of the money system, and although i hate to admit it, money hungry corporations, was able to make something of himself and provide him, his family, wife/gf, and friends with a better life, and better opportunities.
your in such denial its become dissapointing. you really will not look to see whats TRULY on the flip side of your ideals. it sucks to see how money can destroy people, but its also good to see how money can change many peoples lives, and the lives of others for the better.
your worry of the money system is pointless. your better off trying to get rich and help others around you, rather than trying to build an army of people wanting to destroy the money system worldwide. whats your genius plan if you could do that? hypothetically speaking, if any of you here could destroy the money system at the end of the week, what would you put in place of it?
it seems like your assuming human nature is going to all of a sudden change because you take away the "money system". unless you plan on doing what 2many suggested. its inevitable that the problem will rise again, just with a "different face".
did you guys really read what 2manyquestions wrote? really, im serious. did you read the scenario he posted above. then after you read it, did you understand and see how it would apply.
sorry. the system is good, and it also has its bads. at this point in humanity right now, taking it away is not an option, and not even worth the thought. youre wasting thought! if anything, you need to work towards playing the game and getting a ton of money so you can put it to good use, and exposing those who dont put money to good use. but your best bet really is to just selfishly do you, and then hopefully you do it right, and you can help others out.

your talking about people as your brothers and sisters, but what if they dont think of you as that. ever thought of that? its a bit pessimistic, but im just saying. just because you love them, doesnt mean people will love you back. not all these people in the world sir. you have alot of folks with different beliefs than you to try to please. im assuming you are reffering to a global change in your post, not just your local town.

im just sayin




posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 05:38 PM
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double post. just read what he wrote again, and again, homeboy speaks the truth. close thread



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 06:10 PM
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It's all good people,

Things are changing,

Just got to ACCEPT it and live in harmony with the universe and our existence.

Those who wants to be part of it, it's only natural for them to be in that state of mind in their current state of existence, we all been through it, a natural process.

Accept it all, accept the balance of life and accept it with out being part of it if it's no longer in your nature to do so, be one with love and life.

Moving on, moving up.

Sides and bottom can no longer stop us.



Peace and love.



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 06:16 PM
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The outside influences bounces off like a waterfall falling on you and bouncing off the sides.

Creating a endless source of energy to be one with your self and your existence, completely no ego, completely no hate, completely loving forever.

The waterfall no longer affects your existence and that is the creation of energy within you, the eternal energy.



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 07:08 PM
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Jimmy thanks for the support.
It's obvious that Selfless here has no intention of listening to reason. Maybe he/she will be the next person to try and set up a Communist regime in his/her country. Maybe this time it will really work!!!



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Jimmy thanks for the support.
It's obvious that Selfless here has no intention of listening to reason. Maybe he/she will be the next person to try and set up a Communist regime in his/her country. Maybe this time it will really work!!!



Obviously you are not aware of my intentions :0

Listen to reason? what reason? i am not here to debate anything.

Read the last thing i said, it's all good no worries and no arguing from me.

Peace and love.



posted on Feb, 26 2007 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Maybe he/she will be the next person to try and set up a Communist regime in his/her country. Maybe this time it will really work!!!


I have no intentions of doing so :0

I will not contribute to any political aspect of reality.

Peace and love.



posted on Feb, 27 2007 @ 07:42 AM
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jimmy, I think you misinterpreted my wording. However, I did understand yours...

I thought like you up until a few years ago. I have never thought of money being necessary, even as a little kid though.

People create their own realities, simple as that. We are what we think, eat, breathe, etc.

Are you familiar with the idea in quantum physics where everything is at a singularity and also exists in a grid-like matrix across the universe? If you do subscribe to this kind of teaching, one would assume you practice "good" energy sessions where you send out vibes to help the world and yourself in the process.

I cannot try to convince you no matter what. You seem very set in your ways. I would just like you to consider the option of a world without a set of beliefs that everyone has to follow or if they don't feel pressured into this viewpoint (Judaeo-Christian, WASP, media-driven dribble).

Open your eyes to your own reality. YOU HAVE THE POWER TO START AGAIN! It is within your own body, mind, and spirit to change your own reality if you so chose. I'm not going to get into the logistics now, but it is up to every single person here (namely ATS) to spread the word about the new Heaven and new Earth. You may have read it in Revelation and it is only now becoming realized.

Most people are fed up with their capitalistic materialistic lives. A lot of people are waking up to other ways of living and I happen to be one of them.

