The War In Iraq Was Worth This!!!

Fair enough, fair enough, I would never expect every everyone to think the same and agree to everything. I though it would be nice to bring to the people of ATS a vision of Iraq rarely seen.. that a little bit of good came from a military blunder.

Someone actually posting something positive about Iraq. Even if it was a blunder gone right! Now... Where is Agit8d? He usually posts the exact same thing in every post the contains the word Iraq.

I'll give you a WATs for this thread!

The Kurds could all drop dead and people here in America could care less.What's worth the war is locking up the oil and keeping it from the French, Brits and Ruskies.

Thats true, I never said a thing about our government caring about anyone. If America truly was seeking democratic allies in the region, they would divide Kurdistan away from the rest of Iraq, allow it to become a independent nation and protect it. However because the oil fields would be divided thus harder to get to especially from a land locked state, we have no desire to help anyone.

The issue of Kurdistan should honestly affirm to anyone who has doubts that our government went to war for its own interest, had no plans to liberate anyone and had no plans to install peace and stability. However, the troops on the ground think they went to war to liberate, and for national security reasons, or else they have no idea why they are there.. which I honestly have NO clue on the actual intentions our government is moving this war around upon.. The war is new in its kind.. it follows no orderly pattern, no goals, no reason to start it, no reason to finish it, the economy is so messed up and backwards its not even funny. Though that is the only thing I can see we even went to war.. was to keep our economy artificially up in appearance or to give the illusion all is fine while the working class, especially blue collar workers, are getting hammered economically. We have saving debts unseen since the great depression, inflation rising faster then normal, low unemployment but low paying jobs, triple digit percentage increases for corporate profits and single digit increases for worker pay.

I would say we went to war because we needed to stop the rise of the European market, hence the mass hostility we received from nations like Germany, France, Spain, Italy... but who didn't object? .. Why, it was the ONLY nation that DOES NOT use the Euro.. but instead the Pound, another rival to the Euro. While the Euro was increasing in strength and Saddam switched to using Euros and not Dollars inflicting potential damage to our monetary system we went to war and reset the status quo. If oil where to be sold in the Euro and not the Dollar then we would have nothing left to sell.. because we don't produce much in this country, we consume, what we can sell is our currency, and for our currency we get benefits and resources. If every one needs our Dollar then we are on top, and we can continue buying cheap plastic Chinese crap.. but if our Dollar is not needed and every one switches it to another currency we have TO MUCH Dollars floating around, which would cause a mass spike in inflation, making the dollar weak so that it can no longer continue its competitive ability against other currencies.

But there can be good sides to war, the Kurdish cause in my opinion is a great outcome, a people liberated. You could also say going to war to keep the economy working is as well, but that is just a hypothesis and not theory, because of the shadowy workings of the government its just to hard to say why we went there. But you right, I would say the war was to keep economic benefits from reaching the hands of European Union members.

Tis a good thread Rock but I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's killed would probally disagree. I think its rather disegeneuos to say America went into Iraq to improve the Lot of the Kurds or free the Kuwaiti's.

How do you morally balance a Despot killing thousands of people and a liberator killing hundreds of thousands. Is that not like saying I shot my kids so they would not starve to death. How do you have a heart for Kurdish people, but what about all those who died in Iraq because of sanctions imposed by the West.

Lets face it we all know why America went to the ME and it had nothing to do with the Kurds or anyone else. The ME is America's life line, stop the oil and America stops, coupled with the zionists wanting everyArab/Muslim dead.

If the Israelis' were not in the ME and there was no oil in the ME America would not give a toss to what was going on. There are plenty of despots in Africa, I dont see any moves there on behalf of the US Goverment.

America only gets involved when its interests are threatened. But that is a fact of life unfortunately, it was the same with us and all those who have trod the path of superiority.

We have removed one tyrant and replaced it with a Monster with an appetite to match.

The dead are dead, how they became dead does not comfort them for they are dead. They died at the hands of a murderer, a despot, a liberator, but they are dead, there is no comfort for the dead.

Look at it this way Rockpuck:

Despite the US's intentions in Iraq with regards to the Kurds and any independent Kurdistan, the Kurds themselves want an independent Kurdistan.

Could the fall of Saddam left the Kurds strong enough to declare independence?

Yes

Is the US in a position after the liberation of Iraq to stop the Kurdish declaration of an independent state?

No.

I think there is no way the US could stop the Kurds, outside of using diplomacy, war in this cause (to me) would not make sense.

So here we go:

Your map indicates the Kurds live primarily in three countries: Iraq, Turkey and Iran. Here is my quick assesment.

The Kurds will attempt to declare themselves a fully independent democratic nation regardless of the US's intentions. There are a few factors in this equation.

1) Turkey will have no intention to stop the Kurds from annexing land currently part of Turkey. Why? Oil pipelines and admission into the EU.

2) Iraq cannot do anything about this, Iraq is essential a puppet whose hand is the United States

3) Iran. How bout this, since the fall of Saddam, Iran has been making the rounds in the news: terrorist, hollocaust, oil, nukes and everything else. Why? Is it possible that out of the three countries that Iran is the only capable of attacking the Kurds if they annex land? Or does the US want tension to boil over in Iran to prevent the Kurdish movement?

Take it for what it is worth, there will be war if the Kurds go independent, formally. No way in hell a chunk of land that size will be lost without a fight.

Magicmushroom

Tis a good thread Rock but I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's killed would probally disagree. I think its rather disegeneuos to say America went into Iraq to improve the Lot of the Kurds or free the Kuwaiti's.

How do you morally balance a Despot killing thousands of people and a liberator killing hundreds of thousands. Is that not like saying I shot my kids so they would not starve to death. How do you have a heart for Kurdish people, but what about all those who died in Iraq because of sanctions imposed by the West.

Ask the hundreds of thousands? To my knowledge, and I stick only by official reports, the number lies anywhere around 70-110 thousand or so. If I where to ask a Sunni I have no doubt they would miss Saddam, that when they had power and control.. if I ask a Shia I am certain they are happy the playing field is leveled regardless of how many people died.. if I where to ask Kurd they would be delighted Saddam is gone, and they do not suffer the bloodshed..... the attacks are reported on the news every day, do you say there may be a conspiracy with the news outlets and the government, a government they are critical of? If we see on the news 150 died in a bombing, to make your numbers work there would have to be a bombing that killed thousands more that is not reported? .. does not make sense. Aside from all of that Saddam's estimated death toll is around 1 - 1.5 million dead. Not to mention all his men who did in gulf 1, and the Iran Iraq war.