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posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic

Originally posted by wildcat
The British were busy fighting other nations besides France during the time of our revolution. My memory is bad, but I think it was the Seven Years War. Great Britian couldn't of focused all their forces at the time so it seems like we did have luck. Maybe the founding fathers purposly declared independance when GB was busy.


Which one of the seven years wars? There were three of them.

1563–1570 war - Nordic Seven Years' War
1592–1598 war - Korea
1754 and 1756–1763 - America

Mind you, the American Revolution was 1775-1783, well after the seven years war.


Then I was wrong

Great Britian was in economic trouble at the time of our revolution. We being a part of the British Empire had to pay our share of the debt so we were taxed. We didn't like it, and we were looked down at by Europe.

Great Britain had freedoms before we did. And most of our constitution comes from French philosophe ideas.


[edit on 9-3-2007 by wildcat]




posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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If you posted some sources perhaps we could argue about that.

I'll start with one for ya....


WASHINGTON - A federal appeals court overturned the District of Columbia's long-standing handgun ban Friday, rejecting the city's argument that the Second Amendment right to bear arms applied only to militias


news.yahoo.com...



FBI Director Robert Mueller took responsibility Friday for problems over how the FBI used so-called national security letters to obtain sensitive information during terrorism investigations.

www.myfoxdc.com...

There are 2 in the last 2 days. Guess the rundown isn't as bad as you would like.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic

Originally posted by Starvald
In 1778 the french "assisted" the to be United States in their quest. The french did not win it for them. They "helped". Yes, as history has depicted, the assistance from the french was crucial, but that's not the point I was trying to make.


[edit on 3/9/2007 by Infoholic]



They only helped because they hated the British, unlike American propaganda history books say. If the French didn't hate the British, then they would of never helped.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Starvald
Yeah its fair enough to have it as an ideal, but it isnt practiced and your goverment has slippd into a tyranny, great load of good it did you. Theres also the fact that despite having all these lofty ideologys in your constitution, your constitution is routinely ignored and violated by your goverment. So yes, it is severly antiqauted and completely void.


1 - Our government hasn't slipped into a tyranny... yet. And it never will, as long as we, the United States of America have our 2nd Amendment right to possess and bear arms. - So, yes, great load it's done us.

2 - Ignored/challenged/violated by our government does not even remotely make it antiquated or void. :shk:



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by wildcat
They only helped because they hated the British, unlike American propaganda history books say. If the French didn't hate the British, then they would of never helped.


That is some poorly disguised anti American sentiment.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:41 PM
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They helpd because they controlld most of the American continent but basicaly any excuse to screw us they would take. But if France did like us then there would have not been an issue concerning taxes so the rebellion would never have happend anyway.


"Our government hasn't slipped into a tyranny"

Yes it has. You goverment employs cruel and arbitrary exercise of power or control, that is a tyranny. Right and even then, say you personaly believe your goverment isnt a tyranny, thats fine, thats up to you how does the right to bear arms stop your goverment from from slipping in to a tyranny exactly? you think people would actually rise up against your goverment?, lol.

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Starvald]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:45 PM
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No, they helped because they hate the British.

How do I know this? Years ago, I took a class on European History.

So anyone who thinks the French helped for any reason other than hating the British, you learned from an American book.

So please, if you wish to argue with me, learn your history.


Infoholic, what you just said is probably the most ignorant and narrowminded statement you have said so far. Learn from zero point of view, and not just only American.



[edit on 9-3-2007 by wildcat]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by Starvald
They helpd because they controlld most of the American continent but basicaly any excuse to screw us they would take.

Who controlled most of the American continent? The French?
good one.


Originally posted by Starvald
Yes it has. You goverment employs cruel and arbitrary exercise of power or control, that is a tyranny. Right and even then, say you personaly believe your goverment isnt a tyranny, thats fine, thats up to you how does the right to bear arms stop your goverment from from slipping in to a tyranny exactly? you think people would actually rise up against your goverment?, lol.