I am not asking you to join me in a commune where we can all sip the cool aid. NO! I am asking you to open your heart to other possibilities and not be so quick to judge!

I respect your opinion as I do with everyone else, no matter if I disagree with their thoughts or not. Remember, we all come from the same place so if I were to disrespect you, I'd only be hurting myself
. Now why would I want to shoot myself in the foot? I've done enough of that for a lifetime in the short time I've been here! Haha, ain't that a b...

Anyway, sorry to ramble on...

I hope this was enlightening, maybe one day you'll come back and read this thread and gain some understanding you weren't open to at this point?

Best of luck to all on their journey,

bs



posted on Feb, 27 2007 @ 01:53 PM
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this will end this.




I thought like you up until a few years ago. I have never thought of money being necessary, even as a little kid though.


thought like me how? since your implying something negative here. i would like to know what you are talking about.




People create their own realities, simple as that. We are what we think, eat, breathe, etc


i know. i was the first person in this thread to state that fact. when it seemed no one was acknowledging that.



Are you familiar with the idea in quantum physics where everything is at a singularity and also exists in a grid-like matrix across the universe? If you do subscribe to this kind of teaching, one would assume you practice "good" energy sessions where you send out vibes to help the world and yourself in the process


yes.
your again speaking about a subjective matter. there is no such thing as good or bad energy. just energy. im assuming by the way you quoted good, you are aware of the fact that good means something different to everyone. how many times do i have to state this fact.
no i do not practice "good" energy sessions. i practice my beliefs, and i focuss my intent to create my reality as i see fit. i do not get into the dogma of "energy", and "energy systems.



I cannot try to convince you no matter what. You seem very set in your ways. I would just like you to consider the option of a world without a set of beliefs that everyone has to follow or if they don't feel pressured into this viewpoint (Judaeo-Christian, WASP, media-driven dribble).


you can try, but its not that you cannot convince me because im a knuckle head not open to new points of views. its just that your view point is flawed in the fact that its blatantly bias to this one side of life. which is this new agey, lovey dovey, peace love, smile in the face of a man who wants to kill you, style of living. which i do not as a WHOLE believe in. i factor in many other aspects of life. i accept life, as much as i accept death. i accept giving life, as much as taking it away. although depending on the topic at hand, my degree to which side i lean towards will vary, but i do not shun all things away. there are some things i do shun, but that is still just MY way of living at the end of the day, not the universal way of living, and i accept the fact that people arent always gonna dig what i say. i dont give a damn.
i am set to an extent. im not a man who likes to flip flop all the time, but just because to an extent i am set in my ways, does not....
a)make my ways wrong
b)mean im not still open to new ideas that i may have never really considered
i do not fully accept your ideas, because they blatantly lack the flip side. you seem to only be wanting to be aware of one side of the coin. better yet, you seem to only wanna accept one side of the coin, but you are very aware of the flip. within yin is yang, within yang is yin. nothing is purely one thing. your in denial and not willing to accept the other "things" that can come from the flip side, that can be of some benefit. if i have to, i will give you examples to what i mean, if you do not understand.
a world without set beliefs? so you want a free world, where there is no right or wrong way to live. just a free world. free of worrying about money, free of having to follow social standards, free of having to breathe. just free. aaaaaaaaah, so sweet. i dont think you understand what your asking for. what your asking for is chaos
in the worst degree. a truly free world. from a philosophical stand point, what purpose would you have living in a world free of beliefs. taking one breath, one step, involves some sort of belief. you take a step because you believe thats how you walk, and thats how you cover ground. you breathe because you believe thats how you stay alive, how you clear your mind, ect.. to be continued.......



posted on Feb, 27 2007 @ 02:04 PM
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Yarcofin, you say that money is only a means of transferring one's labor.

Which takes more labor: to mine diamonds out of the earth, or to tell a group of people to mine them for you?

Which pays better?



posted on Feb, 27 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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even if you wanna go extreme. if you could fly. you would fly because you believe in how free it feels, or you believe you can get places faster. you say you understand what i have said before, but you blatantly dont, because you dont even understand the things you type. for you are contradicting yourself. me being set in my beliefs, i rarely do that. maybe you should set yourself more.



Open your eyes to your own reality. YOU HAVE THE POWER TO START AGAIN! It is within your own body, mind, and spirit to change your own reality if you so chose. I'm not going to get into the logistics now, but it is up to every single person here (namely ATS) to spread the word about the new Heaven and new Earth. You may have read it in Revelation and it is only now becoming realized


they are open. im looking at this computer screen.
i dont need to start again. your being condescending. typical of your kind i guess.
i know this
its up to all of us to spread this new word about heaven and the new earth? no, its up to those who believe to spread that word.
i dont read the bible. it would only be good enough to put my plate of hot wings on. although somethings in it are interesting
.