No, our government has not slipped into a tyranny. :shk: Please get educated. The federal military is solely under the direction of the President, and it's been proven time and time again (incorrectly or not)... anything that is a "possession" of the Federal Government is not covered by the Constitution.

Yes, I whole heartedly believe that the people would rise up against the government. And no, that's not a laughing matter.


"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" (Noah Webster in `An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution', 1787, a pamphlet aimed at swaying Pennsylvania toward ratification, in Paul Ford, ed., Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States, at 56(New York, 1888))
source



That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
source


As far as the government employing cruel and arbitrary exercise of power or control, that is not tyranny.

Tyranny is an oppressive power to the people... not in the means of abusive interrogation techniques. That is another subject.


Now then, can we get back on topic?



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:00 PM
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"Who controlled most of the American continent? The French? good one"

you know what the Louisiana Purchase was yeah?


“As far as the government employing cruel and arbitrary exercise of power or control, that is not tyranny”

It is according to most dictionaries

"Yes, I whole heartedly believe that the people would rise up against the government"

then why ahvent they?, your goverment is un constitutional.


And wildcat your just a muppet mate, no international empire in the history of mankind has ever went to war just because they hate someone, to think they did not do it to help weaken Britain as an economic adversary is naive at best.


[edit on 9-3-2007 by Starvald]

[edit on 9-3-2007 by Starvald]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:03 PM
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Louis XIV went to war with the lowlands because they made a joke about their cheese blocking his nickname, the moon king.

So don't tell me war isn't declared because of hate.


The French lost most of their territory in North America before the American Revolution.


[edit on 9-3-2007 by wildcat]

[edit on 9-3-2007 by wildcat]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:11 PM
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LOL Wildcat the Sun King had to control fluctuating land prices and subjegate the Netherlands, he also was # scared of William. Why dont you actually read real history.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Starvald
you know what the Louisiana Purchase was yeah?

Yes, I do. The Louisiana Purchase was a purchase of land from the French in 1803. So, the french assisted in the American Revolution in the time frame of 1775 - 1783 as to protect their investment? The one they sold to the US 20 years later?


Originally posted by Starvald
It is according to most dictionaries

Then provide a link as I have.



Originally posted by Starvald
then why ahvent they?, your goverment is un constitutional.

The government may be, the people are not. Make sure you get a good seat. It'll be a wonderful show when it happens.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by wildcat
The French lost most of their territory in North America before the American Revolution.


Can you point out exactly which "other" territories you might be referencing?





posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:18 PM
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"So, the french assisted in the American Revolution in the time frame of 1775 - 1783 as to protect their investment?"

Yes, wouldnt you say selling it at proffit 20 years on after having denied Britain the chance to take it off them[which britain would have done] was a pretty good bit of busines?

tyranny as stated by the Oxford English dictionary and the Collins English dictionary

www.askoxford.com...
www.collins.co.uk...



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Starvald
LOL Wildcat the Sun King had to control fluctuating land prices and subjegate the Netherlands, he also was # scared of William. Why dont you actually read real history.


Like I said, my memory is bad. The Sun King went to war with the lowlands more than once.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic

Originally posted by wildcat
The French lost most of their territory in North America before the American Revolution.


Can you point out exactly which "other" territories you might be referencing?







I said most territory to GB which includes Canada, not all

[edit on 9-3-2007 by wildcat]



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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"Like I said, my memory is bad. The Sun King went to war with the lowlands more than once"

Please give me a source that backs up this alternate theory to French expansionism under louis that explains how he went to war based on derogatory jokes.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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Well if I had my book I would, but because it was so long ago, it has probably already been replaced.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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Well if I had my book I would, but because it was so long ago, it has probably already been replaced.



posted on Mar, 9 2007 @ 06:45 PM
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Now aren't we way off topic? Mirthful Me the mod may close this thread if we don't get back on track.





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