Most people are fed up with their capitalistic materialistic lives. A lot of people are waking up to other ways of living and I happen to be one of them


yes, most people are, but most people dont give a damn to live in your so called heaven on earth, or whatever. they dont mind waking up and working and paying bills. it gives alot of people a sense of purpose, whether they admit it or not, and that can be interpreted in many ways, good or bad. i will not label it though. if we could get the governments to stop lying, get politicians to tell the truth, get the govt, politicians, and big corporations to lend a helping hand, and not just dominate over us, then people would not mind doing what they do now. for some reason you assume that everyone wants to be like you. fly through the clouds, live for thousands of years, be loving to all things, ect.... nope, some people just wanna not get raped every month in taxes, not have the government waste our money on innane bullshyt, not have the people we trust lie to our face for the sake of being selfish, greedy, deceitful bastards, have a good paying job, have a child and a loving partner, a few weeks vacation, not pay out the butt for gas, not have to struggle because cost of living is too high, ect....i can list a lot.
your way of living is not everyone elses. accept it and move on dude. its actually quite sad that your pressed on others following you for you to be a leader. just lead.



I am not asking you to join me in a commune where we can all sip the cool aid. NO! I am asking you to open your heart to other possibilities and not be so quick to judge


your reason for posting, not to mention what you have been saying in this whole thread, is because you want me to join you in your journey or whatever. dont get all modest now. you want troops.
my heart is open to other possibilities. that has been the basis of all my replies. is that i dig what your saying, but i also dig what your not accepting. im accepting ideas from both sides of the coin, while you accept ideas from one.
i will judge. for if i didnt let people know of their faults, they wouldnt learn. people judge me, and i learn from it. im not always right. i accept that. some people need to be judged.



respect your opinion as I do with everyone else, no matter if I disagree with their thoughts or not. Remember, we all come from the same place so if I were to disrespect you, I'd only be hurting myself . Now why would I want to shoot myself in the foot? I've done enough of that for a lifetime in the short time I've been here! Haha, ain't that a b...


you can do you to homeboy. im just letting you know whatsup with the otherside of the river. ive been there

[edit on 27-2-2007 by jimmy1200]



posted on Feb, 27 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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done that with your way of thinking. it wasnt complete enough.



posted on Feb, 27 2007 @ 02:23 PM
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Jimmy i don't speak for everyone but for my self personally my words don't come from the bible or any other source of media on this planet. They come from with in my self and in no means am i following outside influences to find my self.

It is a natural process we all go through.

It's not about being superior it's about finding your true self and you have eternity to do so.

Jimmy i don't think i am superior to you and i am sure no one on this thread thinks they are superior to you. We are the same, we come from the same source.

Ego doesn't exist it's just another illusion that traps you in this reality and makes it harder for you to awake.

We all will.



posted on Jun, 16 2007 @ 06:29 PM
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Jim,

I have also been on the other side of the coin.

I recognize it as much as I shun it.

That does not make my reality or yours any less real.

I just happen to choose to be on this side.

I wish to take the positive side of things and hope for the best.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, maybe you're too pessimistic.

I can't really say.

This world is maya (illusion) and I have been struggling for a few years to change my ways.

I am still not the person I want to be. Every day is a struggle.

I have to change my way of thinking mid-thought. It is not always the easiest thing to do.

I try not to judge, but it does happen. As soon as I catch myself though, I stop it.

There is a difference between being judging and critical.

I have no problem with someone pointing out my flaws. Chances are I already am aware of them.

I have no problem either with you disagreeing with me.

I would like you to agree, but that does not mean I need you to enlist as under me.

I could honestly care less if you agree with me or not. That is not my purpose.

I am trying to open you to new possibilities, which unfortunately you seem to be closed off to.

You are me and I am you. Whether or not you wish to accept this fact is irrelevant.

We have come a long way from the Great Spirit. Our paths I'm sure have crossed before this life, although we both forgot each other. We are conversing for a reason and that is for each of us to learn from one another.

You have things to teach me just as much as I am here to teach you.

I eagerly await a response.

Thank you for keeping an open mind and heart.

(Just wanted to revive this thread as it seems relevant to my current dealings).

bs



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